Just a few questions....

[ShreddersMom]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

There is all sorts of old, out-dated, incorrect info out there in the world. I think it is awesome that you've decide to give this guy a better home, but it sounds like you've found some of the old info, which is not all bad, but there is room for improvement.

Here is the current and correct care info:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

I'll address each thing in order:
1. Coir is okay, but sand is not. Sand is a big impaction risk and possible skin and eye irritant. The best substrate for them is a 3-5" layer of fine grade orchid bark. This is available at any garden center in bulk bags for cheap.
2. Mine all eat the peat moss, so when his appetite picks back up, you will likely have to remove it.
3. Hay is more for older larger sulcatas. Smaller ones will not usually eat it unless its introduced correctly over time. Here is that list of foods that leigti mentioned: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
4. YOUR MAIN PROBLEM: Temperatures. He needs it warmer. This is a tropical species and it does not get cold where they are from down in their burrows at night. The temperature should not drop below 80 anywhere in his enclosure day or night, and there need to be a large basking area that reaches 100 degrees all day at tortoise shell height. You'll need to add another CHE, or get a larger wattage one.
5. They do best at the higher humidities that simulate the African monsoon season that they hatch into. Shoot for around 80% humidity.
6. Numbers 4 and 5 will be very difficult to accomplish in your current enclosure with its open top. All the warm humid air just rises up and into the room. A large closed chamber will make it easiest for you to achieve the needed temps and humidity. Like this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
7. He should be warm water soaked every day or every other for the next few weeks. After that you can taper it down to a couple of times a week.
8. You mentioned him cruising around the room. This is a very dangerous practice and I discourage it. They frequently end up injured, impacted or dead and EVERY single person who does this proclaims how safe they made it and how carefully they watched their tortoise and how nothing could happen. But it DOES happen. I see it all the time. Best to keep them in their enclosure.
9. Given number 8, they NEED a large enclosure with lots of room to move around. Locomotion helps move things along the digestive tract, similar to how it works in horses. When they sit still hiding for too much of the time, they can end up impacted. Soaks help with this. Long soaks of 45-60 minutes in the bathtub with warm water will get them moving and wake them up. The constant marching around is good exercise and the warm water will get their system up and running. Refrsh the water as needed and make sure t stays warm.

The two biggest mistakes people make with these guys is not keeping them warm enough and keeping them in enclosures that are too small. Sounds like you've got both of these factors working against you.

Hope all this helps. Please feel free to question me/us on any of this. Happy to explain more if needed.

Unfortunately a bigger enclosure isn't an option right now. So his only form of exercise is to be out and about in the room. He's never left unattended, there are no stairs. We literally sit on the floor with him the entire time. No exceptions. I understand your concerns, but what is better at this point? Legitimate supervised exercise or none at all in an enclosure that's too small for him? And that's not me being rude - it is a legitimate question. In the future, he will have a bigger enclosure, but right now, it just isn't an option. I was reading on another forum that temps around 100* run the risk of burning his shell....is that not the case? And that same forum also said that the 50/50 mixed coconut coir and play sand was the best substrate out there. This is all very recent info they posted, so now I'm confused. So much conflicting info. I just want what's best for my tortie.

He doesn't seem to currently show an interest in the peat moss and he loves to burrow in it. I will keep a close eye on him and remove it if need be.

He seemed to eat the hay well tonight when it was mixed in. Since he seems to like it, I'm assuming it's safe to still blend it in his food even though his previous owner had never fed it? When given whole he thinks it's bedding and sleeps in his food bowl, so I was happy to see him eat it tonight.

 

[Tom]

Unfortunately a bigger enclosure isn't an option right now. So his only form of exercise is to be out and about in the room. He's never left unattended, there are no stairs. We literally sit on the floor with him the entire time. No exceptions. I understand your concerns, but what is better at this point? Legitimate supervised exercise or none at all in an enclosure that's too small for him? And that's not me being rude - it is a legitimate question. In the future, he will have a bigger enclosure, but right now, it just isn't an option. I was reading on another forum that temps around 100* run the risk of burning his shell....is that not the case? And that same forum also said that the 50/50 mixed coconut coir and play sand was the best substrate out there. This is all very recent info they posted, so now I'm confused. So much conflicting info. I just want what's best for my tortie.

He doesn't seem to currently show an interest in the peat moss and he loves to burrow in it. I will keep a close eye on him and remove it if need be.

He seemed to eat the hay well tonight when it was mixed in. Since he seems to like it, I'm assuming it's safe to still blend it in his food even though his previous owner had never fed it? When given whole he thinks it's bedding and sleeps in his food bowl, so I was happy to see him eat it tonight.

Its good that you've come back for more clarification on the conflicting info.

The sand/soil or coir mix has been used and recommended for a long time. Over time some people have realized that it is not safe, but the info has men repeated so many times and so many places, that ts hard to fight it. My career has me working with several reptile vets and they share their tortoise cases with me. I can't tell you how many x-rays of sand impacted tortoises I've seen. It often leads to death or an expensive surgery to cut open the plastron with a saw and remove the blockage. It is a nasty nasty surgery. Just don't use sand. Other things are safer and work better.

Think of how hot the carapace gets in the sun on a warm day. An area with lamps that get to 100 degrees at tortoise carapace height in an enclosure with a warm ambient temp will NOT burn the shell. If they can't get warm enough their digestive and immune systems cannot function. Where they come from its hot or hotter all day every day. There is not winter or cold time of year. 70 is too cold. 80 is good as an ambient, but they still need a warmer area to bask.

 

[Tom]

Unfortunately a bigger enclosure isn't an option right now. So his only form of exercise is to be out and about in the room. He's never left unattended, there are no stairs. We literally sit on the floor with him the entire time. No exceptions. I understand your concerns, but what is better at this point? Legitimate supervised exercise or none at all in an enclosure that's too small for him? And that's not me being rude - it is a legitimate question. In the future, he will have a bigger enclosure, but right now, it just isn't an option.

My legitimate answer is neither. A small enclosure is not adequate and walking around on the floor is not safe for a wide variety of reason. I don't take your words as rude at all, and I hope you won't take mine that way either.

I don't know what your reason for not being able to make a larger enclosure is, and its none of my business, but the bottom line is: If you can't give this tortoise what it needs, its time to give it to someone who can and will. I totally understand that you have limitations. Everyone does in some way or other. Not everyone can give a horse what it needs, so not everyone should own a horse. Likewise, sulcatas are not for everyone, and not everyone is willing to sacrifice the time, energy and resources to caring for one of these hot weather giants. Its okay if you are one of those people, but the tortoise needs what it needs. Your limitations should not impact this tortoise's health.

Same thing applies to me. I had a box turtle that I really loved, but I was not able to properly meet its needs with the restrictions I must deal with. I sent it to another forum member who was able to meet his needs. I mention this to demonstrate that I'm not picking on you, but we must all accept our limitations and still do what is best for the animals in our care.

 

[leigti]

I know there is a lot of conflicting information and it gets frustrating. But this site has the most up-to-date and correct information out there. I did months of research before I finally figured that out. The species specific section and the enclosure section will probably be here most help right now. Read read read and keep asking questions. No site is perfect but staying here you will get all the information you need and cut down on frustration.

I started out with too small of an enclosure, the wrong type of light. I have updated my indoor enclosure three times and my outdoor enclosure once. And I used to let my tortoise walk around the house also, although closely supervised. And I had to feed my tortoise something for sometimes three or four days before she would decide to eat it but after that she likes it. Except collard greens which she hates hates hates she doesn't like spinach either but since that's not that great for her it's no big loss.

You learn quick to pretty much ignore the pet stores, books, and possibly even your vet. But Tom and the other people on here know what they are talking about. I am jealous that you still have a farmers market that is open. Ours closed a couple months ago. Everything is frozen now.

 

[ShreddersMom]

The place we are living is not ours currently. In a few months, that won't be an issue. And after everything this poor tortoise has gone through, I don't think rehoming him is a fair option either. He was super stressed when he got him, and he's just starting to finally come around. You might not agree with it, but we will make do for a few months until a bigger enclosure is an option. I work in a veterinary emergency hospital, and while it doesn't treat tortoises, I'm pretty aware of meeting needs and such. I don't find your words rude, and I hope you don't find mine rude either. I'm doing my best by him right now, and pretty soon he's going to be living a great life. He will get his proper enclosure, I promise. He's lived all of his life in that box, and while I know it's not ideal, we will get his humidity up, his temps up, and get him out of it ASAP. I don't like it anymore than he does.

You have to understand that when he was given to us, all we knew was we were getting a tortoise, possibly of African subspecies, but no idea the actual breed, how old, how big, what he had available, what he was coming in, what he has had previously in life. I still know very little. I was doing tons of research about a tortoise that may or may not be the breed I was looking up. (I went with sulcata since it's the most popular, and got lucky.) I'm doing my best to gather a ton of information into a short period of time before he came to us. He's already doing significantly better than he was.

My boyfriend is already talking about building him a temporary enclosure in the basement if we can make the space available. That would help with keeping humidity up. And I will purchase a stronger CHE from Amazon tonight.

Thank you all for your help. All suggestions are welcome, so please keep them coming.

 

[ShreddersMom]

I know there is a lot of conflicting information and it gets frustrating. But this site has the most up-to-date and correct information out there. I did months of research before I finally figured that out. The species specific section and the enclosure section will probably be here most help right now. Read read read and keep asking questions. No site is perfect but staying here you will get all the information you need and cut down on frustration.

I started out with too small of an enclosure, the wrong type of light. I have updated my indoor enclosure three times and my outdoor enclosure once. And I used to let my tortoise walk around the house also, although closely supervised. And I had to feed my tortoise something for sometimes three or four days before she would decide to eat it but after that she likes it. Except collard greens which she hates hates hates she doesn't like spinach either but since that's not that great for her it's no big loss.

You learn quick to pretty much ignore the pet stores, books, and possibly even your vet. But Tom and the other people on here know what they are talking about. I am jealous that you still have a farmers market that is open. Ours closed a couple months ago. Everything is frozen now.

I'm super grateful we have a farmers market. It's about 45 minutes from the house but it's worth the drive, considering I can get cactus pads for $.89/lb and other veggies for less than that. I can get a months worth of food for the tortoise, not including the pellets, for $10/month. Sometimes less. I am like a kid in the candy store.

 

[leigti]

You're going to need a good source of food as he gets bigger you can start making plans for an outdoor enclosure for the summer. And a long term enclosure. I think it is a lot of fun to plan and make the enclosures. And I'm always tinkering with them. I don't have experiences with tortoises as big as yours is going to be but a lot of people here do. They can give you a lot of information on the inns and outs of keeping the big guys.

 

[ShreddersMom]

You're going to need a good source of food as he gets bigger you can start making plans for an outdoor enclosure for the summer. And a long term enclosure. I think it is a lot of fun to plan and make the enclosures. And I'm always tinkering with them. I don't have experiences with tortoises as big as yours is going to be but a lot of people here do. They can give you a lot of information on the inns and outs of keeping the big guys.

We are already working on an outdoor enclosure for when spring hits. We have a rather large dog house as a hide that we have modified to fit lights into if need be. And we are making plans for a temporary larger indoor enclosure if we can get permission. My boyfriend is very good at crafting things. I'll cruise the enclosure threads and see what else we need. If it's really not feasible we will make due until it is. He's not being uncared for. I promise.

 

[ShreddersMom]

You're going to need a good source of food as he gets bigger .

If I can get him eating hay in the quantity he is supposed to be, it's not an issue. We have horses, and they eat orchard grass and clover hay. Perfect tortoise food. It's $6/bale which is usually around 70 - 80 lbs a piece.

 

[leigti]

A large stock tank could work also 4n "indoor" enclosure. One of those round 8 foot ones would be great Or a stall in the barn. If you can provide the heat and UVB he needs without burning it down. There are a lot of options.

 

[ShreddersMom]

A large stock tank could work also 4n "indoor" enclosure. One of those round 8 foot ones would be great Or a stall in the barn. If you can provide the heat and UVB he needs without burning it down. There are a lot of options.

I will definitely look into those suggestions. Thank you!! This is why I came here. So many great suggestions!