Impaction advice please!

T140140

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Aug 31, 2021
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Hi everyone,

I have a teeny little hermans (Norman) who has been impacted. First vet I went to was very calm, explained the situation and gave me lactulose (laxatives) and reptoboost for nourishment. Told me to bathe him and only feed him watery food with lactulose on it. If it hadn't cleared within two weeks to return. Unfortunately, I have moved in this time and when concerned Norman hadn't fully recovered I went to a different vets (I think Norman had only done 2 poos in two weeks). They charged a lot of money (three times as much as the first vets I visited), said it's one of the worse cases of impaction they've seen and sent me on my way (I have attached the X-Ray).
I came onto this forum two nights ago to look for advice, and put Norman in the bath for just under two hours yesterday like suggested on other threads. I was previously unaware of just how long they need to be soaked for. He pooed three times throughout the day (1 big 2 small) and I was so happy to see my little tort looking a lot better. He seems to have a fair bit more energy now. Today, he's only been pushing out tiny bits of moss and yet to have a proper poo (I was advised to buy moss and sand from the place I bought him from not knowing this was completely the wrong thing to buy -removed all of this from his table). Should I be concerned that he's not pooing today?
He's scheduled for another vet appointment, I'm not sure whether to take him back as I feel a bit dubious about the whole thing. If he was the worst case they've ever seen, why did they not help the poor baby then? They told me what I already knew, and sent me on my way with the extra suggestion of vibrating him twice a day as well.

Any advice on what I should do, he seems to be shifting some of it and he's eating daily? What else can the vet possibly offer me? Thanks so much for any help can't believe how incredibly helpful this forum is, wish I'd seen it right at the beginning.
 

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Mrs.Jennifer

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Welcome! I’m sorry you are joining under such troubling circumstances, but it’s great to hear you are seeing progress. Unfortunately you are experiencing what happens to a lot of new tortoise owners—bad advice and very few vets who can help (but charge you for the lack of knowledge).

I’m attaching the best and most up to date care sheet to help you on your journey with your little one:


I’m not an expert, but I’ll all on some who can help you more. Good luck!

@Yvonne G
@Tom
 

wellington

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I would wait on the vet visit. Keep doing what the first vet said and the long soaks. Make sure you soak in something big enough he can move around a lot and try to keep him moving a big part of the soak. As long as he is pooping then things are moving along. It may take a while for it all to pass thru. If he seems to start getting worse again then maybe take him back in.
 

Yvonne G

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I second what Wellington has said. Scrambling around in a tub of water, trying to escape, helps things move along in the digestive tract. You can also feed him wet foods, things that we don't normally feed them, just to get things moving. . . cucumber, watermelon, aloe vera, etc.
 

T140140

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Thank you so much for your responses can't tell you how much it's appreciated. I'll see how things go with him and hopefully some more will pass through over the coming days. I've cancelled the appointment for now and will request one if things go bad again. Fingers crossed, thank you again!
 

Tom

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Thank you so much for your responses can't tell you how much it's appreciated. I'll see how things go with him and hopefully some more will pass through over the coming days. I've cancelled the appointment for now and will request one if things go bad again. Fingers crossed, thank you again!
Good advice from all previous posters. What substrate is he on now?
 

TurtzInMyYard

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I would wait on the vet visit. Keep doing what the first vet said and the long soaks. Make sure you soak in something big enough he can move around a lot and try to keep him moving a big part of the soak. As long as he is pooping then things are moving along. It may take a while for it all to pass thru. If he seems to start getting worse again then maybe take him back in.
 

TurtzInMyYard

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Hi everyone,

I have a teeny little hermans (Norman) who has been impacted. First vet I went to was very calm, explained the situation and gave me lactulose (laxatives) and reptoboost for nourishment. Told me to bathe him and only feed him watery food with lactulose on it. If it hadn't cleared within two weeks to return. Unfortunately, I have moved in this time and when concerned Norman hadn't fully recovered I went to a different vets (I think Norman had only done 2 poos in two weeks). They charged a lot of money (three times as much as the first vets I visited), said it's one of the worse cases of impaction they've seen and sent me on my way (I have attached the X-Ray).
I came onto this forum two nights ago to look for advice, and put Norman in the bath for just under two hours yesterday like suggested on other threads. I was previously unaware of just how long they need to be soaked for. He pooed three times throughout the day (1 big 2 small) and I was so happy to see my little tort looking a lot better. He seems to have a fair bit more energy now. Today, he's only been pushing out tiny bits of moss and yet to have a proper poo (I was advised to buy moss and sand from the place I bought him from not knowing this was completely the wrong thing to buy -removed all of this from his table). Should I be concerned that he's not pooing today?
He's scheduled for another vet appointment, I'm not sure whether to take him back as I feel a bit dubious about the whole thing. If he was the worst case they've ever seen, why did they not help the poor baby then? They told me what I already knew, and sent me on my way with the extra suggestion of vibrating him twice a day as well.

Any advice on what I should do, he seems to be shifting some of it and he's eating daily? What else can the vet possibly offer me? Thanks so much for any help can't believe how incredibly helpful this forum is, wish I'd seen it right at the beginning.
DISCLAIMER: I'm new here, too. I imagine you're quite uncertain and nervous. Veterinarians aren't too educated about these particular critters. Their knowledge tends to be fairly rudimentary and general at best. The turt experts here will probably be able to help you immensely.

Norman's condition reminds me of something I frequently encountered with horses. It is quite common for horses to 'colic' or get 'colicky'. This can be due to trapped gas or feces. In many cases, the cure was to walk them, walk them, walk them. This increases intestinal peristalsis, wave-like movements along the intestinal tract, that pushes things along toward the 'exit'. Another thing that increases that movement is warmth. If your turtle could drink some warm fluids, it possibly could help.

When there are serious 'slow-downs' in the motility of the gut, food can back up, become impacted and actually become a bowel obstruction. The good news for you, is that you say he continues eating and pooping. If he were severely impacted, it's more likely than not he would not be eating OR pooping. Sounds like he is improving.

I wonder if he became dehydrated? Any idea the cause of his impaction?
 

T140140

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Good advice from all previous posters. What substrate is he on now?
I've bought coco coir for him now, I've gotten rid of the sand and moss. I'm so frustrated that was the suggested substrate for him when judging by the posts on here it's the worst thing to possibly get! The vet suggested during the poorly period to use newspaper but I'm worried he'll try and munch on that so I have used some clean tea towels for now whilst he's on food restriction to prevent him trying to munch on anything aside from his laxative-covered watermelon!
 

T140140

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Messages
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Location (City and/or State)
Nottingham
DISCLAIMER: I'm new here, too. I imagine you're quite uncertain and nervous. Veterinarians aren't too educated about these particular critters. Their knowledge tends to be fairly rudimentary and general at best. The turt experts here will probably be able to help you immensely.

Norman's condition reminds me of something I frequently encountered with horses. It is quite common for horses to 'colic' or get 'colicky'. This can be due to trapped gas or feces. In many cases, the cure was to walk them, walk them, walk them. This increases intestinal peristalsis, wave-like movements along the intestinal tract, that pushes things along toward the 'exit'. Another thing that increases that movement is warmth. If your turtle could drink some warm fluids, it possibly could help.

When there are serious 'slow-downs' in the motility of the gut, food can back up, become impacted and actually become a bowel obstruction. The good news for you, is that you say he continues eating and pooping. If he were severely impacted, it's more likely than not he would not be eating OR pooping. Sounds like he is improving.

I wonder if he became dehydrated? Any idea the cause of his impaction?
It's such an awful feeling that you've put this little life through stress and suffering because you followed the incorrect advice, I will really have a good read at some of these other posts on tips to look after babies.
Yes! He has a lot of gas at the moment as well, especially when hes having a soak there are so many bubbles that are coming out its crazy. I would feel bad leaving him running about trying to get out of the bath but now I realise from all these posts it's the best thing for him!
I must admit seeing those poops yesterday was such a relief, hopefully we're on the move now!

I'm not sure, he's been urinating normally I think it was more the substrate he's been eating. A combination of sand and dried moss which is apparently a pretty bad combination. I'm a little worried he's been eating a few stones as well but hopefully he will pass these.
 

Tom

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DISCLAIMER: I'm new here, too. I imagine you're quite uncertain and nervous. Veterinarians aren't too educated about these particular critters. Their knowledge tends to be fairly rudimentary and general at best. The turt experts here will probably be able to help you immensely.

Norman's condition reminds me of something I frequently encountered with horses. It is quite common for horses to 'colic' or get 'colicky'. This can be due to trapped gas or feces. In many cases, the cure was to walk them, walk them, walk them. This increases intestinal peristalsis, wave-like movements along the intestinal tract, that pushes things along toward the 'exit'. Another thing that increases that movement is warmth. If your turtle could drink some warm fluids, it possibly could help.

When there are serious 'slow-downs' in the motility of the gut, food can back up, become impacted and actually become a bowel obstruction. The good news for you, is that you say he continues eating and pooping. If he were severely impacted, it's more likely than not he would not be eating OR pooping. Sounds like he is improving.

I wonder if he became dehydrated? Any idea the cause of his impaction?
You are so right and this is great information. This is one of the primary reasons I'm constantly harping on people about having large enclosures. When people come here complaining that they don't have much space, I tell them that a tortoise isn't the right pet for them. Torts need LOTS of room. You hit the nail on the head. I see you are new here, but I like you already!
 

Tom

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It's such an awful feeling that you've put this little life through stress and suffering because you followed the incorrect advice, I will really have a good read at some of these other posts on tips to look after babies.
Yes! He has a lot of gas at the moment as well, especially when hes having a soak there are so many bubbles that are coming out its crazy. I would feel bad leaving him running about trying to get out of the bath but now I realise from all these posts it's the best thing for him!
I must admit seeing those poops yesterday was such a relief, hopefully we're on the move now!

I'm not sure, he's been urinating normally I think it was more the substrate he's been eating. A combination of sand and dried moss which is apparently a pretty bad combination. I'm a little worried he's been eating a few stones as well but hopefully he will pass these.
Almost everyone starts out with that wrong advice. I sure did. Don't beat yourself up. You've already done a 180, and if he's pooping and eating, you should be fine from this point forward.

Now make sure you've got the right diet to ensure high fiber and god variety. This will prevent further intentional substrate ingestion. All that info is in the care sheet, but feel free to ask questions too.
 

zolasmum

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Hello and welcome from Devon. I lived in Nottingham for some years, in Cinderhill, and liked it a lot. I am so sorry you have been having problems with little Norman, but it certainly seems as though you are getting them sorted out. It is such a shame you were given bad advice at first,but as you have discovered, there are very helpful and knowledgeable people here.We have a Hermanns tortoise too - he has recently had his 21st birthday - I wish this forum had been around then.
Please keep us informed about Norman's progress - and send a photo when he is well ! Tortoises are tough little creatures, and you will know just the right way to look after him.
Best wishes from Angie.
 

Gijoux

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Hi everyone,

I have a teeny little hermans (Norman) who has been impacted. First vet I went to was very calm, explained the situation and gave me lactulose (laxatives) and reptoboost for nourishment. Told me to bathe him and only feed him watery food with lactulose on it. If it hadn't cleared within two weeks to return. Unfortunately, I have moved in this time and when concerned Norman hadn't fully recovered I went to a different vets (I think Norman had only done 2 poos in two weeks). They charged a lot of money (three times as much as the first vets I visited), said it's one of the worse cases of impaction they've seen and sent me on my way (I have attached the X-Ray).
I came onto this forum two nights ago to look for advice, and put Norman in the bath for just under two hours yesterday like suggested on other threads. I was previously unaware of just how long they need to be soaked for. He pooed three times throughout the day (1 big 2 small) and I was so happy to see my little tort looking a lot better. He seems to have a fair bit more energy now. Today, he's only been pushing out tiny bits of moss and yet to have a proper poo (I was advised to buy moss and sand from the place I bought him from not knowing this was completely the wrong thing to buy -removed all of this from his table). Should I be concerned that he's not pooing today?
He's scheduled for another vet appointment, I'm not sure whether to take him back as I feel a bit dubious about the whole thing. If he was the worst case they've ever seen, why did they not help the poor baby then? They told me what I already knew, and sent me on my way with the extra suggestion of vibrating him twice a day as well.

Any advice on what I should do, he seems to be shifting some of it and he's eating daily? What else can the vet possibly offer me? Thanks so much for any help can't believe how incredibly helpful this forum is, wish I'd seen it right at the beginning.
 

Gijoux

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I am wondering what the Vet felt about those white stone like looking objects on the X-ray. Are these uroliths or bladder stones? Perhaps your tortoise isn't impacted with poop but perhaps more of a urinary tract obstruction.
 

T140140

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Hello and welcome from Devon. I lived in Nottingham for some years, in Cinderhill, and liked it a lot. I am so sorry you have been having problems with little Norman, but it certainly seems as though you are getting them sorted out. It is such a shame you were given bad advice at first,but as you have discovered, there are very helpful and knowledgeable people here.We have a Hermanns tortoise too - he has recently had his 21st birthday - I wish this forum had been around then.
Please keep us informed about Norman's progress - and send a photo when he is well ! Tortoises are tough little creatures, and you will know just the right way to look after him.
Best wishes from Angie.
Hi Angie,
Yes I know Cinderhill, Nottingham is my main home I'm hopefully moving up to Liverpool soon! Yes I'm frustrated at myself really that I didn't do my own research and took everything that was initially said as gospel. I do believe the place that sold me him had good intentions they wouldn't let me take him home until they knew of his living situation but some of the advice appeared to be quite unhelpful. 21 -that's brilliant how lovely I bet he's such a pleasure to have, I must admit I'm so happy I picked a Hermanns they seem to have great little personalities.
I most certainly will, he's still eating, we haven't been getting big poops the past two days but he seems in good spirits so fingers crossed and when he's feeling happier I'll definitely post a picture!
Thanks for your lovely words, from Tayla.
 

T140140

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I am wondering what the Vet felt about those white stone like looking objects on the X-ray. Are these uroliths or bladder stones? Perhaps your tortoise isn't impacted with poop but perhaps more of a urinary tract obstruction.
The vet believes it was some of the stones in the substrate he might have eaten. I'm not sure actually, if he's urinating normally would this be a sign that everything is okay? He's been urinating fine and his urates appear to look normal. I think because both vets said it was an impaction I'm led to believe its probably that, perhaps if things don't work themselves out then that's an avenue to explore with the vet in future!
 

T140140

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Hi everyone,

I just wanted to send an update a Norman, he's greatly improved and had a number of poops since I last wrote on here. He's been spending time with me in the garden on the lovely sunny days we've been having in the UK. He seems to be loving his new substrate (coco coir) been exploring a lot more and doesn't appear to be feasting on it. He's definitely taken to watermelon, but starting to move him slowly back to less watery foods such as weeds and flowers from the garden.

We're slowly but surely getting there!

Many thanks from us both :)
 

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zolasmum

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Hi everyone,

I just wanted to send an update a Norman, he's greatly improved and had a number of poops since I last wrote on here. He's been spending time with me in the garden on the lovely sunny days we've been having in the UK. He seems to be loving his new substrate (coco coir) been exploring a lot more and doesn't appear to be feasting on it. He's definitely taken to watermelon, but starting to move him slowly back to less watery foods such as weeds and flowers from the garden.

We're slowly but surely getting there!

Many thanks from us both :)
Hello Tayla - it was lovely to see Norman's photo - he looks a very determined little chap - and I am so glad he is making so much progress. You will see lots of changes in him over the next year or two, as he grows - Zola was very small and not well when we got him,with a split in his shell- probably from being trodden on - but right from the start his dad and myself were determined to give him a really good life - it has turned out to be a rather odd life, as we take him out with us everywhere we can - his dad has taken him for a walk by the sea this afternoon- Zola loves to watch the waves.! He has a wonderful personality - he is very good at letting us know what he wants - and is determined to get it - Norman looks like he might be the same !
I hope Norman stays well and happy - I am pretty sure he will - and at least you know there are people here who can help with just about anything.
I will send one of my favourite photos of Zola - a couple of years ago at Easter - you can see the split in his shell from above his neck - it has widened a lot as he has grown, but he has always had such fighting spirit, and is very strong and healthy.
Best wishes to you and Norman from
Angie
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