I have a 10 month tortoise, i'm afraid he's sick...

[chandlerledray]

My sulcata Peanut is acting very strange lately, he's not eating much and sleeps all the time, probably 80% of the day. I took Franklin, the bigger one in the picture, to the vet's because when he was Peanuts age he was going through the same exact thing. The vet said it was because he didn't have enough water and was dehydrated. They gave him some shots that I had to give him for a while, he got better. The only difference is Peanut has his eyes closed 95 % of the day, even when he's walking around. I soak him in warm water daily. I couldn't even tell you the last time I saw him eat..It's really starting to scare me. Compared to Frank who is active from the time he wakes up in the morning until the time he crawls in his log at night time, Peanut doesn't even do anything...Hope someone can help. :/

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/fluff4/IMG_4294.jpg
Peanut is the one in the middle, Franklin is the bigger one.

 

[Kayti]

I'm sorry your torts are having health issues. If you can post pictures of your set up, the experts here might be able to identify something that could be causing this.
Do you keep all your Sulcatas together? What kind of substrate do you use? What are you feeding? What temperature is your enclosure?

Is it possible for you to take this tortoise to the vet also?

 

[chandlerledray]

Well, there's only two of the tortoises now, the other little one in the picture isn't mine.
I don't know the type of gravel I use, I used to get the brown bark stuff, but I talked to someone at petco and they said I should get this grey tube like stuff I guess it's used for hamsters and stuff, but it's safe for them and if by any chance they eat it, it decomposes.
They eat a mix of salads, romaine, iceberg, field green, red cabbage, endive, and every so often banana. But Franklin seems to be the only one eating it, I never see Pea eating..
I'm not sure of the temperature of the enclosure, they have a flourescent light fixture as well as a heat lamp hanging above their enclosure. I know, being desert animals, they need a lot of heat. But I don't know how much heat is too much, or too little?
And what about their water?
I lost the number of the vet I took frank too, I'm going to try to find it somewhere so I can bring the little guy in..

Here's some pictures of the enclosure:
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/fluff4/IMG_1265.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/fluff4/IMG_1264.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/fluff4/IMG_1260.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/fluff4/IMG_1259.jpg

 

[Kayti]

I think the petco employee misled you when they told you to switch substrates. That looks like alfalfa pellets to me, which are really not suitable for tortoises. You need something that will hold moisture, like coconut husk, or even better, cypress mulch. Alfalfa, if that is alfalfa, is also really bad for tortoises if they ingest it, because it is actually very high in protein.
That said, I don't think your substrate is causing your little one to stop eating.

It's really important to have a temperature guage to accurately measure the temperature on the hot end and the cool end of your enclosure. Sulcatas should have a basking spot around 90 degrees, and a cooler side around 75 degrees. Low temperatures will cause some tortoises to stop eating, and higher temperatures will stress them, and possibly dehydrate them. Because you are using a tank, I would be especially concerned with reading temperature, because it's difficult to get a lot of air circulation in an aquarium. You can get pretty accurate high-reading temp gauges at most pet stores for under $4, I highly suggest getting one or two.

Are you soaking your tortoises regularly? A water bowl isn't really enough for a very young tortoise- they can get dehydrated really fast. I soak my young sulcata every day for about five minuets in room temperature water up to her chin. It stimulates them to poop, and mine are always hungry after a bath.

 

[chandlerledray]

I want to say thank you for your help in advance, it's helping me a lot.
Well, how do I go about the temperature ? Do I get one of those heat rocks they can sit on, or what?
ANd what about where they sleep, is that area suppose to be the 90 or 75 degree area?

Yes, I soak them daily, peanut just sits there and occasionally dips his head in the water.

And where can I purchase coconut husk, or cypress mulch?

 

[Candy]

No heat rocks for tortoises as they can be dangerous and get burns from them. I buy my mulch at Lowes or Home Depot. They usually will sleep under their basking light. One thing about the enclosure that you have them in is that if they can see out then they're going to try to go through it and sometimes they get sores on their noses. If you put some kind of paper about 6 inches up it will help them. I have a Cherryhead and not a Sulcata so I will stop there and let the ones that have Sulcata's come chime in. I think it would be helpful to find the number to your vet that you had taken Franklin to only because Peanut is so little you want to make sure he is really O.K. If you look on the home page you will find a thread of vets you might be able to use if you don't find the number. www.africantortoise.com Here's a site that can help you.

 

[Kayti]

I want to say thank you for your help in advance, it's helping me a lot.
Well, how do I go about the temperature ? Do I get one of those heat rocks they can sit on, or what?
ANd what about where they sleep, is that area suppose to be the 90 or 75 degree area?

Yes, I soak them daily, peanut just sits there and occasionally dips his head in the water.

And where can I purchase coconut husk, or cypress mulch?

Any pet store will have coconut husk, it comes in a brick usually, and you soak it to expand it. You can also get cypress at ace hardware, just ask them to order it for you. If you don't live near any pet stores, you can also buy both of these things online.

Heat rocks are bad! They produce uneven heat, and tortoises need to be heated from above. They evolved to burrow to avoid heat and bask to get heat, so a rock will do them no good.
A basking area is generally a separate area from where they sleep, but some keepers provide a warm hiding place, and another hiding place on the cool end. Your tank looks too small to do that, so for now I would just recommend getting a temperature gauge as soon as possible, so you can check if your tank is too hot or too cold.

Also, everything Candy said is good advice!

 

[chandlerledray]

I've never thought of having a covered cage, because I'm always so active with them. Franklin always "crawls" on the edge of the glass trying to get out, he loves being around people and stuff but I will definitely cover it up a little for them. Also, they sleep under little log things, is that alright? Are they getting enough heat being under there, or should being under the heat lamp in their logs give them enough heat?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

He is dehydrated and you need to change your substrate immediately. They need to live in an ambient humidity of 80%. They need a basking spot of 95 degrees or so because the torts metabolism needs to be 80 degrees or so. But first get them off that crappy substrate. At Petco you can get cypress mulch it might be called forest floor there. Your enclosure is alright but if you have a wire mesh top the UVB rays can't get thru it so get rid of the mesh. Get a thermometer so you can figure out what the temperature is, that's important. I'd feed them Spring Mix, get it in the produce section at bigger stores like Safeway or Winco. Then you can add those other foods to the Mix. Also add endive and kale or collards dark leafy stuff...If you make those 3 changes right away I'll bet he'll get better. Keep us posted and don't hesitate to ask questions...

 

[chandlerledray]

Oh that's right, I've used coconut husk, but it was really rather messy, it made them really dirty, is that normal, or okay for them?

I'll definitely get a temp gauge

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Oh that's right, I've used coconut husk, but it was really rather messy, it made them really dirty, is that normal, or okay for them?

I'll definitely get a temp gauge

No not coconut husks. Cypress mulch. It's just called forest floor on the bag, tortoises get dirty, they are burrowing animals who live in dirt.

 

[Kayti]

Oh that's right, I've used coconut husk, but it was really rather messy, it made them really dirty, is that normal, or okay for them?

I'll definitely get a temp gauge

Yes, messy is okay Cypress is less messy though, if it bugs you. I switched from coconut husk to cypress recently, and I think it's way better. It doesn't mold as easily, and it doesn't get all over them, but it still allows them to burrow.

But, top priority = temp gauge!

 

[Yvonne G]

Your substrate is compressed paper and not good for sulcatas. The cypress mulch is much better (Zoo Med - Forest Floor) because you can moisten it. This keeps their shells growing smoothly and not pyramided.

Also, your light is too high. The heat from the light isn't reaching the floor of the habitat. A cool tortoise won't eat. They need to be able to get their body temperature up to at least 80 degrees to digest their food.

In my opinion, you need two habitats or else a way bigger one. The size difference between the two sulcatas is too much for such a small habitat.

Put Pea by himself, warm him up (85 to 90 on one side of the habitat and 70-75 on the other side), soak him every day and put some antibiotic ointment on his eyes.

Let us know if this fixes his problem.

 

[TortieGal]

If he can't get his temp up to 80 degrees he can't digest his food! and won't eat.

 

[chandlerledray]

Thanks everyone! I hope all the new changes will help them

I think i'll go out tomorrow and get those things for them, and it peanut isn't better within a week, I'll take him to the vet. Maybe all he needed was some heat and better terrain, I sure hope so!

How can I get the temperature up? I have a heat lamp, but it doesn't seem like that much heat can come off of it?

Also, I know about the calcium that they need, and I sprinkle calcium powder over their food, but what about the UV light? Should I still keep that running ?

 

[Yvonne G]

How can I get the temperature up? I have a heat lamp, but it doesn't seem like that much heat can come off of it?

Also, I know about the calcium that they need, and I sprinkle calcium powder over their food, but what about the UV light? Should I still keep that running ?

Like I said above, your light is too high. The heat is all going up and not reaching the floor of the habitat. Yes you need the UV light. But if its a UV/heat light, then you don't need the other light.

 

[chandlerledray]

Okay that sounds good.

Also, what kind of anti-biotic ointment can I put on his eyes that wont hurt him? Will it help him open them up?

 

[-ryan-]

One of my recent russian tortoise hatchlings had similar symptoms for the first week or so after he hatched. It was dehydration. I was temporarily keeping him on paper towels with some hay and a heat lamp, so he was just not able to burrow (which is how they maintain their hydration). Once I put him on some coconut husk, misted the enclosure twice a day, and gave him a soak every other day for about 10 minutes at a time, it cleared up in days and he has been an eating machine ever since. I know this is a sulcata and not a russian, but it all applies. Also, those tortoises should be housed separately. You can make a great second enclosure for about $25-30 (lighting included!) with materials from your local home improvement store.

I would say don't worry about the antibiotic ointment right now. Fix the habitat and get that little guy hydrated. Just soaking isn't enough, because as soon as he's back in that beef jerky maker... I mean enclosure... He'll lose all of that hydration in minutes. Also, go to walmart, radio shack, home depot, wherever and get a digital thermometer that will give you an accurate readout, and place the thermometer (or probe, if it has one) underneath the basking lamp, then just outside of the beam of the basking lamp, then on the cool side. This will give you an accurate measurement of the temperatures throughout the enclosure. The dial thermometers can be over 10 degrees f off in either direction, and the stick on thermometers just don't work. Remember, you don't want to know the temperature of the back wall of the habitat, because that is not where the reptile will be basking.

Good luck! If it is a hydration issue and you make the necessary changes I am sure you will see results within days. In the meantime, find that vet's number and schedule an appointment. You can always cancel it if the tortoise improves. No tortoise will do well without the proper environmental support.

 

[chandlerledray]

Wow, that's great to hear the little one got better!!
Why should they be housed separately ? Just curious. And how can I make an enclosure by myself? Their in a tank now, and I am definitely considering upgrading their enclosure, I want more room for them.

 

[Yvonne G]

As I told you in my previous post, the one sulcata is too much bigger than Pea. They should be housed separately because Pea is too small to live with the bigger sulcata. Maybe a few years from now they can be together, but for now, Pea is too small to stick up for himself.