My first winter while she is so active

KT1

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I know that my leopard tortoises don't have poops that can smear because they are full of grass fibers. You made it sound like your tortoise's poops are more smearable.
@Tom my question is totally off-topic from the current discussion, but you said something I would like to ask you about… what kinds of grass(es) do you feed your leopards?
I know my leopard likes to eat grass outside, and since cold winter is approaching here, I would like to grow some good grasses.
Thanks!!
 

Tom

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@Tom my question is totally off-topic from the current discussion, but you said something I would like to ask you about… what kinds of grass(es) do you feed your leopards?
I know my leopard likes to eat grass outside, and since cold winter is approaching here, I would like to grow some good grasses.
Thanks!!
Any of the common ones will work. I have South African leopards, and they are grass eaters like a sulcata. Regular leopards will sometimes eat grass, but many of them prefer not to. I use a grass mix from tortoise supply.com and I've seen other grass mixes from other sites too. You can easily sprout wheat grass inside in winter. This is my favorite one for outdoors in favorable weather:
I've never tried it indoors, but it might sprout for you with some good lighting.
 

KT1

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Any of the common ones will work. I have South African leopards, and they are grass eaters like a sulcata. Regular leopards will sometimes eat grass, but many of them prefer not to. I use a grass mix from tortoise supply.com and I've seen other grass mixes from other sites too. You can easily sprout wheat grass inside in winter. This is my favorite one for outdoors in favorable weather:
I've never tried it indoors, but it might sprout for you with some good lighting.
@Tom thanks for the grass info. My leopard is not supposed to be a South African, but at the rate he is growing, who knows?? I’m guessing I have a hybrid tort (just over a year old and almost 900g!). Time will tell!
 

Tom

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Damn it Tom...it's You're welcome...
Listen lady, I don't come here to be insulted and have people jump all down my throat. I know how to spell just fine and you can keep your bully comments to yourself. But thank you for showing me the correct spelling. :)
 

Maggie3fan

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Listen lady, I don't come here to be insulted and have people jump all down my throat. I know how to spell just fine and you can keep your bully comments to yourself. But thank you for showing me the correct spelling.
I'm just very afraid unless you make certain changes in your spelling, you put your professional career in danger...I'm only trying to help...
 

LeopardPickle

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Listen lady, I don't come here to be insulted and have people jump all down my throat. I know how to spell just fine and you can keep your bully comments to yourself. But thank you for showing me the correct spelling. :)
I am sure you will gaslight me for saying so, but these remarks are clearly directed at me. This thread is the perfect example of the unnecessary condescending and belittling stance well-known bloggers take towards new members.

I don’t know where you're from, but when someone asks for help, admits their faults, praises your skill, etc. you don’t continue to slam them. I didn’t come here to “hang with the big boys” I came here to be honest about my inexperience and get guidance from those above me.

The only remaining point I had wished to convey was that if you did some work on the culture of this community, it would help even more people, thus even more tortoises.

I am 27 years old and I have a better grasp on respect, character, and effective communication… not to mention, I don’t get joy out of putting people down.

While I can see a lot of your peers are with you on ignoring the very valid point I was trying to make, I bet some members see what I was saying, and it’s unfortunate they don’t have the courage to voice an opinion.

I am sure you will have to have the last word, and I am sure it will have the same unnecessary lack of respect as before. Be that as it may, I do appreciate the tortoise advice you gave me.
 

bluRose09

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I am sure you will gaslight me for saying so, but these remarks are clearly directed at me. This thread is the perfect example of the unnecessary condescending and belittling stance well-known bloggers take towards new members.

I don’t know where you're from, but when someone asks for help, admits their faults, praises your skill, etc. you don’t continue to slam them. I didn’t come here to “hang with the big boys” I came here to be honest about my inexperience and get guidance from those above me.

The only remaining point I had wished to convey was that if you did some work on the culture of this community, it would help even more people, thus even more tortoises.

I am 27 years old and I have a better grasp on respect, character, and effective communication… not to mention, I don’t get joy out of putting people down.

While I can see a lot of your peers are with you on ignoring the very valid point I was trying to make, I bet some members see what I was saying, and it’s unfortunate they don’t have the courage to voice an opinion.

I am sure you will have to have the last word, and I am sure it will have the same unnecessary lack of respect as before. Be that as it may, I do appreciate the tortoise advice you gave me.
Well said
 

Tom

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I am sure you will gaslight me for saying so, but these remarks are clearly directed at me. This thread is the perfect example of the unnecessary condescending and belittling stance well-known bloggers take towards new members.

I don’t know where you're from, but when someone asks for help, admits their faults, praises your skill, etc. you don’t continue to slam them. I didn’t come here to “hang with the big boys” I came here to be honest about my inexperience and get guidance from those above me.

The only remaining point I had wished to convey was that if you did some work on the culture of this community, it would help even more people, thus even more tortoises.

I am 27 years old and I have a better grasp on respect, character, and effective communication… not to mention, I don’t get joy out of putting people down.

While I can see a lot of your peers are with you on ignoring the very valid point I was trying to make, I bet some members see what I was saying, and it’s unfortunate they don’t have the courage to voice an opinion.

I am sure you will have to have the last word, and I am sure it will have the same unnecessary lack of respect as before. Be that as it may, I do appreciate the tortoise advice you gave me.
This was not directed at you personally, but guilty as charged regarding the rest. You are not the first person to do what you've done here. Surely you can see that from the responses. Maggie and I are friends, and we've been seeing this sort of thing together here for well over a decade. Yes, we were poking some fun at new people that come here and start their first post with something to the effect of "Don't be mean to me or tell me anything I don't want to hear..." You are setting yourself up for exactly what you don't want when you start with people that way. Its like saying "Hi! I know you people are A-holes, but please don't be an A-hole to me."

Nothing is going to change. People are who they are. Most people like the way I present info and thank me for it privately and publicly. About 1 in 25 react the way you did, or worse, lecture me/us, and leave. I wish it wasn't that way, but I'm no diplomat, and I say what is best for the tortoise care, not what makes the new members feel warm and fuzzy inside. I thought I did a good job being tactful and thoughtful with my first response to your post, given how you came at us. Some other people who have been around for a while and gotten to know me and my mannerisms agreed with me. You clearly don't agree. That's ok. If it will get you to stick around and learn better tips to help your tortoise, I will simply not respond to your posts, unless you directly ask, and let other people whose temperament better suits your particular sensibilities answer you. There are many members here who are super nice people who sugar coat things FAR better than I do. I'll let them address your questions and comments and I will offend you no more.
 

Yvonne G

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This thread has been reported, so I thought I should step in and explain.

Maggie and Tom are friends. She was poking the bear, so to speak, and they were both being sarcastic about how some newbies react when told something they didn't want to hear.

It's all good. They were just kidding around.
 

LeopardPickle

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This thread has been reported, so I thought I should step in and explain.

Maggie and Tom are friends. She was poking the bear, so to speak, and they were both being sarcastic about how some newbies react when told something they didn't want to hear.

It's all good. They were just kidding around.
Yvonne, I did not report this thread, I only replied. I don't see why you had to discredit me, saying "newbies react when told something they didn't want to hear." I found extremely useful advice from Tom, all of which I plan to implement. It's unfortunate you had to file my honest feedback about the style of communication as "being told something I didn't want to hear." Seems like that is what you are doing.
 

Yvonne G

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Yvonne, I did not report this thread, I only replied. I don't see why you had to discredit me, saying "newbies react when told something they didn't want to hear." I found extremely useful advice from Tom, all of which I plan to implement. It's unfortunate you had to file my honest feedback about the style of communication as "being told something I didn't want to hear." Seems like that is what you are doing.
You are being too thin skinned. No, YOU didn't report the thread, but someone did, so I had to act on the report. My comment wasn't about any one particular newbie, but a whole bunch of them who act that way. most often a nrw member will come on the Forum saying, "I'm doing this, or I'm doing that. . ." and they want us to say, " oh, how wonderful, what a good job! " Then when Tom tells them how the cow ate the cabbage they get all upset and say we're picking on them.

You were NOT on my radar when I commented on the thread.
 

LeopardPickle

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Well I apologize that I assumed your comment was directed at me, since it was on the question I posted, that I had been so recently interacting on.... doesn't seem like a far jump for me to assume so.... but okay, I do apologize.

You have misunderstood my point, but I can see you are done with this conversation as is myself and everyone else.
I was trying to be helpful, not all of us are unwilling to change or want praise. We just need to be taught first, we say stupid things because we don't know any better. That teaching can be respectful.
 

Humbug & Maz

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I think there is a big misunderstanding here and, like I said on my previous post, the experts on here are passionate and will say it as it is because of that passion which can sometimes be misinterpreted. But they all want what is best for tortoises all over the world and this forum has taught me so much although I understand that when people first post some can feel a little out of their depth as I did. I was embarrassed that I had been duped by the reptile store into believing certain things and it had been many years since I kept tortoises in the days they were cruelly imported all over the world (unbeknown to us at that time!) So I wanted to get it right and you want to get it right @LeopardPickle . When I read your first post I was like "ooh that isn't a great start to a post" but I understand you were a little anxious about posting - like you felt you were going to get certain reactions so you set yourself up in defence of that. But this forum is great and the experts are so knowledgeable do this for no payment, just the love of tortoises so I do hope that things can be worked out and you continue to post your questions and get advice. We all love our torts and want the best for them :<3:
 

Mrs.Jennifer

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Jennifer, I appreciate your thoughts and found your points insightful. I have only been on one other forum, where I didn't even make a post... because it seemed to be controlled by a dominating group of bloggers... I heard really good things about this forum and was beyond excited to try it...

I had honestly not thought of the fact you pointed out, which experts don't focus on one aspect of the tortoise husbandry--seems obvious I know, but truly something I had not thought of until I was told so. New members or any other members shouldn't be belittled for not having knowledge or experience. I thought that was the whole point was coming to a place and being honest about where you are and learn from others. Not ganged up on because I said something from lack of experience.

I didn't even realize my comment was off-putting until someone pointed it out, and then I was like okay you're right. But then another well-known member still had to chime in to belittle me even further (which was quite immature).

The only point I wish to continue making an effort on is this unsaid status that these experts can act like bullies just because they are well respected for their knowledge and experience. You said yourself, "being coachable is vital," does this not apply to these experts? These respected experts shouldn't be given a "pass" to disrespect people. If they were willing to truly take this feedback, they might end up helping a lot more tortoises in the end. There are A LOT of members on here who are afraid to ask questions for interactions exactly like this one. If these experts want to help more tortoises, don't attack people who just don't know how things work yet.

You mentioned being coachable in your response, you don't have to answer this but, were you advising me to be more coachable? I am genuinely asking... in my response to Tom, I told him where he was right, said thank you, pointed out my own mistakes..... I feel like that is the definition of being coachable. Where you advising me to be more coachable? If standing their ground and calling someone out on acting immature and disrespectful (after acknowledging their own mistakes) makes them not coachable...then this forum is exactly like the other one.

Long-time experts shouldn't belittle new members (unless that person is truly being disrespectful). If someone is going to take the time to write a post about me burning my house down, my neighbor's house, killing my tortoise, etc. then they clearly were willing to spend the additional time to respond to that person's post... instead of belittling a new member, why not write out an educational reply on how things are done around here (as simple as you did). Seriously, I found your reply quite insightful as a new member. Why not copy that paragraph as a template, and then when people say stuff like I did, just paste it in there. Boom, a solution to that problem. If the OP responds disrespectfully, then they deserve whatever comes their way. But it should not be a standard that revered members can be so easily set off and say such unnecessary personal attacks.
LeopardPickle,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I was responding to your initial statement of not wanting to hear about issues that may be present, but you weren’t asking for input regarding your tortoise’s entire husbandry. Whereas you went on to accept some information, it is difficult sometimes to know how to respond with an opening like yours. I don’t want to perpetuate this back and forth, but I do want to acknowledge your response and openness to dialogue. I do believe that we can all do better leaving space for grace (myself included), but I also recognize from being on this forum for enough time, that it can get wearisome to our experts to be disregarded because people don’t want to address the entire picture. I am glad that you are an individual who has paused and owned what is yours in this discussion, and I believe that we all can learn something from this exchange. We all can benefit from a breath and a bit of reflection on how we respond to one another. One last bit for thought, I believe that everyone has the right to be addressed by name (i.e. not “dude”).
 

dawnypooh

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Wow dude, first off. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions. Having someone jump down my throat was exactly what I was hoping to avoid.

These types of forms are most needed by people like me, who need the advice of people with a lot more experience and knowledge. But what I have found when I decide to try one again is some high-horse long-time blogger belittling me and what feels like attacking. Rereading my first thread, yes you are right, probably not the best way to start off when asking for help, but you could have gone about explaining that to me in such a more mature manner. Instead, I got told that I was on the verge of killing my tortoise who I obviously care very much about, that I was not only going to burn my house down but also my neighbor's house as well, that I can't trust my exotic reptile vet, that apparently I think I am a know-it-all...and basically that I should delete my account. Then I finally get into some useful advice (thank you), but of course the ending was another slam.

My other advice for you would be to ask questions instead of just assuming someone doesn't know or do something. I thought that is how these forums were supposed to go. I give her a warm soak every day, sometimes she does poop in them but not always. Her poop is not runny, it's very easy to clean up when she hasn't walked through it a bunch. Once again, my problem was her walking through her poop (but you assumed that it could be poor diet or lack of warm soaks)... if you had asked, I would have happily told you about her diet and soaking routine.

I will take your advice on the bulb I use to keep her water warm. If you had asked, I would have told you that I asked my vet about getting a lamp high above the water dish to keep it warm. I am the inexperienced one who choose to use the red light (Idk why I just thought that was a good option). My vet did not recommend that type of bulb. But moving forward I will switch to the CHE.

While I think your dramatic response about my clamp lights was over the top (also if you had asked if they were always turned in as much as they are in the photo I would have told you I was moving stuff around in her pen and always turn them in like that while fiddling around)... I do think you have a good point and for safety reasons, I will look into mounting hanging lights.

I also like your idea about mounting her hideout down, that seems to be a very valid solution for my problem.

Finally, thank you for telling me it's normal for her to be antsy for a bit while she settles into her normal routine. I don’t see why you had to start off in the manner you did when you could have just gotten straight to the useful advice that you had at the end.

By the way, the first bit of what you said completely contradicts the very next paragraph.

My advice for you, understand that you may be the expert, but if you truly care about people’s tortoises, you’d understand that you need to learn some better people/manner skills. Because no matter how much you can help people care for their tortoises, people will listen better when you respect them more.

This type of response (well it might be well-intentioned) often drives away new members who need the advice the most. This has been a disappointing experience.
Sorry you got that response. I’ve been raising tortoises for the last 4 years. And I’ve done something that was not in the best interests for my tortoise. But through research and Exotic vet care I have fixed my mistakes and my tortoise is thriving. I will tell you that there is not one set way. I have one that doesn’t mind the cold so much and does great out doors all year. I have one that I have to bring in for winter. Yea there age does play a part. We are trying to mimic there natural habitats. But they can adapt to some changes. Keep them warm, hydrated, dry, with appropriate humidity level And well fed. I found out from my vet that up to 30% of their weight is water they store. So keep water at all times and soaking 1-2 times a week is important. This will also cut down on her/him pooping all over enclosure. Good luck….
 

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