humidity not necessary

Juan V

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I've been reading (as something general) in these forums that young sulcatas should be kept in humid environments. I think this is a bad Idea. Yes it is true that they are born during the rainy season but the rainy season only lasts about 1 month and most of that time they spend it inside the egg (while processing that bag of food i don't know the english word for) or struggling to get out of the egg or hiding somewhere.

The other 10 months of the year tend to be quite arid and with low water.

Depending on where you plan to grow them i'd suggest not to keep them in humid environments, but the total oposite. Relatively Warm and with humidity values never exceeding 35%.

Yes, it is true, humidity is something good for tortoises. It avoids pyramidism , it's healthy for them. But i'd strongly suggest not to oversoak nor overexpose young torts to these kind of climates unless you really go pro on them (and I mean pro as in real pro, with separate boxes for eath one and monitoring conditions for each box, gtiving them sun and so on...).

Young torts are not smart. They will spend more time than the adequate on the wrong humid part. They will easily catch a cold or mucus which may lead to more infectious and or potentially dangerous illnessess.

Young Torts can perfectly be kept in dry environments as well as humid environments. They are designed to withstand both humidity and aridness. But even though they spend most of their time hiding under rocks or in humider conditions. These conditions tend not to be so humid as they might look like throughout the year. However, for us normal householders, (and here is the key) mimicking humid conditions they would be safe on is much harder than mimicking arid conditions.

In my opinion, what I do with mine. I tend to keep them in relatively arid conditions. They also have a small plate with water where they can soak themselves whenever they feel the need (and trust me, they do).

In my setup, I used an IKEA detolf glass cabinet, flipped it horizontally, add a mixture of sand and earth and boom. The excellent terrarium for just under 50 usd.
detolf-glass-door-cabinet-brown__72928_PE189178_S4.JPG

humidity is kept normally at around 30%. Which is what I normally get anywhere around my town (Valencia, Spain) right next to the mediterranean.
I keep control of everything using a Raspberry Pi (a micro computer that costs around 35 usd) connected to a thermal sensor that activates a heat lamp whenever temperature goes bellow 20ºC (which is roughly 70ºF) (an easy formula to convert Farenheit to Celcius is subtract 30 and then divide by 2). (you can also use google).

The raspberry pi also hosts a web server that displays the information in real time. You can access it here -> http://troindx.noip.me/
that webpage is just my small terrarium controller displaying humidity and temperature values (everything is in Spanish cos... well.. i'm Spanish)

anyways,
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Juan, and welcome to the Forum!

We have many, many examples of pyramided tortoises raised the way you suggest, and many many examples of smooth tortoises raised the way Tom suggests.

I'll take our own research over your post anyday.
 

Levi the Leopard

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Before I raised leopards, I looked at the results from different methods. I liked, no LOVED the results from a wet/ humid method. So that's what I did.
I am very glad I raised mine with adequate moisture and I always recommend others do the same.

I've seen a very small handful of smooth shells in torts that aren't raised in high humidity but they have something in common...Not being raised under hot, dying light bulbs.

Also, when mentioning their native climate, be sure to gauge temps/ RH levels from the areas they actually hang out in (like burrowd) vs. ground ambient temps etc.
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

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Hello Juan welcome to the TFO from AZ, USA . You'll have to show me more info. But I worry about the sand don't you worry that they ( torts ) will eat the sand ?
 

Juan V

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whenever I've tried to raise any tortoise in humid conditions, mucus has appeared on their nostrils and I quickly moved them back to the more arid landscape. Bear in mind the humidity i'm talking about is roughly around 30% - 35% , which is drier than what you suggest, but not as arid as a being raised under hot dying light bulbs.
 

Abdulla6169

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whenever I've tried to raise any tortoise in humid conditions, mucus has appeared on their nostrils and I quickly moved them back to the more arid landscape. Bear in mind the humidity i'm talking about is roughly around 30% - 35% , which is drier than what you suggest, but not as arid as a being raised under hot dying light bulbs.
What were your lows when they were in humid conditions?
 

zenoandthetortoise

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Yes, it is true, humidity is something good for tortoises. It avoids pyramidism , it's healthy for them. But i'd strongly suggest not to oversoak nor overexpose young torts to these kind of climates unless you really go pro on them (and I mean pro as in real pro, with separate boxes for eath one and monitoring conditions for each box, gtiving them sun and so ,

I'd strongly suggest you go pro, real pro, with the separate boxes, monitoring of conditions and sun you mentioned. Also the humidity that, as you say, is good for them.
 

Juan V

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What were your lows when they were in humid conditions?
i'd say my low temperatures (if you mean low temps) would be around 20ºC at night, which would roughly be around 69ºF . And in day time the temps would roughly be around 30ºC during the morning. and 26ºC or so during the afternoon.
 

Abdulla6169

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i'd say my low temperatures (if you mean low temps) would be around 20ºC at night, which would roughly be around 69ºF . And in day time the temps would roughly be around 30ºC during the morning. and 26ºC or so during the afternoon.
The lows with high humidity must be 80 F (26.6 C, ~27 C). If they are not your tortoises will become sick. That's why your tortoises developed mucus when they previously had high humidity. Follow the care sheet to the letter, then you will receive results.
 

Juan V

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i'm about to start a new thread which I'll post here to present my enclosure. I've always been told that low humidity is good for sulcatas.

My spanish colleagues have always told me about low humidity temperatures in this kind of species, whereas for other species such as Testudo Graeca or Testudo Hermani (which are quite common to see around here) humidity values should be higher.

I read in http://ojaisulcataproject.org/juveniles.html#humid , a webpage by some guy that knows a lot about tortoises and that has been taking care of quite a big pack, and ever since i've followed his advice, my torts seem way more healthy.

I'm quoting exactly from that site, when talking about juvenile sulcatas

Here is another common recommendation: The tortoise needs high humidity, in the 80 to 90% range. This is wrong and unnatural.
 

tortadise

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Interesting website. Any animal (especially tortoises) set up properly in a naturalistic manor will thrive. But within the native range if Sulcata they are rarely exposed to limited humidity and most certainly not arid. Keep in mind geographically there range is the southern regions of Mali, Sudan, Central African Republic etc... Where as the northern regions in those nations is desert. I live in Texas and can find sand, cactus deserts, but can also find marshes, mountains and tropics. But generally speaking most everyone has the mental image of Texas being a desert. When it's not same goes for sulcatas, even Africa as a whole. Misconception can lead to misappropriated husbandry. I a drop in humidity and temps is natural and effect yes. I don't keep any specimens at a constant humidity but rather a increased and decreased level depending on time, temperatures and species. Anyways welcome to the forum.
 

Juan V

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I'm keeping mine in a terrarium until they get big enough and their shells get strong enough to leave them in my home in the countryside, where they'll have plenty of space to walk around as well as all the vegetation they might need.
 

Yvonne G

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whenever I've tried to raise any tortoise in humid conditions, mucus has appeared on their nostrils and I quickly moved them back to the more arid landscape. Bear in mind the humidity i'm talking about is roughly around 30% - 35% , which is drier than what you suggest, but not as arid as a being raised under hot dying light bulbs.

That might be because you've not had it warm enough. Humidity with a cooler habitat will always cause a respiratory infection.
 

Yvonne G

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i'd say my low temperatures (if you mean low temps) would be around 20ºC at night, which would roughly be around 69ºF . And in day time the temps would roughly be around 30ºC during the morning. and 26ºC or so during the afternoon.


See? That's much too cool to be healthy.
 

Abdulla6169

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~"Do not overfeed your tortoise; overfeeding can be a big part of the pyramiding problem. Feeding every other day is fine."
No scientific research supports this claim; multiple observations made provide us with enough evidence to conclude it is not the contributing factor. Sulcatas are grazing animals. In the wild, sulcatas can graze freely without restrictions.
~"I find no scientific research to support the idea that soaking the plastron really does anything to stop pyramiding."
I can't find any scientific research that says keeping tortoises in a dry conditions is good.
~"If you must have one or more of these majestic tortoises, please do your homework. Find out as much as you can about their natural habitat in sub-Saharan Africa, including their natural foods, temperatures and humidity levels."
The term "Sub-Saharan Africa" is too broad, it includes regions that don't even have tortoises. The author of this work should use the term "Sahel".
~"Yes, they do need some humidity. Field research indicates that 45 to 50% is typical of levels in the wild."
Wrong, we cannot assume their "typical" levels in the wild. We must conduct research in the areas in which these tortoises live in. Most of the time sulcatas live in their under-ground burrows. The author has not provided any research that gives us this information. It would be wrong and cruel not to replicate the conditions in which they spend most of their time.
6- "Soaking is an unnatural, artificial solution to an unnatural, artificial problem caused by unnatural, artificial husbandry and habitat! In fact, this may well be a contributing factor to pyramiding. "
No evidence supports this outrageous claim.
7-"What does happen frequently is that the animal defecates in the water when soaking. If this happens several times a day or several times a week, you are interfering with the animal’s natural digestive transit time. The food is passing through the gut too quickly. Bad husbandry hinders the fermentation time needed to obtain the ultimate value of all the nutrients."
This isn't very helpful information. It makes us ask the question: how long does it ingested food to be digested? Does soaking really cause nutritional value to be lost? Gopherus agassizii urinates and defecates during rainfall (it drinks water during this time). Why doesn't it have gastrointestinal issues?

I will ask you this question: In the wild, they face circumstances in which their environments are very wet and humid. If we prohibit them from facing these circumstances, isn't that cruel, artificial, unnatural, and unusual?
 

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