humidity not necessary

[Juan V]

I think I got it.
So i've currently wetted the whole place just to see how they behave. The air is relatively dry (30%) but the soil is pretty much wet. I've noticed that what they do now is they dig themselves up a few cms (less than 1 inch) where they can find the wet humid soil and they just stare through the glass with their eyes open. So they have an upper layer of soil that isn't really that wet, and if they dig themselves a little they can find all the water and humidity they might need. Humidity in the air is still roughly around 30% - 40% but the humidity they need is found in the soil. They didn't usually dig themselves up, but now I see this new behaviour. Their "skin" (yes I know they don't have skin, but i'm refering to everything that's not the shell) looks now way more hydrated than how it used to, which gives them an overall healthier look . They haven't lost nor gained any apetite .

I think this formula might work after all. I was thinking on buying a humidifier, but I think in tortoises it's better if heat comes from above and water and moisture comes from bellow, so I 'll just keep soaking the soil with water and see how it goes.

 

[Tom]

They do have skin. You got it right. Scales too.

Enjoy your experiments and learning. After raising a few dozen more, you will have a much better idea about which methods will produce which results. You have a bit of a unique enclosure there, so I am curious how this will turn out for you and your tortoises.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of this:
You have no basking spot, but are maintaining over all ambient temps throughout the entire enclosure, right?
The top on that enclosure is closed, right? Glass top?

 

[Zeko]

I think this formula might work after all. I was thinking on buying a humidifier, but I think in tortoises it's better if heat comes from above and water and moisture comes from bellow, so I 'll just keep soaking the soil with water and see how it goes.

Rain rain go away, flood me from the other way!

 

[Juan V]

They do have skin. You got it right. Scales too.

Enjoy your experiments and learning. After raising a few dozen more, you will have a much better idea about which methods will produce which results. You have a bit of a unique enclosure there, so I am curious how this will turn out for you and your tortoises.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of this:
You have no basking spot, but are maintaining over all ambient temps throughout the entire enclosure, right?
The top on that enclosure is closed, right? Glass top?

The basking spot is the heat bulb. I followed your advice and replaced the 75W infra red lightbulb with a 150W ceramic lightbulb that doesnt emmit light. The UVA/B comes from another T8 tube special for reptiles. it's a 5.0 UVA/B. Some books recommend 10 for this species, but we both know that is too much UVA/B for sulcata hatchlings, that spend most of their time underground.

They technically dont have a basking spot like the one they would have with a power sun bulb or a combined heat UVA/B bulb, but sun comes out every morning, and even though the rays don't get through the glass, the sunlight does, and they bask every morning , just that the UVA/B comes mainly from the tube, and very little from the sun (since the UVA have to cross 2 glasses). They bask a lot, but normally under the heat bulb, Since the tube is near the heat bulb, I think the basking spot is optimal.

About sun, UVA/B and glasses, I did my own research. I have a friend who's sister has lupus (that rare illness that Dr House is always quoting) . The people affected by this sickness are extremely susceptible to sun burns, and since spain is ... well let's say quite sunny.... she used to have an UVA meter. UVB don't penetrate anything. If you put a glass they won't penetrate. UVA do, but roughly about 50% of them for each glass.you put through. My windows are double glassed, plus the glass of the terrarium. That means that roughly only 10 .to 15% of the UVA from the sun will get to the torts. Which is something, but not enough (hence, the tube).

About your last question, the top of the enclosure is closed. When you stick your hand inside you can clearly feel the extra moisture, and thanks to the greenhouse effect , sun keeps them warm in the morning so the heatlamp doesn't have to turn on (my terrarium is eco friendly!!). In summer however, if I closed the terrarium up, temps would easily reach 50ºC, so I let the lid open so the heat is not trapped in. I figured out a way to connect a small ventilator to lower the temps, but I saw that taking the lid away just solved the problem all together.

I don't soak them every day, i don't mantain stable humidities (I rather have them alter from day to day) but I do spray water on them an add some water to the soil so it creates moisture every now and then (2 or 3 days). I don't think the relative humidity should be 80%, but it is true that the torts should be able to get to that humidity if they wished it. Before i added water , they soaked a lot, A LOT. Now I just see that whenever they want to feel humid they dig themselves a bit. Their behaviour is really good.

As far as mixing species. At the moment I can see they really get along very well. As I wrote in the other post, i can see they do have some kind of "social" connection and they get on very well (they are still hatchlings). However i am monitoring this situation and if things ever got bad i will separate them.

This is quite recent, but i'm starting to see a some improvement in them, and it feels like they are healthier. I have to thank you Tom, for your great advice. You've really made a difference in them.

Happy new year

 

[franz_see]

I think I got it.
So i've currently wetted the whole place just to see how they behave. The air is relatively dry (30%) but the soil is pretty much wet. I've noticed that what they do now is they dig themselves up a few cms (less than 1 inch) where they can find the wet humid soil and they just stare through the glass with their eyes open. So they have an upper layer of soil that isn't really that wet, and if they dig themselves a little they can find all the water and humidity they might need. Humidity in the air is still roughly around 30% - 40% but the humidity they need is found in the soil. They didn't usually dig themselves up, but now I see this new behaviour. Their "skin" (yes I know they don't have skin, but i'm refering to everything that's not the shell) looks now way more hydrated than how it used to, which gives them an overall healthier look . They haven't lost nor gained any apetite .

I think this formula might work after all. I was thinking on buying a humidifier, but I think in tortoises it's better if heat comes from above and water and moisture comes from bellow, so I 'll just keep soaking the soil with water and see how it goes.

Interesting. My sulcata hatchlings does the same. When the substrate is damp, they want to dig through it. Don't remember though whether the temp was low or high when they did it. I might reintroduce a damp place to see if they'll repeat. My enclosure has 30c on one end and 40c on the other end. Let's see where they dig

One main difference though between our setup is that mine is always at 99% humidity (if my hygrometer is correct). So they don't really have to dig to get the humidity that they need. Maybe they were just trying cool down (maybe it was hot that day), or maybe they were just playing around

 

[Tom]

They also dig down for cover and security. It makes them feel less exposed to predators. Might have nothing to do with temperature, moisture or humidity.

 

[Juan V]

Great, apparently the bulb I bought is not working properly , I need to return it and get another one. frack!

 

[Yvonne G]

It has been very rewarding to read this whole thread and be able to see a new-to-the-Forum person change his ideas and tortoise-keeping habits. So many times new members fight us and argue, but Juan, your tortoise is going to thank you for his new and better care.

 

[Juan V]

It has been very rewarding to read this whole thread and be able to see a new-to-the-Forum person change his ideas and tortoise-keeping habits. So many times new members fight us and argue, but Juan, your tortoise is going to thank you for his new and better care.

Meh, I'm not experienced enough to tell others what to do in tortoise caring. I do trust all of your advice because they've been heavily explained and they all seem quite logical.

I'm actually the kind of guy that always responds to advice with questions and "whys" and "hows". I don't like it when someone just tells me what to do without reasoning why should you do it.

Many people just write down what they've read and they keep saying things like "this has been done this way for a loong time and it works so stick to it". But that's not the way I like to do it. I like things explained rationally and logically, i like to think about the stuff i'm doing. I've always been told that sulcatas should be in dry environments because... well, they are used to living in arid conditions. It seemed logic and I followed that advice. After speaking with many of the users here and after having some very interesting discussions I've come to realize that sulcatas, as well as pretty much any other tortoise, should be kept in more humid environments. Maybe people associate "Africa" with "arid desert" and it's not at all like that.

 

[Juan V]

So I've run into another problem. I bought a 150W lightbulb BUT that seems to be too powerful for my raspberry pi setting. The whole circuit just "shuts down" after eight or nine hours. And i have to plug/unplug the electric relay so the whole thing starts working again. This does not happen with my 75W bulb. I fear 75W might not be enough, but i've come to realize it keeps the whole thing between 28ºC and 31ºC (82F and 88F) easily so atm it doesn't look as if I really need that extra power. I'm guessing the coldest part of the terrarium might be down to 25ºC (77F) or 24ºC, but I really think that's OK.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

A low of 77F is still ok. I let my humid tort house drop to 77F before the thermostat kicks on the heater. Just watch that the temps aren't dropping into the mid and especially low 70s.
A friendly reminder: now that you've increased the enclosure's moisture, dropping into lower temps will subject your tortoises to RIs.

 

[petrovdsf]

I have a 4 year old male sulcata, who prefers to sleep in a cooler place at night rather than his house which is kept at a constant temp.
I just let him decide. He is perfectly healthy

 

[Juan V]

the guy looks awesome!!