New SDT Burrow & Enclosure pics

[CircleStarRanch]

Got the enclosure fenced and the burrow completed! We are are now awaiting application approval from AG&F. If all goes well, the Sonoran Desert Tortoise will be here Saturday!

 

[Country10]

Yeah!!!! Lot of hard work hauling rocks and fresh dirt in 110F weather.

Hope your SDT can live with out A/C (lol - joking!!)

˜Ten

 

[wellington]

Good luck. Is the fenced dug down into the ground? If I'm not mistaken, they would just dig under the fence to get out. You may also need to block the bottom portions so they can't see out. If they can't see out, they don't want out as much. Maybe @Yvonne G can give you some pointers on if she thinks your enclosure would be exceptable.

 

[Keith D.]

Hiya Dutch, I have a couple issues with your enclosure, I don't want to sound like a party pooper but I have to mention it. Ok first the hide, how was that constructed, it looks like a pile of rocks and dirt. Do you have a solid form under that cause if I know anything about DTs they will dig in there hides and I would hate to see him dig in that and it crash down on top of him. Second the fencing. It is good as long as its dug into the ground about 12inches or so, and I would put 2x12s or even 2x16s around the bottom so he can't see out, cause a tort that can see out of its outside pen is a tort that will do everything it can to get out to explore the rest of the area. Third the tree in the foreground of your picks a eucalyptus tree, which is highly toxic if they get eaten, the only animal that I know of that can handle them is a koala. I would be very cautious of it and also the branches, I call them widow makers because they have a habit of breaking off with very little effort and would hate for one to hit your tort. Hope this helps guide you a bit.

 

[CircleStarRanch]

@Keith D. I guess I should take that as a compliment! I guess I did a good job of camoflaging a 20 gallon metal trash can, eh?? That "pile of rocks and dirt" you see is actually 8" of dirt packed over half a 20 gal trash can on its side as per Az Game & FIsh Tortoise Adoption Program (TAP) and the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum TAP specfications. See http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_burrow_t1.php

In re to the visual barrier, the AGF TAP website says, "If your fence is chain link or other types of wire, your tortoise can see out of the enclosure and might try to escape. If this occurs, you can create a visual barrier ..." http://azgfdportal.az.gov/wildlife/nongamemanagement/tortoise/enclosure/ (emphasis mine)

I HAVE done my homework before putting all the effort into creating a safe environment for a SDT.

-Dutch

 

[Keith D.]

@Keith D. I guess I should take that as a compliment! I guess I did a good job of camoflaging a 20 gallon metal trash can, eh?? That "pile of rocks and dirt" you see is actually 8" of dirt packed over half a 20 gal trash can on its side as per Az Game & FIsh Tortoise Adoption Program (TAP) and the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum TAP specfications. See http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_burrow_t1.php

In re to the visual barrier, the AGF TAP website says, "If your fence is chain link or other types of wire, your tortoise can see out of the enclosure and might try to escape. If this occurs, you can create a visual barrier ..." http://azgfdportal.az.gov/wildlife/nongamemanagement/tortoise/enclosure/ (emphasis mine)

I HAVE done my homework before putting all the effort into creating a safe environment for a SDT.

-Dutch

Lol OK, but u know that trash can will rust out within a year, I use cement pipes that are at least 18inches across. I was just trying to keep your DT from stressing. Also what about the eucalyptus tree?
Oh and I know what the AG&F say to have but they aren't 100% accurate and don't care if you have to fix a potential problem after you adopt. I have 4 SDTs ATM.

 

[Yvonne G]

Looks very good. I was of the same mind as Keith about seeing through the fence. I like it so my tortoises think theirs is the only world. When they can see out it seems they always want the 'greener grass' on the other side.

 

[CircleStarRanch]

@Keith From what i have found so far the eucalyptus "issue" is a total toss-up. Koalas are not the only animals who eat euclyptus - my dairy goats love it as a treat. Some herp experts agree with you, some don't. Some animal health care professionals use eucalyptus for certain medicinal healing properties. So I am still researching that. In the mean time I'll keep an eye on leaves falling into the enclosure - I'm not going to cut my tree down! LOL Trees are precious a commodity out where I live!

@ Yvonne. I'm kind of taking the "let's take care of the problem if it becomes one" approach. I can add visual barriers if that becomes an issue. From what I am finding in my research, there is a bit of a pattern. Namely, the Sonoran Desert Tortoise, now being classified as a separate species from the Mohave Desert Tortoise, has it's own unique quirks and behaviors. The need to dig is a definate Mohave trait, where it isn't so much of one for the Sonoran. http://www.basinandrangewatch.org/Tortoise-Species.html So time will tell.

-Dutch

 

[Tom]

Here is my constructive criticism:

1. AG&F is NOT the best place to get tortoise advice.
2. Unless you are getting a baby or juvenile, that enclosure is a bit on the small side for my taste.
3. The see-through fencing is a problem. By the time you see that its an issue, your new tortoise might have already injured itself. You need to listen to us on this one. Both Yvonne and I have been housing DTs in a variety of situations for decades. Because the pen is flat, open, barren, and boring the tortoise is going to pace the wall and rub itself raw, removing leg, nose and face scales. Please trust me on this. I've seen it far too many times.
4. Your pen is flat, open, barren, and boring. Add some logs and boulders. Pile up some dirt and make a mountain or two. Plant some more greenery. I encircle cactus stands with slumpstone block to stop the tortoises from eating it, but it also makes a nice sight barrier in the enclosure.
5. Another issue with that fencing is that it makes a perfect ladder for your tortoise to climb up. If he falls and lands on his back, he could die in the hot sun.
6. Your burrow looks nice, BUT have you put a thermometer probe in there and checked the temps day and night? Above ground burrows tend to run hot. It will make good shade, but it might not be cool enough for you area. Only your thermometer can answer this question.
7. Unlike the other posters, I don't think you need buried enclosure walls. DTs do not dig under fences to escape like a dog. If they dig, they dig down to make a burrow to get out of the sun. They don't dig back up at a different angle.
8. You can leave that pen up, but line the bottom with some 16" painted plywood, or line the bottom with cinder block, slump stone or some other block.

Hope this helps.

 

[CircleStarRanch]

@Tom Oh I know the enclosure is boring, but it is not quite finished as this is not the time of year we can plant things (plantings we did in our bees' garden 2 months ago mostly all fried in our record-breaking heat wave this past month - numerous 115+ degree days). That's why I have another thread going on recommended native plants! We can begin planting in another 4-6 weeks I'm hoping. Logs and boulders are on the list as well.

I had thought of the thermometer issue. I have a barely-being used wireless thermometer transmitter in my goat barn that would work in there I think. Thanks for confirming that.

-Dutch

 

[tortoise5643]

The burrow is awesome! I think the enclosure is big enough to house one DT. I also think that you will be fine leaving the wall and seeing if it bothers him. I would probably take the advice to do something about the tree ASAP though.

 

[ascott]

I would be most worried about the location of that entire space...it runs the length of the roof line which means when there is a rain or down pour the water will run straight off of the roof and flood that entire area..as well as wash away the packed dirt covering the can...just saying is all.

 

[Tom]

The burrow is awesome! I think the enclosure is big enough to house one DT. I also think that you will be fine leaving the wall and seeing if it bothers him. I would probably take the advice to do something about the tree ASAP though.

What qualifies you to give this advice? How many DTs have you raised? How many tortoises of any species have you housed in see through fencing?

 

[Yvonne G]

I think the point being made about the eucalyptus tree (besides its toxicity) is that the tree is very brittle. Branches (limbs & quite heavy) break off and fall frequently. A falling limb would kill your tortoise if he's unlucky enough to be in the wrong spot when one falls.

I had several euc trees here on my property when I moved here. One by one I've had to have them all cut down because of falling branches. Lucky for me only fences, a fir tree and a shed were ever broken by them, but it could have been much worse.

 

[CircleStarRanch]

I think the point being made about the eucalyptus tree (besides its toxicity) is that the tree is very brittle. Branches (limbs & quite heavy) break off and fall frequently. A falling limb would kill your tortoise if he's unlucky enough to be in the wrong spot when one falls.

That eucalyptus tree you see a part of is only about 4" in diameter, it's branches are all about the circumference of pencils. So should a branch break off and fall there would be no damage. Only a small portion of it overhangs the enclosure. The tree in the enclosure is a paloverde. Its branches hardly ever break off ... and it is native to this part of the world.

-Dutch

 

[Country10]

Wow what a bunch of negative Nancy's.

8 point list of dislikes and concerns, concerns of a small tree (which has not been proven to be toxic) and the potential twigs falling and killing the tortise (can't stop laughing about that one), concerns of rain that doesn't happen in the area
......ahhhhhhh social media at its best (that sarcasim if you didn't pick up on it)

LMAO

 

[CircleStarRanch]

...it runs the length of the roof line which means when there is a rain or down pour the water will run straight off of the roof and flood that entire area..as well as wash away the packed dirt covering the can...

That has been taken into consideration. Where we live, we get an average rainfall of 6.6" inches per year, with highest amounts in January (0.98" for the month) and August (1.1"). So we don't actually have downpours. We have rocks along the dripline to dissipate and divert any water that may come off the roof. The entire enclosure slopes away from the house, with the burrow being near the highest part of that. The rest of our acreage would have to be under about a foot of water or more for the burrow to flood.

-Dutch

 

[tortoise5643]

What qualifies you to give this advice? How many DTs have you raised? How many tortoises of any species have you housed in see through fencing?

Not trying to get in a debate or question your methods, but I currently house 14 box turtles in a see through cage, a sulcata in a see through cage, and 7 Russians in a see through cage. I pay close attention to them and would notice if they were being inactive, had cuts, or were pacing around the enclosure. I have raised no DT's but if I acquired one, I would house it in an enclosure that would probably be see through. Although, if I noticed it pacing the fence, acting unusual, or cut up, I would get a solid barrier.

 

[Tom]

Not trying to get in a debate or question your methods, but I currently house 14 box turtles in a see through cage, a sulcata in a see through cage, and 7 Russians in a see through cage. I pay close attention to them and would notice if they were being inactive, had cuts, or were pacing around the enclosure. I have raised no DT's but if I acquired one, I would house it in an enclosure that would probably be see through. Although, if I noticed it pacing the fence, acting unusual, or cut up, I would get a solid barrier.

What sort of caging are we talking about? Something like what the OP has shown? Can you show a pic of the enclosure and the surrounding area? I would like to see the circumstances involved with housing a sulcata especially with a wire enclosure outside.

And thank you for the reply…

 

[tortoise5643]

What sort of caging are we talking about? Something like what the OP has shown? Can you show a pic of the enclosure and the surrounding area? I would like to see the circumstances involved with housing a sulcata especially with a wire enclosure outside.

And thank you for the reply…

It's basically 2x2 concreted into the ground every 10 feet or so with chicken wire mesh in between. Rebar ins along the top and is aof the teaches to the 2x2s. I dug a trench on the whole thing with concrete in it so the mesh is concreted in ground for a few inches. My sulcata is only about 12 inches though, I don't expect this to be able to contain him when he gets super string though.