Newbie Tort Enclosure Help

[Welsh]

Hi guys,

Since I was a kid I've always wanted a tortoise, I think it was seeing them roaming around outside, in films and on TV; that first made me attracted to them. Now, I'm a lot older, I've been looking into purchasing my first tort and as you can imagine, there is more information being thrown at me than I even know where to start. So, I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions?

Obviously, the enclosure is my main concern. I've read that a viv is a no-go. So, I've been researching alternatives and I see plastic storage boxes coming up a lot (Rubbermaid) with that in mind I was wondering whether a hamster tank would be sufficient enough? I have one like this laying around, which is around 1.5 feet in length and I thought as the tortoise will be around 1-2 inches when I get it, it would be big enough as a temporary home; until he starts to grow bigger. I would probably need to drill holes into the base for ventilation though wouldn't I?

As for substrate I also have orchid bark, sphagnum moss and some coconut coir laying around from replanting some orchids, if this wouldn't work then I was thinking possibly aspen bedding or would hay work?

Lastly, lighting. I've looked on Amazon for what I believe is a Mercury vapour light, which if I'm correct will give off the uvb rays and also heat too? The trouble is, the bulbs I've seen haven't got great reviews and they don't come with any fixture, so I'm wondering if anyone could suggest a better brand please? I was also curious, as I'm a complete novice, whether a basking /UVB bulb would work in a standard desk lamp, or would it get too hot? I'm basically looking for a two in one light, as I don't really want to have more than one light hanging around, if it's not necessary.

Thank you for any help and I'm sorry if these questions have been asked and answered before. Also, If I do end up getting a tortoise, then it will be the Russian tortoise

 

[JoesMum]

Hello and welcome

Please read the following which will answer many of your questions. The TFO Guides are written by species experts working hard to get the most up to date information out.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Russian Care Guide
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Most of your questions are answered here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/

For your hamster enclosure - 1.5ft by what? There is nothing wrong with vivariums - they are just generally much more expensive for their size than other options. Small tortoises still need a lot of space - and in captivity, they grow fast. Where were you planning on buying your Russian hatchling from?

A mvb provides heat and UVB - depending on the age of your Russian and your climate, you may need an additional heat source for nighttime. You can't just use a regular fixture for an mvb, unfortunately. For the bulb to provide UVB, you also can't have anything between it and the tortoise (ie. You need the bulb within the enclosure). In small enclosures, you have to worry about overheating.

 

[Welsh]

Thank you for the links, they were really helpful!

It's the lighting and heat I'm finding overwhelming. If I were to get a tortoise i think it would be better to get it now, as it's the summer and we are actually having nice, hot weather for a change here in Wales. So, I feel it would give me a chance to perfect the lighting knowing that the tortoise would get some decent light and sun from being outside in the day. But, for the rest of the year it's dark, gloomy and cold. So, this is something I obviously need to get right.

If I do get one, it will be from The tortoise shop, they claim to sell captive bred horse fields. I wouldn't be able to go to the shop, as its in England. So, I will be having it delivered to me. I emailed them yesterday to ask whether it was stressful on the tortoise to be delivered and they assured me they were packed up safely and handled with care and I've actually read great reviews too.

 

[JoesMum]

As you are buying in the UK, your hatchling will definitely be captive bred and must come with the appropriate paperwork.

What's most important is to get your enclosure set up right rather than worrying about the season when you buy it. It won't be living outdoors for a while yet.

This will be your friend for the next 60+ years - we are at 46 years already with ours! It's a very long term responsibility, so take your time and don't make rushed decisions.

Russians are very active and need lots of space. Look at closed chamber setups in the Enclosures forum. You will need a minimum of 4' x 8' (1.5 x 2.2 metres) for this tort.

 

[Welsh]

As you are buying in the UK, your hatchling will definitely be captive bred and must come with the appropriate paperwork.

What's most important is to get your enclosure set up right rather than worrying about the season when you buy it. It won't be living outdoors for a while yet.

This will be your friend for the next 60+ years - we are at 46 years already with ours! It's a very long term responsibility, so take your time and don't make rushed decisions.

Russians are very active and need lots of space. Look at closed chamber setups in the Enclosures forum. You will need a minimum of 4' x 8' (1.5 x 2.2 metres) for this tort.

I definitely won't be rushing in to it, that's not in my nature. I'm just trying to gather all the information at the minute to see if this is actually right for me and whether I can provide it with everything it needs. It sounds like I'm getting a child!

Thank you for all your help. I'm going to check out those chamber setups now

 

[JoesMum]

I definitely won't be rushing in to it, that's not in my nature. I'm just trying to gather all the information at the minute to see if this is actually right for me and whether I can provide it with everything it needs. It sounds like I'm getting a child!

Thank you for all your help. I'm going to check out those chamber setups now

You certainly are getting a child, just one that never leaves home. Joe preceded our children by a couple of decades and now they're grown up and moving on, but he's still with us.

I'm in Kent, by the way. @Lyn W is in Wales

 

[Gillian M]

A very warm welcome to the forum!

You will get all the help you need, here.

 

[Welsh]

Thank you

I've literally spent my entire day researching and looking for suitable bulbs while also googling the effects of the reptile bulbs for humans ( I'm OCD ) it seems that a MVB would be best, as it provides heat, UVA and UVB rays? With this fitting?https://www.amazon.co.uk/Exo-Terra-...017JHHXQ/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8

I'll also be keeping the enclosure on the floor which will be on floorboards that has heated pipes underneath, so walking on it feels like heated flooring and the room stays around 55-60 room temp year around. It will also be right next to a radiator which is never really on at full temp anyway and I often knock it off as I am always overly warm

 

[JoesMum]

Ignore the UVA - it's misleading marketing speak.

Your tort will need

1. A basking spot at 35C/95F. This must hang vertically, not at an angle.

2. UVB light. About 12 inches above the substrate.

3. A minimum overnight temperature of 18C/65F to start.

An MVB provides combined UVB and Basking

Alternatively you can use separate tube UVB and a reflector for basking (a household reflector - not low energy or halogen - from B&Q will do the job; it's the wattage that counts)

Basking and UVB should be on a timer so the light(s) are on for 12 hours a day. Temperature under the basking is regulated by its height above the substrate.

Overnight, depending on your house, you may need additional heat. You get this from a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter) which must be on a thermostat.

You will need digital thermometers for accuracy.

A temperature gun thermometer (inexpensive from Amazon) measures temperature accurately in specific places like directly under the basking lamp.

A min/max thermometer so you know the min/max temperatures in your home by day and night.

You should also get a good hygrometer to measure humidity.

 

[Welsh]

Thank you for taking the time to type all that out for me

I've done nothing but research today and I have a long list of everything I need, if I decide to buy a tortoise: thermometer and hygrometer are on there. But, I'm going to look into the gun too. I was just mostly confused about the light: I was going with the MVB purely to save money mainly and space, rather than having two separate lights.

Thanks again for being so kind and helping

 

[Sara G.]

I use Powersun as my MVB brand and I love it.
They come with a one ear warranty so just in case anything has happened, you can get another one.
I had it happen to me once--we had a power trip and the bulb popped, scary stuff--and they were delightful & I got my new bulb pretty quick.
It can be kinda expensive, but they last roughly a year before the UVB is no good in them and you gotta switch it out.
Arcadia is another brand that I know a lot of keepers on this forum use, haven't tried them personally but I'm sure they're just as good.
You can get the bulbs cheaper online, try Amazon.

 

[Linhdan Nguyen]

Hello & Welcome ! I am also a russian tortoise owner, but is live in the USA
This is a great forum, there are many experienced members willing to help newbie's like us provide a great home for our tortoises. I'm glad you were able to find us

 

[Welsh]

I use Powersun as my MVB brand and I love it.
They come with a one ear warranty so just in case anything has happened, you can get another one.
I had it happen to me once--we had a power trip and the bulb popped, scary stuff--and they were delightful & I got my new bulb pretty quick.
It can be kinda expensive, but they last roughly a year before the UVB is no good in them and you gotta switch it out.
Arcadia is another brand that I know a lot of keepers on this forum use, haven't tried them personally but I'm sure they're just as good.
You can get the bulbs cheaper online, try Amazon.

The Arcadia bulb seems to have better reviews and success rate, than the other brand you mentioned and I would also be able to purchase it from the same place I'd be getting my tort ☺️ I also read that people were having fires with the powersun bulb.

That does sound scary, we've been having power trips a lot here lately, because of the humid weather, bringing storms with it. So, I hope that doesn't happen to me in the future.

I definitely feel that I could possibly be a tortoise owner in the future,since joining this forum lol. Everyone has just be so helpful and kind, and it's made certain things easier to understand.

Thank you. You've been such a big help with your reply

 

[Welsh]

Hello & Welcome ! I am also a russian tortoise owner, but is live in the USA
This is a great forum, there are many experienced members willing to help newbie's like us provide a great home for our tortoises. I'm glad you were able to find us

Thank you. I'm glad I found this forum too, it's been such a huge help

 

[Carol S]

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[Sara G.]

I've never had a fire with a Powersun, and I'm hoping I never do! O_O
I've been using Powersun bulbs for probably....6 or 7 years now and only had an issue with the one.
But go with what you feel is right, Arcadia are great bulbs too!

 

[Welsh]

Ok. So. I think I may have finally figured this out and have the essentials covered

We have ;

80 litre plastic storage tub - temporary until I find something prettier, plus I have one already. It was either this or a 60 litre aquarium tank

Natural pea gravel which I have in my garage from fish tank substrate I decided I didn't like - this will be as the bottom layer to help insulate heat.

Organic Top soil which I'll be mixing with coir since I have some in my garage barely used, if even open.http://www.wilko.com/compost/wilko-top-soil-20l/invt/0339935

A dome lamp clamped to the side and I'll eventually get a stand to hang it on, but at the minute I don't know if I should get the medium lamp or large https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Arcadia bulb https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1PH60OYR84OEQ

Terracotta pot for burying in, which the top will be covered with dirt and then wet spaghnum moss

Terracotta saucer for drinking and I have a tiny slate chopping board that I don't use for feeding him off and for his claws etc - temporary

Nutrobal calcium for food.

Thermometer and Hygrometer
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bocideal-H...465214416&sr=8-25&keywords=hygrometer+reptile

I'll add plants, but I don't feel they are essential yet and I'm not sure where to buy them, pesticide free, etc. I'll also try and grow some lettuce over the rest of the summer and possibly mustard greens, as these are quite easy.

Also, maybe a paving stone or slate for the basking spot?

Have I missed anything? Do these things seem of decent quality?

Thank you for all your help. You all have truly been a blessing

 

[CathyNed]

Hi Welsh. Looks like you are dping a lot of the right prep before purchasing which is a great thing. About your lighting. A lot of people do not recommend the use of clamps to hold the lighting as they do not feel those clamps on the side of the table are very reliable. I dont have any experience with using them at all nyself but I have read here that people are not keen on using them. Hope this helps. At least you are doing your own research before you get your tort. I left the petshop with at least 5 expensive items which were either unnecessary or deemed to be unsafe to use.

 

[Welsh]

Hi Welsh. Looks like you are dping a lot of the right prep before purchasing which is a great thing. About your lighting. A lot of people do not recommend the use of clamps to hold the lighting as they do not feel those clamps on the side of the table are very reliable. I dont have any experience with using them at all nyself but I have read here that people are not keen on using them. Hope this helps. At least you are doing your own research before you get your tort. I left the petshop with at least 5 expensive items which were either unnecessary or deemed to be unsafe to use.

That same thing happened to me when I bought my first fish tank. Even though I did all my research, they still persuaded me otherwise. Thankfully, now I can buy everything I need online, so I don't need to have the misfortune of dealing with pet store nonsense

I had read that about the clamp lamps too, but I didn't know what else to get and I wanted to keep the amount of bulbs and lighting to a minimum, especially as I already have a planted tank too. I did look into them more and people were using those heavy duty clamps to help make them more stable and secure. But, I will also be getting a stand for it to hang on, so I don't know if that would make it somewhat better.

I don't know, maybe someone will recommend a better lighting system?

Thank you for the advice, I'll definitely keep my options open on that front for now