Idea for A New, Private Keeper-Ran Zoological Conservation Association

[pingu_slayer]

Hello all,

As I make my return to this amazing forum today, I was wondering if it would be a worthwhile investment to start an independent zoological conservation association in which many private keepers and breeders unite to preserve the various endangered species of our earth. In my proposal, there would be some private keepers doing the breeding they do best, while others establish zoological facilities that are NOT associated with the elitist tyrants who run most American zoos (mainly the AZA, but also the ZAA). I envision many studbooks to be made for various species, and my ultimate goal is for there to be a broad network of passionate conservationists breeding assurance colonies nationwide. Not just tortoises and turtles, but all kinds of animals in Creation. I also know everyone is tired of government and the big zoos dictating what we can and can't do. I, too, am tired of these tyrannical elitists, and this is also my method of countering these ruthless attacks on our freedoms as keepers.

However, this plan of mine is currently in the most alpha of alpha stages when it comes to development, and it is admittedly not perfect. I am highly interested in the feedback that the wonderful people of TFO has to offer, so I can not only improve this plan from a mere objective standpoint, but to also bring this dream closer to reality.

With Gratitude,
pingu_slayer

 

[Yvonne G]

A few folks have already started something similar - The Galapagos Tortoise Alliance.

 

[pingu_slayer]

Thanks for the response I have looked into them before. What they do is awesome

 

[wellington]

You might want to talk to @Markw84 or @tortadise

 

[Tom]

I share your assessment of the situation and your frustration.

I like the sound of your idea, but most of us are kind of doing this on our own, and we like that freedom. I don't see any benefit or incentive to joining up with your proposed organization. I feel like this is kind of what we are doing with the TTPG. We are all doing our own things and excelling at our own breeding projects, but we are all part of a group of like-minded individuals, that share interests and common goals and work to help each other out.

Come to the TTPG conference in Arizona this year in November. We can talk it out more and you can see what TTPG is all about.

 

[ryan57]

I would say the goal of these "elitist tyrants" and their rules is to reduce the commercialization of breeding and promote good things like a suitable habitat, etc. They have some legitimate concerns. That said, Tom just informed me of the legal workaround which is to not charge for exchanging different species among responsible keepers.

I draw this parallel - Although not regulated at all once the items are in the USA, saltwater coral and frag groups/forums operate in the same way. There is a flourishing barter system where people trade established coral fragments with the goal of spreading the diversity among as many responsible enthusiasts as possible. No money.

This would work for tortoise breeding (and all other types of animals) among responsible keepers and would negate the need for your proposed organization or worse yet, you skimming off a 6 or 7 figure salary from running said organization thus making you possibly one of the elitist tyrants. Let's be honest.

 

[Tom]

I would say the goal of these "elitist tyrants" and their rules is to reduce the commercialization of breeding and promote good things like a suitable habitat, etc. They have some legitimate concerns.

Based on what I have seen over the years, I disagree. Their goal is power and control, not helping the species. They feel like only they should have access to these animals, and regular people should not. Meanwhile their record is one of dismal failure due to all their bureaucracy, red tape, and regulations. Even if that zoo keeper genuinely cares about those animals, they still have to ask permission to do anything, are very limited on space and resources, and they have to clock out at 5 and go home whether they want to or not. Compare that to me and other private keepers. I can go tend to my animals 24/7 and I frequently do. Many a winter's night has been spent tending to a laying female on a cold winter night at 1 am. Its too hot to work outside mid day in summer, so I frequently do manual labor at the crack of dawn or after the sun goes down. I can spend any amount of money on ponds, shelters, landscaping, and I have acres of land to work with. I need no ones permission to do whatever I think will be best for the animals.

Almost all of the breeding success and innovation come from the private sector. When a zoo does have success, they are consulting with people in the private sector that know what they are doing.

The ESA was intended to help protect native American species. They are misusing it in a misguided attempt to help non-native species. I can understand limiting and restricting international shipping of some of these animals to protect the ones still in the wild, but restricting interstate movement of CBB foreign species here in the US only hurts the species. It makes no sense. It only makes sense if you are an animal rightist and don't think people should have these animals in the first place. Meanwhile, people like me are breeding endangered species by the dozen and doing our best to manage the captive populations.

Reducing commercialization leads to extinction. There are MANY examples of this. Peregrin falcons, Louisiana alligators, etc... Allowing dedicated enterprising humans to do what they do, leads to an abundance of those animals. Banning possession or commerce leads to a reduction of animals and the eventual death of the species.

 

[ryan57]

Based on what I have seen over the years, I disagree. Their goal is power and control, not helping the species. They feel like only they should have access to these animals, and regular people should not. Meanwhile their record is one of dismal failure due to all their bureaucracy, red tape, and regulations. Even if that zoo keeper genuinely cares about those animals, they still have to ask permission to do anything, are very limited on space and resources, and they have to clock out at 5 and go home whether they want to or not. Compare that to me and other private keepers. I can go tend to my animals 24/7 and I frequently do. Many a winter's night has been spent tending to a laying female on a cold winter night at 1 am. Its too hot to work outside mid day in summer, so I frequently do manual labor at the crack of dawn or after the sun goes down. I can spend any amount of money on ponds, shelters, landscaping, and I have acres of land to work with. I need no ones permission to do whatever I think will be best for the animals.

Almost all of the breeding success and innovation come from the private sector. When a zoo does have success, they are consulting with people in the private sector that know what they are doing.

The ESA was intended to help protect native American species. They are misusing it in a misguided attempt to help non-native species. I can understand limiting and restricting international shipping of some of these animals to protect the ones still in the wild, but restricting interstate movement of CBB foreign species here in the US only hurts the species. It makes no sense. It only makes sense if you are an animal rightist and don't think people should have these animals in the first place. Meanwhile, people like me are breeding endangered species by the dozen and doing our best to manage the captive populations.

Reducing commercialization leads to extinction. There are MANY examples of this. Peregrin falcons, Louisiana alligators, etc... Allowing dedicated enterprising humans to do what they do, leads to an abundance of those animals. Banning possession or commerce leads to a reduction of animals and the eventual death of the species.

That’s really sad then. People want power and control rather than being good stewards of the wealth of life on this planet. Makes no logical sense.

 

[Tom]

That’s really sad then. People want power and control rather than being good stewards of the wealth of life on this planet. Makes no logical sense.

This is a common problem that keep seeing with people... This makes no sense to you because you are a decent human being with nothing but good intentions, and you don't wish to control or exploit other people. You can't even comprehend the evil that lurks out there because it is so foreign to you. That is a good thing. I'm glad for you.