New Russian Tortoise Help

[RachB]

Hi. I'm hoping that maybe someone here can help me. Ill give all the information that I have about the little guy but unfortunately that isn't much.

I got him yesterday from a work friend of my mum, i am supposed to be looking after him until the weekend when he then will go on to live with my partner. However he's really not looking too well.
All we were told before getting him was that he was a baby and the work friends daughter no longer wanted him as a pet. He was picked up by my mum who unfortunately didn't question much of what was said and all that was told to her was that he was taking longer to come out of hibernation that usual. It seems like the previous owner hasn't had him long and had received him from someone else so we have no idea how old he is or even the exact species. (when we asked the former owner she said her was a Hermann but after some research and asking on reddit it appears he could be a Russian)
Since he came to me he hasn't moved much (when i first put him into his enclosure under the basking lamp he looked like he was shrugging his shoulders but all that movement has stopped now) his eyes have also been closed the entire time. I tried giving him a warm bath yesterday but he didn't react to it at all, i also believe he hasn't eaten anything although i haven't watched him 24/7. I moved him to the cooler area of the enclosure under a log last night and turned off the basking bulb and turned on the heat pad that's in that side of the enclosure (it's stuck to the top) and this morning i moved him back to the warmer area. I can see he's breathing (by using a dandelion seed head) but he's doing nothing else.
If anyone could give me any help it would be greatly appreciated. I unfortunately cannot take him to a vet right now but may be able to later in the day if that's needed

 

[COmtnLady]

Welcome!

How old is it? If you don't know, next buest thing is how big is this tortoise? (Measure the bottom shell (plastron) longway, from neck to tail.)

It sounds like the people before didn't know what they were doing. If it is a baby it shouldn't be brumating (hibernating) yet. Its possible they have allowed it to become so dehydrated that it is near dying.

Soak the tortoise in warm water that is only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together. Soak for a half hour or more, every day. The water should be in the 95F/35C degree range. (I'm assuming you don't have a good way to measure temps, so Run the water on the inside of your wrist, If it is too cold or too hot for you, it will be for the tortoise, too. Have feel slightly warmer than not feeling like anything.) Since it's so droopy watch closely that it can keep its head up far enough out of the water to not drown. Its ok for it to dip its head down into the water for a second, but watch and make sure it has enough strength to lift its head to breathe. It is really important the water be warm. Replace it as need to keep the temp up/warm. When a tort is ill it needs to be warmed up.


It also needs for the enclosure you are keeping it in to be warm and humid until it is perked up some. This is for raising babies, but is a good "hospital" enclosure. I don't cut the door into the sides and top, just lift the top when I need access.

How to make a closed-chamber baby habitat out of a 55gal Sterilite bin

Since several folks have asked about how to make a closed chamber baby enclosure out of a 55gal Sterilite tote, here are some pics and description of how I do. This is not the most beautiful option, but since the babies will only be in here for 9-12 months, I'm okay with that. My own Russian...

tortoiseforum.org

Do not feed it any fruit. This type of tortoise can't digest it well and fruit destroys their gut bacteria that helps them digest their food.


Please read this

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Care for an adult is different than care for a hatchling, so here are teh sheets for each:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Welcome to the forum!

That shrugging shoulders movement you describe is probably him breathing heavily, tortoise don't have digrhams so their limbs move when breathing.

COmtnLady gave some good advice, start by soaking and then figure out how to provide the best conditions for his recovery.

Some pictures of the tortoise and the current set up will help us give you better advice.

 

[RachB]

Welcome!

How old is it? If you don't know, next buest thing is how big is this tortoise? (Measure the bottom shell (plastron) longway, from neck to tail.)

It sounds like the people before didn't know what they were doing. If it is a baby it shouldn't be brumating (hibernating) yet. Its possible they have allowed it to become so dehydrated that it is near dying.

Soak the tortoise in warm water that is only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together. Soak for a half hour or more, every day. The water should be in the 95F/35C degree range. (I'm assuming you don't have a good way to measure temps, so Run the water on the inside of your wrist, If it is too cold or too hot for you, it will be for the tortoise, too. Have feel slightly warmer than not feeling like anything.) Since it's so droopy watch closely that it can keep its head up far enough out of the water to not drown. Its ok for it to dip its head down into the water for a second, but watch and make sure it has enough strength to lift its head to breathe. It is really important the water be warm. Replace it as need to keep the temp up/warm. When a tort is ill it needs to be warmed up.


It also needs for the enclosure you are keeping it in to be warm and humid until it is perked up some. This is for raising babies, but is a good "hospital" enclosure. I don't cut the door into the sides and top, just lift the top when I need access.

How to make a closed-chamber baby habitat out of a 55gal Sterilite bin

Since several folks have asked about how to make a closed chamber baby enclosure out of a 55gal Sterilite tote, here are some pics and description of how I do. This is not the most beautiful option, but since the babies will only be in here for 9-12 months, I'm okay with that. My own Russian...

tortoiseforum.org

Do not feed it any fruit. This type of tortoise can't digest it well and fruit destroys their gut bacteria that helps them digest their food.


Please read this

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Care for an adult is different than care for a hatchling, so here are teh sheets for each:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you so much for your reply.

The bottom of his shell from neck to tail is 9cm.

I have just given him a soak for about 15 minutes so ill get him going again now for longer and fortunately i do have a baby bath thermometer thanks to having my niece and nephew over, so luckily i can keep his water nice and warm.

Ill get started on finding all the materials to make a hospital enclosure.

The only food iv offered so far is dandelion leaves but he's not eaten a thing since he got here about 18 hours ago and i haven't seen him drink when he's soaking.

I dont even know if he is a he.

 

[RachB]

Welcome to the forum!

That shrugging shoulders movement you describe is probably him breathing heavily, tortoise don't have digrhams so their limbs move when breathing.

COmtnLady gave some good advice, start by soaking and then figure out how to provide the best conditions for his recovery.

Some pictures of the tortoise and the current set up will help us give you better advice.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

The bottom of his shell from neck to tail is 9cm.

That means he isn't quite a baby anymore, but a juvenile.

The only food iv offered so far is dandelion leaves but he's not eaten a thing since he got here about 18 hours ago and i haven't seen him drink when he's soaking.

They can abrorb some water through the skin, so soaking is still beneficial.

I dont even know if he is a he.

If you post photos of his tail and the bottom of the shell, we might be able to sex him. This is best done with someone holding him upright and another person taking the photos. Look at the in the right bottom corner of this thread for reference:

SHELL DIAGRAMS

tortoiseforum.org

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

View attachment 390605
View attachment 390606View attachment 390607

I will list the things that jump out to me from the photo:

That green hue on the photo tells me that you are probably using a combo bulb with both heat and UVB. According to current informstion, that isnät the best to use over tortoises. For basking heat an incandescant flood bulb is the best and for UVB a tube light by a reputable brand is recommended.

What kind of substrate are you using? The three safest ones are coco coir, orchird fir bark and cypress mulch. Leave the dried flowers and hay out of the hospital set up. You will need a humid environment and they would mold in there.

That plastic reptile dish shouldn't be used for water with tortoises, it is too slippery and hard to get in and out of. The terracotta saucer is good, but it needs to sit flush with the substrate for easy access.

Lastly, for ambient heating for a tortoise that size a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) on a thermostat is recommended instead of the heat mat.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

This might help the tortoise, if it doesn't it won't do any harm either. If the tortoise can't see, it doesn't have any appetite. A carrot soak gives them a vitamin boost when their eyes are shut and they aren't eating:

Gerber Carrot Baby Food Soaks

This "trick" is only for turtles and tortoises that aren't eating and have swollen shut eyes. It's not a cure-all, and unless you fix the reason why the eyes swelled shut in the first place, they're just going to swell shut again after the soaks. Using a bowl with tall sides (so the animal...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[RachB]

I will list the things that jump out to me from the photo:

That green hue on the photo tells me that you are probably using a combo bulb with both heat and UVB. According to current informstion, that isnät the best to use over tortoises. For basking heat an incandescant flood bulb is the best and for UVB a tube light by a reputable brand is recommended.

What kind of substrate are you using? The three safest ones are coco coir, orchird fir bark and cypress mulch. Leave the dried flowers and hay out of the hospital set up. You will need a humid environment and they would mold in there.

That plastic reptile dish shouldn't be used for water with tortoises, it is too slippery and hard to get in and out of. The terracotta saucer is good, but it needs to sit flush with the substrate for easy access.

Lastly, for ambient heating for a tortoise that size a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) on a thermostat is recommended instead of the heat mat.

The whole set up is what came with the tortoise from the previous owner. Iv googled the make and model number that's on the bulb and it is an Arcadia basking lamp sma80e27 80watt mercury vapour lamp.
The substrate that has come with him is Tortoise Life Bio Mediterranean. It feels like a dry soil which i can tell from reading on this forum isn't a good choice at all. Ill see if i can get a hold of some of the other material you mentioned.

Ill take the plastic dish out but he isn't even moving around the enclosure right now.

Iv added a picture in the hope you can tell the sex but i am more worried that he'll live than what sex he is.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

The whole set up is what came with the tortoise from the previous owner. Iv googled the make and model number that's on the bulb and it is an Arcadia basking lamp sma80e27 80watt mercury vapour lamp.
The substrate that has come with him is Tortoise Life Bio Mediterranean. It feels like a dry soil which i can tell from reading on this forum isn't a good choice at all. Ill see if i can get a hold of some of the other material you mentioned.

Ill take the plastic dish out but he isn't even moving around the enclosure right now.

Iv added a picture in the hope you can tell the sex but i am more worried that he'll live than what sex he is.
View attachment 390608

He or she is too young to sex. Looks female now but might still develop male charateristics.

What I am more concerned of it the color of his plastron, looks pinkish/purplish in the photo. How would you say it looks like in real life? This coloring could indicate bruising or even septicemia. I will tag some of our more experienced members here @zovick @Yvonne G and @Markw84

 

[RachB]

Iv added a picture of the full underside so you can see better. It does look pink in places!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

@turtlesteve might also be able to help with the plastron color.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

There are definitely things that need addressing set up wise, looking at the photos there’s definitely growing to do so I think he’d benefit from a closed chamber.

This thread covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc), correct levels, importance of a closed chamber for younger tortoises(only way to maintain the humidity you need), appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and a really handy diet link to check out! If going with a greenhouse, the lower the ceiling height, whilst still allowing for recommended bulb height, the better! But I’ll add some more ideas below for closed chambers

Housing young Russian/Herman

Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...

tortoiseforum.org

This includes different closed chamber options

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, this one here is probably most important to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

I’d make first ports of call lighting and substrate being fixed, hopefully someone will come along to look at the plastron for you, welcome to the forum, please feel free to ask any further questions

 

[zovick]

Iv added a picture of the full underside so you can see better. It does look pinkView attachment 390609 in places!

This tortoise has septicemia. The prognosis is very poor, unfortunately. It is most likely beyond help, but if you really wish to attempt to save it, veterinary intervention will be needed.

A good vet could insert a feeding tube through which you would need to give the tortoise a liquid diet for a few weeks or so. This tube does not go through the mouth, but is inserted through the side of the neck and taped in place on the tortoise's back (carapace). It has a cap on the end which must be opened to feed the tortoise once or twice daily, then after feeding you must flush the tube with a little water to keep it from clogging. You must also be careful not to give too much food or water at one time or there is a risk of overfilling the stomach and having the tortoise inhale some of the stomach contents and drown and/or get pneumonia.

The feeding tube is also good for giving exact doses of oral medications to tortoises who are not eating. As an aside note, do NOT let a vet give the tortoise vitamin injections. It doesn't help and is not necessary.

If you don't take it to a vet, all you can do is continue the warm soaks 1-2 times daily and keep it warm, close to 32C in the daytime and about 29C to 30C at night. It is doubtful it will eat, but you can keep trying to feed it.

Good luck, but you should be prepared for a poor outcome.

 

[RachB]

Thank you for you reply

I was already preparing for a bad outcome with this little guy with how lethargic he's been since he got here but i had no idea he was so sick.

I don't believe there are any vets close to where i live that specialise in exotic pets (I have been searching all day) and my partner who was to be its owner is reluctant to spend a lot of money on treatment if its still likely to end badly.

Ill continue to do all i can for the poor little thing.
Thank you for your help and advice.

 

[zovick]

Thank you for you reply

I was already preparing for a bad outcome with this little guy with how lethargic he's been since he got here but i had no idea he was so sick.

I don't believe there are any vets close to where i live that specialise in exotic pets (I have been searching all day) and my partner who was to be its owner is reluctant to spend a lot of money on treatment if its still likely to end badly.

Ill continue to do all i can for the poor little thing.
Thank you for your help and advice.

As I said, good luck and thank you for trying to save the little tortoise.

 

[COmtnLady]

This is why its not going to be ok without veterinary intervention. Its been going on for quite a while before you saw the tortoise.



generic definition of septisemia from wiki ~

AI OverviewLearn more

Septicemia, also known as sepsis or blood poisoning, is a serious and potentially life-threatening condition that occurs when an infection causes a widespread inflammatory response in the body, leading to organ damage. It's the body's extreme reaction to an infection, often triggered by bacteria but also viruses or fungi entering the bloodstream. Septicemia can lead to severe symptoms like fever, chills, rapid breathing, and confusion. Without timely treatment, sepsis can rapidly progress to organ failure and death.

Causes of Septicemia:

• • Infections: The most common cause is a bacterial infection that enters the bloodstream from another part of the body, such as a wound, pneumonia, or urinary tract infection.
  • Other Infections: Viruses and fungi can also trigger septicemia.
  • Underlying Conditions: Individuals with weakened immune systems, the elderly, and young children are at higher risk.

Symptoms of Septicemia:

• • Fever or Hypothermia: A high or low body temperature.
  • Rapid Breathing: Increased breathing rate.
  • Rapid Heart Rate: Increased heart rate.
  • Chills and Sweating: Shaking or chills accompanied by sweating.
  • Confusion or Agitation: Changes in mental state.
  • Low Blood Pressure: A drop in blood pressure.
  • Reduced Urine Output: Less urine production.
  • Skin Rash: Red or discolored skin, possibly with small dark spots.
  • General Weakness and Fatigue: Feeling tired and weak.

Diagnosis of Septicemia:

• • Physical Exam:
    .Opens in new tab
    Doctors will check for signs of infection and organ dysfunction, such as low blood pressure, fever, and rapid heart rate.
  • Lab Tests:
    .Opens in new tab
    Blood tests to detect signs of infection and organ damage, including blood cultures and inflammatory markers.
  • Imaging Tests:
    .Opens in new tab
    X-rays or other imaging may be used to identify the source of the infection.

Treatment of Septicemia:

• • Antibiotics: Administering antibiotics to fight the infection.
  • Fluids: Rehydration through intravenous fluids.
  • Vasopressors: Medications to increase blood pressure.
  • Supportive Care: Managing other symptoms, such as breathing difficulties and kidney failure.
  • Early Treatment is Crucial: Sepsis requires immediate medical attention.

Prevention of Septicemia:

• • Vaccination: Getting vaccinated against preventable infections.
  • Hand Hygiene: Washing hands regularly.
  • Wound Care: Keeping wounds clean and covered.
  • Good Medical Care: Taking care of any underlying medical conditions.
  • Prompt Treatment of Infections: Seeking medical attention for any infection that worsens.

• 
  

This is for informational purposes only. For medical advice or diagnosis, consult a professional. AI responses may include mistakes.

In all probability, the kindest thing would be have a veterinarian put it down. It is a slow and painful way to die. Even a regular vet can euthanize...

.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

This is why its not going to be ok without veterinary intervention. Its been going on for quite a while before you saw the tortoise.

Yeah, this tortoise has been sick for a while. I wonder if he was never brumating to begin with but lethargic due to the illness? Not sure how the person you got the tortoise from didn't notice that something was wrong.

 

[BB123]

Hi RachB
Hope this doesn't come across as rude since that's not my intention but you should probably talk to your partner about what they want to do if they dont want to pay for treatment then it would be a lot kinder to have the little tort put down since it looks and sounds like he's in quite a bad way and I highly doubt he'll pull through without the right medication from the vets to treat this.

If you both change your minds about getting him looked at this list from the Tortoise Table is supposed to be reliable way to find tortoise vets and has vet practices listed across the UK for torts.

UK Vets by Area

UK Vets by Area

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

I'm glad your little ones at least got to experience a kind and loving home with you even if it ends up being for only a short time.

 

[RachB]

Hi all

Just wanted to give you all a little update since you were all so lovely and helpful.

The little guy seemed to take a turn for the worse yesterday, and after getting advice from you all that he was a lot sicker than I first thought, so I spoke to my partner, and we decided that the kindest thing for him would be to have him euthanized. I just couldn't stand to think he was suffering.

I got my mum to speak to the lady whose daughter I got him from, and she said her daughter had him for 3 weeks and was told by the original owner that he was just taking longer to come out of hibernation than usual. I don't know how anyone could have watched him deteriorate for 3 weeks and not even tried to find a vet to help, but I believe that is what must have happened.

I'm gutted that it ended this way, and I'm sorry to you all that it isn't a happy update, but I'm glad he's not suffering anymore.

Thank you all for your help and kind words. I certainly got quite attached to the little guy in the short time he was here