New and worried!

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

Hi! I am an unintentional new Russian tortoise owner with all the questions! My kids and I found a Russian whilst out on a walk in east Maryland in early September and after brought him home- the habitat we live in is extremely wet and humid and I figured we could give him a better life then out in that environment. Knowing he had to be a Pet release we took him in and named him Napoleon and have been trying to do well by him.
My concern at the moment is I didn’t understand brumation well enough and now I’m concerned it’s too late and I’m not sure what next step we should take. He is in a wooden box we made about 4x3 with a mix of dirt and sand substrate and some grasses. He has a basking spot with both uvb and uva lights and our kitchen is bright for 12 hours of the day. He was super happy and pretty regular in routine for the first two months and then when we changed clocks and it began getting darker earlier was around the time he began to sleep more and eat less. He would dig down for a day and the come out in the morning, bask, have a snack and go back in bed. Then in the last 5ish days we haven’t seen him. We can hear him scratch at the wall a bit so we know he’s alive but I’m not sure what I’m to do. I didn’t know I needed to prepare him to brumate (I think I read bad info initially) and I’m not sure if that’s what he is trying to do but it definitely doesn’t get down to 50 f in my kitchen but I’m afraid to just cold turkey put him in a box outside.

Help! How should I move forward! I truly want to do him as best as I can. Thanks for your help. Please be kind.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! For the brumation side of things he needs to be properly prepared, you can find all the information about that in this thread below and @Tom can help answer any further questions on it.

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

As this is his first winter with you, I’d personally skip this year, but again let Tom advise.

I’d definitely change substrate as soon as you’re able, sand is an impaction risk

Now housing wise, if he’s an adult he does need much larger than a 4x3 space, do you have your own garden to start building a secure enclosure in? If not he’ll need a large indoor set up, if indoor space is an issue, there’s a few ways to tackle this.

I’d recommend using this thread to double check your equipment(it’s easy to be recommended the wrong bulbs) and check all your environmental levels are correct. This thread covers correct equipment, levels, sizing, appropriately maintaining the humidity, substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet link to check out!

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This one includes some inspiration for both indoors and out, plus ways to tackle indoor space whilst still allowing for the all important roaming room

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, probably the most important, this one is also really good to familiarise yourself with, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help! Happy to try and answer any further questions once you’ve read them, welcome to the forum! Would love a photo of the tortoise! Bless you for taking him in, did you try to find the owner? They’re professional escape artists

 

[Tom]

Hi! I am an unintentional new Russian tortoise owner with all the questions! My kids and I found a Russian whilst out on a walk in east Maryland in early September and after brought him home- the habitat we live in is extremely wet and humid and I figured we could give him a better life then out in that environment. Knowing he had to be a Pet release we took him in and named him Napoleon and have been trying to do well by him.
My concern at the moment is I didn’t understand brumation well enough and now I’m concerned it’s too late and I’m not sure what next step we should take. He is in a wooden box we made about 4x3 with a mix of dirt and sand substrate and some grasses. He has a basking spot with both uvb and uva lights and our kitchen is bright for 12 hours of the day. He was super happy and pretty regular in routine for the first two months and then when we changed clocks and it began getting darker earlier was around the time he began to sleep more and eat less. He would dig down for a day and the come out in the morning, bask, have a snack and go back in bed. Then in the last 5ish days we haven’t seen him. We can hear him scratch at the wall a bit so we know he’s alive but I’m not sure what I’m to do. I didn’t know I needed to prepare him to brumate (I think I read bad info initially) and I’m not sure if that’s what he is trying to do but it definitely doesn’t get down to 50 f in my kitchen but I’m afraid to just cold turkey put him in a box outside.

Help! How should I move forward! I truly want to do him as best as I can. Thanks for your help. Please be kind.

Hello and welcome! Read that brumation thread, and then we can go from there. All your questions are welcome and we will be happy to help.

 

[SinLA]

Thank you for rescuing him! Erverything you need to know is above, its a LOT to get through but worth the read.

Also you may want to post - he may not be a pet dump but a pet escapee - Russians are known as serious escape artists...

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

Hello and welcome! Read that brumation thread, and then we can go from there. All your questions are welcome and we will be happy to help.

Hi! Thanks so much for replying! I read the thread and think he has started to brumate regardless of me not changing anything. I want to brumate him if that’s best. Is there another page that gives a brumation for super dummies? I can’t stick him in our fridge but I do have an insulated box I can use but where do I put that? Our temps here range between 30-50 for the most part so could I keep it on my screened in porch with a temp gauge to watch it? What is my step by step (days by day) guide to undo what I’ve lot done and starting so late. he hasn’t eaten in like a week but I also haven’t soaked him bc I thought I should leave him be. Ahhh help me help him

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

Hello and welcome! Read that brumation thread, and then we can go from there. All your questions are welcome and we will be happy to help.

Hi! Thanks so much for replying! I read the thread and think he has started to brumate regardless of me not changing anything. I want to brumate him if that’s best. Is there another page that gives a brumation for super dummies? I can’t stick him in our fridge but I do have an insulated box I can use but where do I put that? Our temps here range between 30-50 for the most part so could I keep it on my screened in porch with a temp gauge to watch it? What is my step by step (days by day) guide to undo what I’ve lot done he hasn’t eaten in like a week but I also haven’t soaked him bc I thought I should leave him be. Ahhh help me help him

But also here’s a pic

Hello! For the brumation side of things he needs to be properly prepared, you can find all the information about that in this thread below and @Tom can help answer any further questions on it.

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

As this is his first winter with you, I’d personally skip this year, but again let Tom advise.

I’d definitely change substrate as soon as you’re able, sand is an impaction risk

Now housing wise, if he’s an adult he does need much larger than a 4x3 space, do you have your own garden to start building a secure enclosure in? If not he’ll need a large indoor set up, if indoor space is an issue, there’s a few ways to tackle this.

I’d recommend using this thread to double check your equipment(it’s easy to be recommended the wrong bulbs) and check all your environmental levels are correct. This thread covers correct equipment, levels, sizing, appropriately maintaining the humidity, substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet link to check out!

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This one includes some inspiration for both indoors and out, plus ways to tackle indoor space whilst still allowing for the all important roaming room

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, probably the most important, this one is also really good to familiarise yourself with, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help! Happy to try and answer any further questions once you’ve read them, welcome to the forum! Would love a photo of the tortoise! Bless you for taking him in, did you try to find the owner? They’re professional escape artists

Thank you for rescuing him! Erverything you need to know is above, its a LOT to get through but worth the read.

Also you may want to post - he may not be a pet dump but a pet escapee - Russians are known as serious escape artists...

Thanks! I will post on our local fb page

 

[Tom]

Hi! Thanks so much for replying! I read the thread and think he has started to brumate regardless of me not changing anything. I want to brumate him if that’s best. Is there another page that gives a brumation for super dummies? I can’t stick him in our fridge but I do have an insulated box I can use but where do I put that? Our temps here range between 30-50 for the most part so could I keep it on my screened in porch with a temp gauge to watch it? What is my step by step (days by day) guide to undo what I’ve lot done and starting so late. he hasn’t eaten in like a week but I also haven’t soaked him bc I thought I should leave him be. Ahhh help me help him

Okay. Take a deep breathe...

1. Dig him out tomorrow and give him a warm soak. Leave the temperatures and lights as is. Do this daily for about a week.
2. At the end of that week, he will have gone two weeks with no food, but still with warm temps and warm soaks to help empty the gut. Now start shortening the days on your light timer to 8 hours, then six, then four, and eventually have the lights staying off after about two weeks. Cool the house or enclosure during this time if possible. Meaning lower your thermostat, or turn off any tortoise night heat.
3. Now it's been a month with no food, and the lights are off and it's cooler. Stick him wherever you want that is cold and consistent. Ideally, 36-39 degrees. Best if it's dark. I use a few inches of whatever substrate they have in their main enclosure in the hibernation box. You can throw some dried leaves or shredded newspaper over him too. He won't eat anything in this state. Try to keep it dark and quiet. If your insulated box stays in that temp range, great! But don't let it drop below freezing or you could freeze his eyeballs or possibly kill him. That is why a fridge is safer. Doesn't it drop below 30 in MD in winter? Is that insulated box going to stay above 36? Will it stay below 39 on a warm sunny winter day? Check this or your fridge during the next couple of weeks to determine the best place to put him.
4. Monitor the temperature of the hibernacula daily or at least frequently, and leave him alone for 12-16 weeks.
5. In spring, when you see a warm spell coming in the 10 day forecast, pull him out and leave him in his enclosure at room temp over night with no lights or heat. Turn lights on in the morning and see how he behaves. Turn on the heat lamps, and give him a lukewarm shallow soak. Give him a couple few days to revive and start feeding.

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

Hi! Thanks so much for replying! I read the thread and think he has started to brumate regardless of me not changing anything. I want to brumate him if that’s best. Is there another page that gives a brumation for super dummies? I can’t stick him in our fridge but I do have an insulated box I can use but where do I put that? Our temps here range between 30-50 for the most part so could I keep it on my screened in porch with a temp gauge to watch it? What is my step by step (days by day) guide to undo what I’ve lot done he hasn’t eaten in like a week but I also haven’t soaked him bc I thought I should leave him be. Ahhh help me help him

But also here’s a pic


Thanks! I will post on our local fb page

Okay. Take a deep breathe...

1. Dig him out tomorrow and give him a warm soak. Leave the temperatures and lights as is. Do this daily for about a week.
2. At the end of that week, he will have gone two weeks with no food, but still with warm temps and warm soaks to help empty the gut. Now start shortening the days on your light timer to 8 hours, then six, then four, and eventually have the lights staying off after about two weeks. Cool the house or enclosure during this time if possible. Meaning lower your thermostat, or turn off any tortoise night heat.
3. Now it's been a month with no food, and the lights are off and it's cooler. Stick him wherever you want that is cold and consistent. Ideally, 36-39 degrees. Best if it's dark. I use a few inches of whatever substrate they have in their main enclosure in the hibernation box. You can throw some dried leaves or shredded newspaper over him too. He won't eat anything in this state. Try to keep it dark and quiet. If your insulated box stays in that temp range, great! But don't let it drop below freezing or you could freeze his eyeballs or possibly kill him. That is why a fridge is safer. Doesn't it drop below 30 in MD in winter? Is that insulated box going to stay above 36? Will it stay below 39 on a warm sunny winter day? Check this or your fridge during the next couple of weeks to determine the best place to put him.
4. Monitor the temperature of the hibernacula daily or at least frequently, and leave him alone for 12-16 weeks.
5. In spring, when you see a warm spell coming in the 10 day forecast, pull him out and leave him in his enclosure at room temp over night with no lights or heat. Turn lights on in the morning and see how he behaves. Turn on the heat lamps, and give him a lukewarm shallow soak. Give him a couple few days to revive and start feeding.

Thank you so much- starting this today. I’ve read a bunch of ur info now and am working on making a better set up for him- there’s so much different info out there - it’s hard to know who to trust! Thank u for all ur help

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

Okay. Take a deep breathe...

1. Dig him out tomorrow and give him a warm soak. Leave the temperatures and lights as is. Do this daily for about a week.
2. At the end of that week, he will have gone two weeks with no food, but still with warm temps and warm soaks to help empty the gut. Now start shortening the days on your light timer to 8 hours, then six, then four, and eventually have the lights staying off after about two weeks. Cool the house or enclosure during this time if possible. Meaning lower your thermostat, or turn off any tortoise night heat.
3. Now it's been a month with no food, and the lights are off and it's cooler. Stick him wherever you want that is cold and consistent. Ideally, 36-39 degrees. Best if it's dark. I use a few inches of whatever substrate they have in their main enclosure in the hibernation box. You can throw some dried leaves or shredded newspaper over him too. He won't eat anything in this state. Try to keep it dark and quiet. If your insulated box stays in that temp range, great! But don't let it drop below freezing or you could freeze his eyeballs or possibly kill him. That is why a fridge is safer. Doesn't it drop below 30 in MD in winter? Is that insulated box going to stay above 36? Will it stay below 39 on a warm sunny winter day? Check this or your fridge during the next couple of weeks to determine the best place to put him.
4. Monitor the temperature of the hibernacula daily or at least frequently, and leave him alone for 12-16 weeks.
5. In spring, when you see a warm spell coming in the 10 day forecast, pull him out and leave him in his enclosure at room temp over night with no lights or heat. Turn lights on in the morning and see how he behaves. Turn on the heat lamps, and give him a lukewarm shallow soak. Give him a couple few days to revive and start feeding.

I just soaked him and getting all the things prepped! Thank u again!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you so much- starting this today. I’ve read a bunch of ur info now and am working on making a better set up for him- there’s so much different info out there - it’s hard to know who to trust! Thank u for all ur help

I know firsthand how confusing research can feel, trust me when I say sticking to this forum as your only source of information will save you SO much confusion! There’s just too much outdated and incorrect care information out there, this place is made up of members around the world, some of which have raised different species for years, perfecting their care over time to raise healthy smooth tortoises long term, it’s a hive mind of information and you can always challenge the answers to get to the nitty gritty of the information you need

I’d remove that hay as it’s prone to moulding and these guys aren’t grass eaters anyway

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

I know firsthand how confusing research can feel, trust me when I say sticking to this forum as your only source of information will save you SO much confusion! There’s just too much outdated and incorrect care information out there, this place is made up of members around the world, some of which have raised different species for years, perfecting their care over time to raise healthy smooth tortoises long term, it’s a hive mind of information and you can always challenge the answers to get to the nitty gritty of the information you need

I’d remove that hay as it’s prone to moulding and these guys aren’t grass eaters anyway

It is a lot! Thankful for but overwhelmed by this forum. It’s dry grasses not hay, is that ok? He seems to like to burrow in them.

 

[Tom]

It is a lot! Thankful for but overwhelmed by this forum. It’s dry grasses not hay, is that ok? He seems to like to burrow in them.

"Hay" = dried grasses. It molds on a damp substrate, and the substrate needs to be lightly damp, so the hay needs to go.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

It is a lot! Thankful for but overwhelmed by this forum. It’s dry grasses not hay, is that ok? He seems to like to burrow in them.

He might like an under layer of coir under some orchid bark, he can happily burrow in that and it’s much safer

Aw don’t you worry, again I know how overwhelming it can feel, but there’s wonderful people on here that will help advise you on each step, in time you’ll get into the swing of it all

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

"Hay" = dried grasses. It molds on a damp substrate, and the substrate needs to be lightly damp, so the hay needs to go.

Here’s what I have so far. My husband gets these insulated boxes each month for medication so all sides are insulated with a cardboard box and then I fit a plastic tub inside. What’s the best thing to put in the bottom? I plan on sticking it out on our screened in porch bc our temps range between 20-50 all winter. I’m going to test it the next few weeks as I prep him and watch the temp gauge that I’ll stick inside. I think I can add cooler bags if needed or a bit of heat on the outside if needed but I’ll play around a bit. Does this sound ok?
Question: And when he’s all prepped and ready I will just lift him while he sleeps from his indoor lodging and out him in his box, right? Feels so scary to think of just sticking him in a box and trusting that I’ve done it properly and he will just wake up come spring! I’m again so thankful for your help.

 

[Tom]

Does this sound ok?

Not really. Sounds pretty iffy. Your thermometer will tell the tale, but if there is a sudden and unexpected cold snap while you are at work or sleeping at night, your tortoise could freeze.

You need some way to maintain the correct temperature range day and night for several months in a row regardless of what the weather is doing all winter long. I don't know if that can be accomplished in a little insulated box sitting outside. Doesn't seem likely to me.

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

Not really. Sounds pretty iffy. Your thermometer will tell the tale, but if there is a sudden and unexpected cold snap while you are at work or sleeping at night, your tortoise could freeze.

You need some way to maintain the correct temperature range day and night for several months in a row regardless of what the weather is doing all winter long. I don't know if that can be accomplished in a little insulated box sitting outside. Doesn't seem likely to me.

Ok. I will try to figure something out. A refrigerator really isn’t an option.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Hi! I am an unintentional new Russian tortoise owner with all the questions! My kids and I found a Russian whilst out on a walk in east Maryland in early September and after brought him home- the habitat we live in is extremely wet and humid and I figured we could give him a better life then out in that environment. Knowing he had to be a Pet release we took him in and named him Napoleon and have been trying to do well by him.
My concern at the moment is I didn’t understand brumation well enough and now I’m concerned it’s too late and I’m not sure what next step we should take. He is in a wooden box we made about 4x3 with a mix of dirt and sand substrate and some grasses. He has a basking spot with both uvb and uva lights and our kitchen is bright for 12 hours of the day. He was super happy and pretty regular in routine for the first two months and then when we changed clocks and it began getting darker earlier was around the time he began to sleep more and eat less. He would dig down for a day and the come out in the morning, bask, have a snack and go back in bed. Then in the last 5ish days we haven’t seen him. We can hear him scratch at the wall a bit so we know he’s alive but I’m not sure what I’m to do. I didn’t know I needed to prepare him to brumate (I think I read bad info initially) and I’m not sure if that’s what he is trying to do but it definitely doesn’t get down to 50 f in my kitchen but I’m afraid to just cold turkey put him in a box outside.

Help! How should I move forward! I truly want to do him as best as I can. Thanks for your help. Please be kind.

I see you are getting great advice from Tom, our resident expert on everything chelonian...however, even tho you got good brumation advice, nobody told you that you don't have to allow him to brumate and go thru all that stuff that Tom just told you...I have been a tortoise keeper for about 20 years, and I have NEVER brumate or hibernated any tortoise. In the beginning I was told it's only necessary if you are gonna breed him. So all my animals stay up all winter...lights are on for 12 hours, soaked and fed. My animals are healthy and I just don't think that a tort in a box/refer all winter is a good pet to have...just my opinion

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I see you are getting great advice from Tom, our resident expert on everything chelonian...however, even tho you got good brumation advice, nobody told you that you don't have to allow him to brumate and go thru all that stuff that Tom just told you...I have been a tortoise keeper for about 20 years, and I have NEVER brumate or hibernated any tortoise. In the beginning I was told it's only necessary if you are gonna breed him. So all my animals stay up all winter...lights are on for 12 hours, soaked and fed. My animals are healthy and I just don't think that a tort in a box/refer all winter is a good pet to have...just my opinion

Yeah we should’ve mentioned this! All very true, you can save yourself the stress, especially as this is currently all new this year, however if trying to keep him awake under good lighting and heat doesn’t work and he’s naturally wanting to brumate, hopefully folks can advise on next steps

 

[Napolean’s turtle mom]

Yeah we should’ve mentioned this! All very true, you can save yourself the stress, especially as this is currently all new this year, however if trying to keep him awake under good lighting and heat doesn’t work and he’s naturally wanting to brumate, hopefully folks can advise on next steps

Yes it feels so scary to be so unprepared for brummation but the changes to the current box seem more easily changed then trying to make a Hiberniculum.