Important info for newbies

[MORTYtheTORTY]

I just got a hatchling a few days ago with possibly RI or pneumonia as it was sick the day I brought it home...I skimped on buying a cheaper enclosure because I spent nearly $400 on EVERYTHING and so I bought a sterlite bin <--PLEASE don't skimp on something because this was the reason the tort never got better but I quickly changed it after a couple days...First of all I was using Coconut coir with playsand mix and supposedly you aren't supposed to do that =/ So switching it out to just coconut coir instead so it stays moist <--TEMPERATURE is a major major deal so please pay attention as I don't think my temps were enough...the bin that I have was way too big and air escaped so it didn't stay warm around the enclosure and just one hot side and one cool side. The person I bought mine from said to keep it dry and that's another mistake. For the meantime I didn't have the right enclosure so I put foil on top to trap the heat and the moisture levels went up and so did the heat and the tort looks much happier but still sick =/
There is so much info on the web that it's hard to keep track of what to use and what not to use and/or do. My bulbs are onpoint but the only problem I did was the substrate and the enclosure...yes bigger is better but maybe the bin is a bad idea until they get older or maybe 2yrs...I went and bought a aquarium today to trap more moisture...if you need help go to http://arizonasulcata.webs.com/productsprices.htm His name is Austin and he is a GREAT helper, newbie or not. You can also find him in some forums and on here under Arizona Sulcata http://tortoiseforum.org/user-Arizona-Sulcata#axzz1oaz9517s

 

[Jacqui]

Kimmy, while I am sorry that your hatchling got sick, I do not think either the fact you used a plastic bin nor coir/sand substrate were at fault. Both items are actually fine to use.

 

[HtVic]

your topic should change for help from the pros

 

[Tom]

I understand the point of your thread, and its a nice thing to do. However, I have to agree with Jacqui here. Your only mistake was buying a tortoise from the wrong source. That is the biggest lesson that I wish I could teach people. If you just buy from someone like Austin or KBaker or Katherine or Tortoiselover or anyone else who keeps their babies hydrated and warm, you just won't see these problems...

 

[MORTYtheTORTY]

I have to disagree on this guys =/ I did refund that tort and getting 2 from Austin on Wed but the bin did play a major role because it wasn't trapping heat and moisture inside and air was escaping since the bin was big and long...The temp was a major role as you had stated in my very first post Tom. I put foil over the enclosure and within 2 days the sick tort perked up and looked much happier but we did refund him today since he was like that the day we brought him home...I went out and bought a 25 gallon aquarium in hopes to trap heat and moisture because I refuse to do the foil thing LOL it was odd having all that foil on there since that bin was big but in a year or two I will be taking that bin back out in hopes to use it since it's spacious. I hope by the time they are 2 they won't need a strict temperature for their enclosure and can work around having a warm side and cooler side with no humidity possibly?!? Have you guys used play sand with the hatchlings before?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I have to disagree on this guys =/ I did refund that tort and getting 2 from Austin on Wed but the bin did play a major role because it wasn't trapping heat and moisture inside and air was escaping since the bin was big and long...The temp was a major role as you had stated in my very first post Tom. I put foil over the enclosure and within 2 days the sick tort perked up and looked much happier but we did refund him today since he was like that the day we brought him home...I went out and bought a 25 gallon aquarium in hopes to trap heat and moisture because I refuse to do the foil thing LOL it was odd having all that foil on there since that bin was big but in a year or two I will be taking that bin back out in hopes to use it since it's spacious. I hope by the time they are 2 they won't need a strict temperature for their enclosure and can work around having a warm side and cooler side with no humidity possibly?!? Have you guys used play sand with the hatchlings before?

You can mix play sand with coir but to use it alone is not a good idea as it can cause impaction. I raise my babies in a 50 gallon aquarium and no foil is needed to keep in the heat.

 

[MORTYtheTORTY]

I have to disagree on this guys =/ I did refund that tort and getting 2 from Austin on Wed but the bin did play a major role because it wasn't trapping heat and moisture inside and air was escaping since the bin was big and long...The temp was a major role as you had stated in my very first post Tom. I put foil over the enclosure and within 2 days the sick tort perked up and looked much happier but we did refund him today since he was like that the day we brought him home...I went out and bought a 25 gallon aquarium in hopes to trap heat and moisture because I refuse to do the foil thing LOL it was odd having all that foil on there since that bin was big but in a year or two I will be taking that bin back out in hopes to use it since it's spacious. I hope by the time they are 2 they won't need a strict temperature for their enclosure and can work around having a warm side and cooler side with no humidity possibly?!? Have you guys used play sand with the hatchlings before?

You can mix play sand with coir but to use it alone is not a good idea as it can cause impaction. I raise my babies in a 50 gallon aquarium and no foil is needed to keep in the heat.

Maggie...I didn't put foil on the aquarium LOL that would probably cook the poor things hahahaha I have a sterlite bin that wasn't trapping in enough heat/moisture so I had to put foil. I have a mix of sand and coir but more coir than sand...I hear the sand can cause a RI or as you said impact so I am going to take it out and I did buy a 25 gallon aquarium to put the new hatchlings in so hopefully they will do much better but I just want people to let me know if keeping them in a bin when they are older is safer and what temps or humidity?

 

[Tom]

Heat and humidity can be controlled in any size container. It just takes some figuring out. Were you using one of those low side sweater boxes? That WOULD make it much harder, but a regular bin is really no different than an aquarium. Either way, a closed chamber will work best.

I start babies in 40's or 100's. I think a 29 is way too small. Once you put in all the "furniture" there is hardly any floor space left even in a 40. There is no way a 29 or a tote bin should last a normally growing sulcata for even one year much less two... My babies outgrow my 40's in 3 months. They outgrow the 100's (60x18") in 6 months tops.

 

[Jacqui]

Have you guys used play sand with the hatchlings before?


I have a mix of sand and coir but more coir than sand...I hear the sand can cause a RI or as you said impact so I am going to take it out

After a lot of researching and years of experimenting with what works for me, I do use the coir and sand. I use it from hatchlings on up. If a tortoise is not properly hydrated, it may cause an impaction. As for the RI (respiratory infection), no sand does not cause that.

---

Heat and humidity can be controlled in any size container. It just takes some figuring out. Were you using one of those low side sweater boxes? That WOULD make it much harder, but a regular bin is really no different than an aquarium.

I agree!

---

You can mix play sand with coir but to use it alone is not a good idea as it can cause impaction.

Ditto!

 

[DanaLachney]

I am personally using one of those plastic storage bins myself and find there is no problem keeping the heat in. In fact at times I find it's a degree or two higher than what's needed. Now I do not use aluminum foil to cover the top I feel that's too impractical and a waist of aluminum foil. I did however use the lid of the bin and cut a hole for the CHE and a square out of the corner for the basking light. For now as far as humidity goes I keep my substrate moist and spray with a warm water bottle many times a day. I also do not have the humidity gauge right down by the substrate it's halfway up so I can tell when humidity is needed there versus floor humidity. I have attached a photo so u can see...

View attachment 18002

---

View attachment 18003

 

[MORTYtheTORTY]

Danalachney...I have the same exact bin you do but bigger and longer and I didn't have a cover for it, that's why the air was escaping and I only have one lamp stand with a dome on one end so maybe that's why it didn't trap moisture. The aluminum foil really helped and it's not like you have to replace it every day..I used 4-5 short strips (of course not covering it the longer way) but it worked temporarily for the sick hatchling I bought before I returned him. I finally returned him and bought a 25 gallon aquarium...maybe once I figure out what to do with a top cover then we'd be fine...I use the UV's/heat all in one bulb so that's why I didn't buy separate basking and heat, and I have 1 ceramic bulb for night, all 100W. I've nearly spent $400 on everything so $$ isn't an issue, if it outgrows the tank then we can just keep upgrading but I just wanted ideas of how everyone else had it...After the bin experience I had (which was bad) I figured a tort table wouldn't trap much either =/ we'll see how the 25 gallon holds up, it does look small to me but I guess it will do. I really wanted to use the bin but I'm not going to do the foil thing.

 

[DanaLachney]

Danalachney...I have the same exact bin you do but bigger and longer and I didn't have a cover for it, that's why the air was escaping and I only have one lamp stand with a dome on one end so maybe that's why it didn't trap moisture. The aluminum foil really helped and it's not like you have to replace it every day..I used 4-5 short strips (of course not covering it the longer way) but it worked temporarily for the sick hatchling I bought before I returned him. I finally returned him and bought a 25 gallon aquarium...maybe once I figure out what to do with a top cover then we'd be fine...I use the UV's/heat all in one bulb so that's why I didn't buy separate basking and heat, and I have 1 ceramic bulb for night, all 100W. I've nearly spent $400 on everything so $$ isn't an issue, if it outgrows the tank then we can just keep upgrading but I just wanted ideas of how everyone else had it...After the bin experience I had (which was bad) I figured a tort table wouldn't trap much either =/ we'll see how the 25 gallon holds up, it does look small to me but I guess it will do. I really wanted to use the bin but I'm not going to do the foil thing.

Honestly a larger bin for a hatchling IS a bad idea unless u have means to properly heat it. It's just easier to heat a smaller one and out of curiosity u said u used one bulb for heat and uv, do u mind me asking which one u used. When I first set up my tortoise table I only had it halfway covered and had to do some experimenting with bulbs and things until I got it all where I wanted it. Sometimes that's the best way to do it. How many gallons was your bin?

 

[MORTYtheTORTY]

there's only 1 bulb for UV/heat all in one which is the self ballasted mercury vapor bulb from zoomed...I'm sure it's in other brands but with the foil covered over it, it kept the temp just right with 80 degrees even on the cooler end and the sick tort did thrive in it but we refunded him yesterday. The bin I have, IDK the exact gallon but I know it's no more than 100 and it's bigger and longer than yours but maybe the same height. I hope I can use it when the tort gets bigger but I need to find a cover for it...the aluminum works great but it's just a hassle to take the pieces out in order to spray the enclosure or put food/water etc.

---

Heat and humidity can be controlled in any size container. It just takes some figuring out. Were you using one of those low side sweater boxes? That WOULD make it much harder, but a regular bin is really no different than an aquarium. Either way, a closed chamber will work best.

I start babies in 40's or 100's. I think a 29 is way too small. Once you put in all the "furniture" there is hardly any floor space left even in a 40. There is no way a 29 or a tote bin should last a normally growing sulcata for even one year much less two... My babies outgrow my 40's in 3 months. They outgrow the 100's (60x18") in 6 months tops.

so are you telling me the 25 gallon aquarium is too small?

 

[coreyc]

I would say a 25 gal is way to . I would go no smaller than a 40 gal breeder for a hatchling and more up from there. But that's just me

 

[DanaLachney]

there's only 1 bulb for UV/heat all in one which is the self ballasted mercury vapor bulb from zoomed...I'm sure it's in other brands but with the foil covered over it, it kept the temp just right with 80 degrees even on the cooler end and the sick tort did thrive in it but we refunded him yesterday. The bin I have, IDK the exact gallon but I know it's no more than 100 and it's bigger and longer than yours but maybe the same height. I hope I can use it when the tort gets bigger but I need to find a cover for it...the aluminum works great but it's just a hassle to take the pieces out in order to spray the enclosure or put food/water etc.

---

so are you telling me the 25 gallon aquarium is too small?

---

A 100 gallon plastic tote in my opinion is way too big for even a healthy tortoise. Unless u have a CHE and a heat/UVB lamp lowered way down in there there is no way to properly heat it without blasting the baby with too much light. And it would certainly be harder to keep humidity high in such a tall enclosure with out the help of a humidifier. When I asked which type of heat/UVB bulb u used I meant was it a florescent tube, a compact florescent or one of the coil types. My storage bin is also 12 1/2 inches tall which is also the perfect light for any basking light u would need

 

[MORTYtheTORTY]

I already have a 25 gallon and if it's too small or they outgrow it fast then I will go up from there, but will try the aquarium out before I toss it or give it away...

@DanaLachney: I doubt it's 100gallon, that seems too big...I have another Sterlite bin for my son's toys and that says 30 gallon but it's more taller and deeper than the one I have (it's an inch shorter in length also)...my bin would work fine if I had a top with it but I didn't think I needed it so I didn't purchase the top with it =/ (mistake on my part)...like I said the foil trapped in heat and humidity just fine <--could've used a little more humidity but that's the only thing that was fluctuating since the bulb dried it out alot. The humidity level fluctuated from 30-50, under 60 never over and I sprayed 4x's or more every day in the enclosure. I will clean out the 25 gallon and post a pic next week when I get the new torts (hatchlings)...if I notice it's too small then I will have to find a cover for the bin I have somehow.

 

[DanaLachney]

I already have a 25 gallon and if it's too small or they outgrow it fast then I will go up from there, but will try the aquarium out before I toss it or give it away...

@DanaLachney: I doubt it's 100gallon, that seems too big...I have another Sterlite bin for my son's toys and that says 30 gallon but it's more taller and deeper than the one I have (it's an inch shorter in length also)...my bin would work fine if I had a top with it but I didn't think I needed it so I didn't purchase the top with it =/ (mistake on my part)...like I said the foil trapped in heat and humidity just fine <--could've used a little more humidity but that's the only thing that was fluctuating since the bulb dried it out alot. The humidity level fluctuated from 30-50, under 60 never over and I sprayed 4x's or more every day in the enclosure. I will clean out the 25 gallon and post a pic next week when I get the new torts (hatchlings)...if I notice it's too small then I will have to find a cover for the bin I have somehow.

You could use plywood and cut a top for it that's what alot of people do. I was gonna do that if my lid didn't work also if u your temps weren't up to par u could try adding a CHE in the middle of the enclosure it helps alot and doesn't put off any light so it's safe to use at night as well

 

[ascott]

When you bought the bin did you also purchase the lid? As previously mentioned that is a perfect top...cut out the lid for your light/heating element and out the top on....that simple. Now if the container is too short then placing plants and hides becomes more difficult....I agree that while you will have hatchlings the smaller tank you now have will working for a little while I would not put too many hard hides in there but maybe opt for plant clusters (real or silk) and get plants that have a canopy effect so you little one continue to feel the overall warmth but can snug into the plant for a secure sense of hiding....I also would be sure if you are running the higher humidity method that you don't let that ambient temp drop below 80°....I would use a mix of organic soil/regular good ole clean dirt/coco coir.....I personally find an indoor enclosure should not have sand...this is because I have had to aid a tortoise ailing from solid sand impaction.....others do use it and like it...I just preferred to remove that added risk....

Also even if you use the higher humidity method I would also keep the coolest end of the enclosure dry...a tortoise should be able to get onto dry land if they so choose....it is a tortoise and a tortoise shell should be able to dry out from time to time to keep it healthy.....again, I suggest this because in the world outside of the tank would allow for a multitude of ground conditions.....and if you have spent 400.00 dollars thus far and you don't have the most perfectly enclosure then in my opinion someone is not giving you the best advise.....maybe re evaluate where you are now and see if you have the perfect set up...if not I am afraid you are being led astray.....as money should be a factor ..and what I mean ny that is you need an enclosure, light/heat element, substrate and a couple items inside for a hide and for food and soaking....these things should not cost you 400.00 dollars....in my opinion.

Also, if the baby sent to you was sent sick then you were already overspending by trying to fix something you never should have been forced to deal with...you know?

I hope that you have a much better go at the new hatchlings you are going to get....

 

[MORTYtheTORTY]

your talking about the Ceramic heater? I have one for night time..I have one stand and one dome, I switch out the light to the ballasted mercury bulb in the morning and at night I switch the ceramic light. What I thought about was since the temps weren't up to par I was thinking about putting the tortoise seed mix/grass/plants on the cooler end with a flourescent bulb to grow the plants so it stays warm on both ends and maybe the temps wouldn't escape?! IDK I already bought the gallon aquarium so we'll see how that works and I will take pics next week...if not I will figure out what to do with the bin, I have ideas but haven't made moves but my best bet was the grass/plants on the other end, what do you think?

---

When you bought the bin did you also purchase the lid? As previously mentioned that is a perfect top...cut out the lid for your light/heating element and out the top on....that simple. Now if the container is too short then placing plants and hides becomes more difficult....I agree that while you will have hatchlings the smaller tank you now have will working for a little while I would not put too many hard hides in there but maybe opt for plant clusters (real or silk) and get plants that have a canopy effect so you little one continue to feel the overall warmth but can snug into the plant for a secure sense of hiding....I also would be sure if you are running the higher humidity method that you don't let that ambient temp drop below 80°....I would use a mix of organic soil/regular good ole clean dirt/coco coir.....I personally find an indoor enclosure should not have sand...this is because I have had to aid a tortoise ailing from solid sand impaction.....others do use it and like it...I just preferred to remove that added risk....

Also even if you use the higher humidity method I would also keep the coolest end of the enclosure dry...a tortoise should be able to get onto dry land if they so choose....it is a tortoise and a tortoise shell should be able to dry out from time to time to keep it healthy.....again, I suggest this because in the world outside of the tank would allow for a multitude of ground conditions.....and if you have spent 400.00 dollars thus far and you don't have the most perfectly enclosure then in my opinion someone is not giving you the best advise.....maybe re evaluate where you are now and see if you have the perfect set up...if not I am afraid you are being led astray.....as money should be a factor ..and what I mean ny that is you need an enclosure, light/heat element, substrate and a couple items inside for a hide and for food and soaking....these things should not cost you 400.00 dollars....in my opinion.

Also, if the baby sent to you was sent sick then you were already overspending by trying to fix something you never should have been forced to deal with...you know?

I hope that you have a much better go at the new hatchlings you are going to get....

Hello! The lamp stand itself is pricey if you look online and here in CA the prices are jacked everywhere you go. The dome is roughly $26 and the Self ballasted bulb is $54 and the ceramic bulb is $36 so that's already over $100. The tort was $135 but I got a refund already, bought alot at carolinapetsupply.com and spent $124 on cuttlebones, coconutcoir, TNT supplement, and Seed mix. Then I still bought stuff for the bin and sand and organic soil so of course to start up it cost money...The tort was refunded yesterday so getting 2 more hatchlings on wed.
I didn't purchase the lid with the bin cuz figured I didn't need it but I realized it was a mistake a few days ago and the foil worked tremendously better than I had thought. The temps were 80 all around even in the cooler end and the cooler end stayed dry for the most part and it was moist near the basking so the only thing I needed was that darn lid =/

 

[DanaLachney]

your talking about the Ceramic heater? I have one for night time..I have one stand and one dome, I switch out the light to the ballasted mercury bulb in the morning and at night I switch the ceramic light. What I thought about was since the temps weren't up to par I was thinking about putting the tortoise seed mix/grass/plants on the cooler end with a flourescent bulb to grow the plants so it stays warm on both ends and maybe the temps wouldn't escape?! IDK I already bought the gallon aquarium so we'll see how that works and I will take pics next week...if not I will figure out what to do with the bin, I have ideas but haven't made moves but my best bet was the grass/plants on the other end, what do you think?

Switching out the bulbs can get to be a bit taxing and I've heard if u touch the bulbs with ur fingers it shortens their lifespan.

---

Also which type of Bulb are u using? I hope it's not the coil type because the make the torts go blind over time. Most people recommend using the long florescent tubes that are mounted inside the hood fixtures not inside the dome clamp lamps