New member

[dotty]

Hi all
Newbie here, I have 2 Herman's tortoises called flash and Murph they are 15months old..and we have had them since July. I'm still learning about them and settling them in. My only concern at the moment is flash has lost weight in the last month an actual total of of 10g she is eating and very active but now much smaller them her sister..we feed them weeds, plants, kale, romaine...any advice would be really grateful 🙏
Flash is on the right

 

[zolasmum]

Welcome from Devon . I have a Hermanns tortoise too - Zola - he is 23 now.
The reason for tortoises kept in pairs often to differ in size is that one is bullying the other - there are usually very subtle signs of this happening. If you can separate them, it might make a big difference - Flash might start to grow again.
I am not an expert, and am not really able to give advice about care and housing, etc, but I'm sure there will be more knowledgable people here soon.
Meanwhile, have a think about the bullying - it can often be disguised as friendship!
Angie

 

[wellington]

They should not be housed together, so if you are separate them ASAP!
Also feed more weeds and plants then kale and romaine. Feed kale and romaine sparingly.
Better store greens are arugula, ridicchio, endive

 

[wellington]

Also, how are you housing them? Size of enclosure?
Temps?
Humidity?
All that is involved with them will help us better.

 

[dotty]

They should not be housed together, so if you are separate them ASAP!
Also feed more weeds and plants then kale and romaine. Feed kale and romaine sparingly.
Better store greens are arugula, ridicchio, endive

I'm home all day and constantly keep an eye on their behaver, they literally take no notice of each other and live in a 5ft by 2 1/2 ft table (just made for them) so hopefully this size table will help the situation. They mostly have dandelion leafs, I grow Hollyhocks, nasturtiums pansies ect..
I have noticed since the colder weather I'm struggling to keep the temp up?? It's about 28c now under their basking area ??

Also, how are you housing them? Size of enclosure?
Temps?
Humidity?
All that is involved with them will help us better.

 

[Tom]

I'm home all day and constantly keep an eye on their behaver, they literally take no notice of each other and live in a 5ft by 2 1/2 ft table (just made for them) so hopefully this size table will help the situation. They mostly have dandelion leafs, I grow Hollyhocks, nasturtiums pansies ect..
I have noticed since the colder weather I'm struggling to keep the temp up?? It's about 28c now under their basking area ??

Yes they do notice each other every second of every day, and it causes terrible chronic stress. They should never be kept in pairs. Groups of juveniles can usually work, but not pairs, and you are seeing the result. Separate them ASAP. Don't let the little one decline any farther that it already has.

28C is okay for a daytime ambient, but it needs to be 36-37C directly under the basking flood bulb. Lower the basking bulb, or add more wattage, or add another bulb, or up the ambient temperature in the entire enclosure or the whole room.

Babies do much better in a closed chamber, aka: vivarium.

Hello and welcome! Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TammyJ]

I am advising you to immediately separate them from each other. Tortoises do not live in pairs, and pet tortoises should be housed SEPARATELY if you want them to be healthy and comfortable. Humans show stress differently from tortoises, and whether or not you see anything, domination and stress and bullying are definitely happening, and they are both uncomfortable. It's just a fact to be accepted by you, and rectified, or not, it's up to you as their owner.

 

[dotty]

Welcome from Devon . I have a Hermanns tortoise too - Zola - he is 23 now.
The reason for tortoises kept in pairs often to differ in size is that one is bullying the other - there are usually very subtle signs of this happening. If you can separate them, it might make a big difference - Flash might start to grow again.
I am not an expert, and am not really able to give advice about care and housing, etc, but I'm sure there will be more knowledgable people here soon.
Meanwhile, have a think about the bullying - it can often be disguised as friendship!
Angie

Thank you Angie, they literally take no notice of eachother at all, they have separate areas to eat, flash is much more active the Murph..Murph is quite lazy, I've just moved them into a big table that we made so fingers crossed. I've also just ordered some dry clovers ect to sprinkle now and again on their food

 

[TammyJ]

Welcome to the best forum for giving your tortoise the best possible care!

 

[dotty]

Yes they do notice each other every second of every day, and it causes terrible chronic stress. They should never be kept in pairs. Groups of juveniles can usually work, but not pairs, and you are seeing the result. Separate them ASAP. Don't let the little one decline any farther that it already has.

28C is okay for a daytime ambient, but it needs to be 36-37C directly under the basking flood bulb. Lower the basking bulb, or add more wattage, or add another bulb, or up the ambient temperature in the entire enclosure or the whole room.

Babies do much better in a closed chamber, aka: vivarium.

Hello and welcome! Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for your help..its a 150 watt lamp uv and uvb together, what do I need it I have separate ones?

 

[dotty]

Welcome to the best forum for giving your tortoise the best possible care!

Thank you tammyj

 

[dotty]

I am advising you to immediately separate them from each other. Tortoises do not live in pairs, and pet tortoises should be housed SEPARATELY if you want them to be healthy and comfortable. Humans show stress differently from tortoises, and whether or not you see anything, domination and stress and bullying are definitely happening, and they are both uncomfortable. It's just a fact to be accepted by you, and rectified, or not, it's up to you as their owner.

Thank you tammy...I shall seriously think about separating them I have a spare table will just need to get the lighting ect...

Thank u

 

[TammyJ]

Thank you tammy...I shall seriously think about separating them I have a spare table will just need to get the lighting ect...

Thank u

I promise you that even if put in a smaller temporary tub for a few days, your separated tortoise will begin to relax and eventually to thrive!

 

[wellington]

Thank you tammy...I shall seriously think about separating them I have a spare table will just need to get the lighting ect...

Thank u

If you want the best for them, you will follow the advice given. Many more years of experience trying to help you than the experience you have.
If you don't want to do the best for them, then don't change a thing.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you for your help..its a 150 watt lamp uv and uvb together, what do I need it I have separate ones?

Probably you have MVB (mercury vapor bulb). It's bad for tortoise shell (drying it quick) and UV levels are sometimes unpredictably high or too low. You need T5 type lamp (long straight tube) to provide essential UVB and a simple incadescent lamp to provide warmth and light at the basking spot. Tom has given you a link to a post for new keepers, it should be outlined there.

Considering separation - just imagine yourself living in a small studio apartments with an ugly grumpy guy who is not willing to make friends or talk with you, takes and eats your food from the fridge, sleeps in your bed whenever we wants, bumps in you whenever you are in his way. But don't attack or offend you directly with words. That's very similar to what your tortoise feels.

 

[Yvonne G]

Thank you Angie, they literally take no notice of eachother at all, they have separate areas to eat, flash is much more active the Murph..Murph is quite lazy, I've just moved them into a big table that we made so fingers crossed. I've also just ordered some dry clovers ect to sprinkle now and again on their food

You are not seeing outward signs of bullying or of them noticing each other, but, please believe me, they DO notice each other. It's a mental thing. The larger tortoise is constantly telling the smaller tortoise to get out of his territory. Because they are housed together and the smaller one can't "get out," it is very stressful for both of them. They need to be separated.

 

[dotty]

Probably you have MVB (mercury vapor bulb). It's bad for tortoise shell (drying it quick) and UV levels are sometimes unpredictably high or too low. You need T5 type lamp (long straight tube) to provide essential UVB and a simple incadescent lamp to provide warmth and light at the basking spot. Tom has given you a link to a post for new keepers, it should be outlined there.

Considering separation - just imagine yourself living in a small studio apartments with an ugly grumpy guy who is not willing to make friends or talk with you, takes and eats your food from the fridge, sleeps in your bed whenever we wants, bumps in you whenever you are in his way. But don't attack or offend you directly with words. That's very similar to what your tortoise feels.

Thank you..I'm looking online now for a t5 lamp...its a mind field, I don't want people thinking I didn't research and ask advice for tortoise owners, I did research for months before getting them but theirs so many mixed options etc... and yes all I want is the best for them totally

 

[dotty]

Thank you..I'm looking online now for a t5 lamp...its a mind field, I don't want people thinking I didn't research and ask advice for tortoise owners, I did research for months before getting them but theirs so many mixed options etc... and yes all I want is the best for them totally

How do I know what wattage to buy?

 

[dotty]

Yes they do notice each other every second of every day, and it causes terrible chronic stress. They should never be kept in pairs. Groups of juveniles can usually work, but not pairs, and you are seeing the result. Separate them ASAP. Don't let the little one decline any farther that it already has.

28C is okay for a daytime ambient, but it needs to be 36-37C directly under the basking flood bulb. Lower the basking bulb, or add more wattage, or add another bulb, or up the ambient temperature in the entire enclosure or the whole room.

Babies do much better in a closed chamber, aka: vivarium.

Hello and welcome! Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Hi Tom
Does this look correct?
Your help is much appreciated and I will be separating them as soon as I can purchase 2x of the correct heat and light source

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you..I'm looking online now for a t5 lamp...its a mind field, I don't want people thinking I didn't research and ask advice for tortoise owners, I did research for months before getting them but theirs so many mixed options etc... and yes all I want is the best for them totally

I completely understand you. I was lucky enough to find this forum a year ago with clear concise care sheets from Tom and others (and later I've found discussions and reasoning behind every point), so I've decided to stick to it as a sole information source.

--
On lamps:
1. Yes, the ProT5 Desert 12% is a correct type. If you place enclosures side by side, you can use one long lamp and fixture for both. If not - get the shortest ones (22W). Lamp should be placed approximately 18 inch high over tortoise shell, near the basking spot bulb. Place it on timer for 3-4 hours a day.
2. For basking spot 65-75W should be enough (150W is usually an overkill). And you can get incandescent lamp from a hardware store, it's not essential to have one from Arcadia