my two little ones have proper lighting, and get soaked daily, but they look dry....

[chandlerledray]

My two sullys get soaked daily and have water available, they also have proper lighting and temps but they still looked dry. The top of their heads, mostly my older one Franklin look dry and white ish. How can I fix this?

 

[DAC8671]

Can you try to get a nice good shot of them so we can see it?

 

[tortoisenerd]

My tort tends to do this too. I don't think there is much to do about it besides humidity at the substrate level and frequent soaking. When they are growing and peeling they can tend to look a little dry. I'd be interested to know if anyone does have any other suggestions. With pictures we can probably confirm nothing else is going on. Do you use a moist substrate? How old are the torts? For torts over a year I'd suggest less frequently than daily as long as water is available at all times in a large shallow dish they can easily get in and out of. Best wishes.

 

[Tom]

We need more info. What are your temps? Cool side, warm side and basking spot? I raised my sulcatas bone dry on dry substrate and never had any dry skin problems. What is it that makes you think it is abnormally dry? Is the whitish tint possibly from a messy calcium sprinkled meal?

 

[chandlerledray]

Well, it's not that they look whiteish its more so dry. There is a temp about 89 and another 79.
It's really worrying me, everything I do doesn't seem to help. Not just the dry thing but I'm afraid Frank is pyramiding, and my new little guy might be too. I give them calcium, they eat cuttlebone, they get proper UV, soak daily, heating is good, diet is perfect, yet they still don't look amazing. I try to give them sun time but lately it's been to chilly out (in Florida surprisingly!). And I think maybe one of the reasons their eyes are watery ish sometimes and they get dry is because of the light fixture might be too bright?? I'll put pictures up in my next post...

---

Franklin & Charlie (Half-Asleep Basking)

Could this light be the watery eye reason?

Franklin & Charlie Outside

---

Also, when it comes to night time, what do I do? I don't want to leave all the lights off because it gets cold..

 

[Tom]

1. They are pyramiding because of lack of humidity. Add a bunch of water to your coco coir regularly, and mist it several times a day. Run an ultra sonic humidifier if you need to. Also, it wouldn't hurt to give them a humid hide box. or two, to sleep and hang out in. Do they have some place to hide that we can't see in the pics?

2. I've never used those coil type flourescents, but other forum members have said they are damaging to tortoise eyes and never use them. I'd shut it off right away. If yours are getting sunshine 2 or 3 times a week for an hour or more, that's plenty of UV. They can go a few weeks with no UV during colder weather, IF they get lots of it most of the time.

3. 70ish at night is fine for sulcatas. If your house gets colder than that, you'll need to set up a CHE (ceramic heating element) or a red/blue night bulb for some night heat.

4. I see four light fixtures with bulbs burning in your pic and they are all at 45 degree angles spread all over the pen. In most cases, for an enclosure the size of yours you only need one or two at one end. Ideally they should be pointing straight down. I suspend mine by the cord so that I can raise or lower it to get the right temp. For your enclosure, I'd suggest a single 160 watt, mercury vapor type FLOOD bulb, on a 12 hour timer, all the way at one end and that's it. If that room gets colder than 70 at any time you can add a CHE of 60-100 watts and leave it on, next to the other bulb, 24/7 or as needed.

5. Temps: Cool side, 75ish. Warm side, 85ish. Basking SPOT, 100-120. Night, 70-75 for youngin's like yours. Its not the end of the world if night temps occasionally drop to 65, as long as they can get good and warm everyday. You need a remote temperature probe to properly measure these temps.

I think the cause of the problem you asked about is that coil type bulb. The fact that you noticed that their eyes were bothering them indicates to me that you are pretty tuned in to your tortoises and paying attention. That is pretty cool. Kudos to you.

Please keep us posted on this, as we can all learn from your situation.

 

[chandlerledray]

1.Yes they do have a place to hide, and that's where they sleep there's two logs for them.
With the humidity box, all I have to do is cut out a little plastic box, like a tupperware kind of thing, and put what kind of soil on there? They currently have a mix of cypress mulch and forest floor. And then just mist the ground every couple times a day for them?

2.Okay, and they get some sunshine, but its hard to now because it cold out...?
3. What is the name of the bulb for night time?

Thanks, yeah I love the little guys, I always want to make sure they're healthy, just had one baby pass from hatchling failure, so from now on any little thing I get worried about :/

 

[Yvonne G]

I'd like to reinforce what Roachman has said about the coil bulb. Please remove it right away. Coil bulbs concentrate the UV out the end of them and they can damage your tortoise's eyes.

If you think your habitat is too cold at night to turn off the lights, then you'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a heat source that doesn't include light. Tortoises need a day/night cycle. You can buy a cheap black light bulb for about $3 for warmth at night without light. They also sell ceramic heat emitters (CHE) at the pet store for around $25, that come in different wattages and screw into your bell light fixture.

 

[chadk]

First off, I think the white face thing is pretty normal. Mine has rough dry skin around the face right now as well, but has good humidity, temps, etc.

Here is a good article on caring for baby sullies:
http://www.sulcata-station.org/pdf/hatchfail.pdf

From the long article:

Here in New Mexico, problems with low indoor humidity occur during the wintertime. Last winter was
extremely dry with very little rainfall or snowfall. Our home's central heat is provided by a natural gas
furnace, which creates a very dry heat. Thus, with these two factors operating simultaneously, it's not
uncommon for us to have 10% or less ambient humidity indoors during the winter.
This is why we started actually watering the topsoil substrate on our tortoise table. We use a 2.5 gallon
galvanized steel watering can, and we pour anywhere from 2.5 to 5 gallons of water all over the substrate at
least twice a week during the wintertime. After being watered, the humidity at table-level rises to 40 to 50
percent within about a half-hour, and it will slowly decrease over time.
Folks who live in more humid areas probably wouldn't need to do this, nor should they. It's just incredibly dry
here due to extended drought, and we find that we need to provide the additional moisture.
What some people do is what Steph suggests - light misting of the environment. I
would suggest doing this, but I would also try to create a gradient so the tortoise has
a choice between areas of higher humidity and lower, just as we supply areas of
higher temperature and lower. As you said, high humidity is also not something that
we want - particularly stagnant highly humid air.
We originally tried just misting the substrate with a spray bottle, but found that it just didn't raise the humidity
enough. Spray bottles got the very topmost layer of substrate wet, but the stuff underneath remained dry.
Once our tortoises dug through the top layer, they pretty much got rid of all the moisture available. This is
why we switched to the watering can. We also use a small gardening fork to mix the substrate as we water,
so that all of it the substrate is wetted.
The substrate directly underneath their heat lamps (on a 12 hour timer) dries out relatively quickly. The
corners where the torts sleep remain more humid, so they can choose for themselves where to go.
Basically we have to try to duplicate something that we cannot duplicate - so we do
our best to make up for it in other ways.
As Darryl pointed out in a subsequent post, we are trying to duplicate the conditions found in a sulcata
burrow, where the ambient humidity has been measured at between 40 to 60 percent. This prevents our
torts from getting dehydrated and running into health problems as a result.

 

[Tom]

1.Yes they do have a place to hide, and that's where they sleep there's two logs for them.
With the humidity box, all I have to do is cut out a little plastic box, like a tupperware kind of thing, and put what kind of soil on there? They currently have a mix of cypress mulch and forest floor. And then just mist the ground every couple times a day for them?

2.Okay, and they get some sunshine, but its hard to now because it cold out...?
3. What is the name of the bulb for night time?

Thanks, yeah I love the little guys, I always want to make sure they're healthy, just had one baby pass from hatchling failure, so from now on any little thing I get worried about :/

1. Good news on the hide. To make a humid hide box, I use a plastic "shoe box" type set-up of the appropriate size. Using a dremel tool or hole saw, I cut an entrance on one side. I also like to drill a couple of quarter inch vent holes on opposing sides for a little cross ventilation. I usually use coco coir, but your existing substrate will work fine too. Just keep it wetter in there. Damp, but not dripping.

You need to dump a bunch of water into the rest of the substrate AND mist it several times a day. How much water to dump, and how often, will depend on how fast it dries out in your house. I like to keep it damp. I think Chad is advocating wetting one end or the other so they have a choice of humidity. Nothing wrong with that, but since they are already pyramiding, I'd go wetter. You'll have to try out what works best for you.

2. North American winter can be a difficult time for sulcata owners. Just do your best. The more sunshine the better, but they won't just fall over dead without it for a little while. The mercury vapor type bulbs are the best substitute that I've found.

3. I like to use "Pearlco" brand CHE, but there are others that are cheaper and probably work about the same.

How cold does it get in the room where your tortoises sleep at night? You do have a proper temperature measuring device, don't you?(Insert stern, questioning look here).

 

[chandlerledray]

That all sounds good, I'm about to make a humid box right now...

Yes of course! I do have a thermometer! It gets to about 68 at night time, and they feel kind of cold in the morning when I turn on their lights.

---

Also, is timothy hay alright for them? I found some that I bought a while ago but never gave them

 

[DonaTello's-Mom]

All grass hays are good for them, if you can get them to eat! I feed mine timothy too. Just cut it up into smaller pieces for them to eat. They love to make a "nest" bed out of it too.

 

[Tom]

RE: my two little ones have proper lighting, and get soaked daily, but they look dry.

That all sounds good, I'm about to make a humid box right now...

Yes of course! I do have a thermometer! It gets to about 68 at night time, and they feel kind of cold in the morning when I turn on their lights.

---

Also, is timothy hay alright for them? I found some that I bought a while ago but never gave them

---

It won't hurt anything to give them some night time heat from a CHE. You are right on the border line. You MIGHT be fine without it as long as they are getting good and warm during the day, every day.

Timothy Hay, Orchard Grass Hay and Bermuda Hay are my favorites. For smaller tortoises I use scissors and hold a clump in my other hand and cut a small amount of finely chopped dry grass onto their regular food. This will get them started eating it, but I usually don't bother with this until they are 6-8" long. In the mean time you can give it to them to play/hide in and they may even nibble on their own. Just make sure it doesn't get wet and moldy, since you are bumping up your humidity.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

From what I see in those pictures she's got the wrong substrate. Look at the size of those rocks in there. Those babies are going to get "splay leg" from walking on them and I can't imagine that they hold any moisture. Here's a care sheet I think I have given you before...

http://africantortoise.com/

I think you need to get them off that substrate and get either cypress mulch or bed a beast also called coir. Roachman has given you really good advice you need to listen to him. But if you had the correct substrate they wouldn't need a humid hide I have never used one. Get a better substrate and keep it moist and that will create the needed humidity...I use a black light bulb for heat at night. Like Yvonne says they are $3 at Kmart. I don't like my babies getting cold so I have a black bulb in every habitat I have...You need to get rid of that coil light immediately. I had one hatchling blinded by them, you need to get rid of that bulb now.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

When I was in Petco this morning I looked for substrate that looks like what I see in the pictures. In person it doesn't look as bad as I thought. But I personally wouldn't use it. However, the chunks don't look as big in person, but I don't see how it would hold enough moisture to create the needed humidity to prevent pyramiding. I would go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get a substrate as close to cypress mulch as I could find. But if you do that you need to not get anything with pine in it as pine is toxic for tortoises...in fact, I am going to go to Home Depot tomorrow to see what I can get for substrate and I will let you know what is available. You need to get rid of the coil bulbs tho. I had a small yearling Sulcata blinded by those bulbs, so I am speaking from experience in that respect...

 

[chandlerledray]

Yeah, I got rid of the coil bulbs..
the substrate isn't as big as it looks in the picture, but I am going to the store and get a bag of cypress mulch tomorrow.

I'm not making this hard, I'm just trying to give the best for my babies...

 

[Maggie Cummings]

When I went to Petco this morning I looked at your substrate and it didn't look as bad in person with me looking at it in the store as it looks in the pictures. But the cypress mulch that I would like to use is seriously too expensive at Petco that's why I'm going to Home Depot tomorrow. I wouldn't pay that money at Petco and I don't think you should either. Don't you have a Lowes or a HD close to you?

 

[chandlerledray]

Yeah, I got the substrate they have now at a convention.

There's a HD and Lowes down the street, I'm going to go tomorrow,

 

[chandlerledray]

here's their humid box

how do i keep it moist all the time ?

 

[Tom]

To keep it moist all the time, you have to do a combination of things:

1. Dump a lot of water in there. How much and how often depends on your individual situation. I'd start with a half gallon a day and adjust up or down from there. In my area, that wouldn't be enough, in some areas, they'd be swimming within days.

2. Mist. Early and often.

3. I, and some others, have to run a humidifier in the room. How is your room?

4. Whether they NEED a humid hide box or not, it won't hurt anything. Keep it wetter in there.

5. Cover most of the top. Again, dependent upon your situation. I HAVE to do this. Others CAN'T do this.

BTW, I like your set-up. It looks like a nice place to be a sulcata. Oh. And have I mentioned SUNSHINE for them. Oh yeah, like 5 or 6 times already... sorry. Can't help myself....