Normal growth range?

[TragicQuietus]

I see lot of posts about babies getting big.. and it makes me worry a little. Gamera has in not grown in months. she is at weight and shell tracing, the same size i got her at. just under 2 inches by shell. it's been a few months. She did shed skin and has a tiny edge of transparent shell, but nothing more. I know they grow at different rates but Should I be worried? She eats, poops, and is active as per normal for a hatching. (hates anything new, bulldozers them over -r.i.p. cute tiki by the pool-) She has a tank 36"x18"x18' for now, planted with dandelions and given fresh green 2x daily, calcium powder on the morning greens. Offered pellet diet all day for grazing (and hates it.) eats well. good temp and humidity, uv bulb & heat lamp. All new sprouts she murders upon finding. When active that tiny elephant butt is all over the place making sure things are just where she left them before she slept. Cuddles the spot on the tank where the cat snoozes, as normal. Burrows a lot more then normal in the past two weeks. It has gotten lot colder but her air temp has remained the same both mid range and at her level. Like I said no change in temp or lighting. Oddly my corn snake has gotten more aggressive about the same time. Any ideas?

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Don't know if it helps but I'd place her at 6 months to 8 months old. eyes open, likes to try to bulldoze my arm, gladly had feeds, never poops in her baths but her poops ( i feel like an idiot typing that) are hamster poop sized. She gets her dandelions, carrot tops, parsley, kept (not often), kale, green lettuce (not iceberg) ,some floral, and clover when I can get it.
..
I planted a beautiful parsley plant in her tank and she cut it down like a lumberjack, ate the stock, left the leaves, and the plant died.

 

[GBtortoises]

Baby tortoises grow at different rates and at different times of the year-one reason that tracking growth by weight of baby tortoises is pointless (and often inaccurate). You don't mention what subspecies of Hermann's you have, the different subspecies are slightly different sizes when born. Assuming it is probably an Eastern Hermann's, Testudo hermanni boettgeri which is the most commonly available subspecies, it was probably around 1 1/8"-1 1/4" when born. At six months under normal conditions it might be expected to be around 1 1/2"-1 5/8". In a years time I anticipate my baby Easterns to be about 2 1/4", or very slightly larger under normal growth conditions. I always strive for about 1"-1 1/2" of growth per year. They can easily be raised larger in a shorter period of time by increasing many things in their environment such as heat and food but in many of those cases that I've seen the tortoises exhibited obvious signs of accelerated growth and often pyramiding.

I personally would increase your tortoises diet choices too. The foods that you list are fine, but adding several more greens and some occasional vegetables will expose your tortoise to more vitamins, minerals and calcium sources.

One of the keys to young tortoise growth and development is constant hydration. Does your tortoises have a constant source of clean drinking water and/or is it being watered (soaked) in a seperate container often? What about the substrate in the tortoises enclosure? What is it and how moist is it kept?

 

[llaperle]

Acknowledging that growth occurs at various rates, I can let you know that Shelldon has grown from 25 grams when I got him in April to 37 grams when I weighed him last week.

Certainly not a huge leap, but fairly consistent at about 1 gram every other week.

 

[TragicQuietus]

I will definitely order seeds and get her on more types of food. Right now in winter things are really limited. She gets her soak every evening in her holding tank used for vet visits just before her second meal, misted in the morning, and the water changed twice daily in her pool. She gets around 5 types of greens right now in a shredded mix + the pellet diet, but they are common to most holistic stores and not really a wild diet. I'm pretty sure she is eastern. With her bad scar/plastron deformity I worry about things like this. Great tips and info thanks. Any and all greatly appreciated. It just felt really odd that I have had her for months with no growth signs other then a very small line of new shell. Then again she is only about 8 - 10 months old. Her tank temp is what I have read on here is best but she does spend a lot of time sitting on her petrified wood and not much time burrowing so I wondered if she is cold. Average temp at ground level is 78 in the day and 66 in the night. She has the heat lamps as well as a uv bulb. So I guess she is ok? Just an adorable little baby to be enjoyed for being a little baby?

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~ edit: To make it clear she is burrowing a lot more then I have seen in the past lately, but in the past two days as it dropped in temp in the house she started spending more time basking then burrowing. she does still spend more time then she did when i first got her burrowing, but more time basking then normal as well and less murdering obstacles in her tank. I guess i should be more clear since you're not all here to actually see what I am. Can I get more confusing? XD The sub straight is plantation soil as a base, and coco-husk with spots of moss under hides and in corners. There are dry areas as well as damp. (damp by growing plants, below ground not surface) When she does burrow it's in the dry areas of the warm zone. The cool zone is totally dry and she only goes there on her daily patrols. Humidity is mid-range right between desert and tropical. Didn't get the actual number off the gauge when i looked at it a moment ago.

 

[cherylim]

I see lot of posts about babies getting big.. and it makes me worry a little. Gamera has in not grown in months. she is at weight and shell tracing, the same size i got her at. just under 2 inches by shell. it's been a few months.

I'd say that's totally normal. Emrys is just slightly bigger than Gamera, and he's not grown too noticeably in length. They're not brand new hatchlings so they're not going to grow at such a rapid, noticeable pace, but I think you'll notice them growing/changing in other ways soon enough. For example, Emrys seems to be growing out, rather than growing longer - he's developing his adult shape, now, and is becoming more round.

 

[TragicQuietus]

Acknowledging that growth occurs at various rates, I can let you know that Shelldon has grown from 25 grams when I got him in April to 37 grams when I weighed him last week.

Certainly not a huge leap, but fairly consistent at about 1 gram every other week.

what do you feed Shelldon and where do you find it best to get? I'm in northern Alberta and it's been touch and go finding anything. No more farmer field delights to be found.

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I'd say that's totally normal. Emrys is just slightly bigger than Gamera, and he's not grown too noticeably in length. They're not brand new hatchlings so they're not going to grow at such a rapid, noticeable pace, but I think you'll notice them growing/changing in other ways soon enough. For example, Emrys seems to be growing out, rather than growing longer - he's developing his adult shape, now, and is becoming more round.

Awesome. The growth I've noticed on gamera is on her sides and not so much in length. I am so relived. I was feeling so awful!.

 

[stells2]

Babies do grow at different rates... there are alot of factors too think of when it comes too growth rate... the higher the temps... the faster the metabolism... hence they will grow more quickly. Opposite for cooler temps... also there is what is being fed... how much is being fed... how hydrated the tortoise is internally... these will all affect growth rate...

One thing i will say is alot of what you are feeding is med/high in oxalic acid... this could bring you problems in the future... try too look for some more high fibrous items too feed... Plantain (the weed not the banana looking thing) is a good one... if you cannot get more variety into your diet... start looking at adding in some formulated diet... such as Mazuri... pretty pets... etc

 

[llaperle]

The staple of my diet is Spring Mix salad that I buy at the grocery store. To that I add dandelion greens (from the yard in season, or from the grocery store otherwise), beet greens, and an occasional vegetable or fruit (once or twice a month).

I give a supplement (similar to Mazuri) once a week too.

Yes, I think we are somewhat more limited here in Canada, but hopefully you can find enough to get through the long winter in Alberta.

 

[GBtortoises]

"The staple of my diet is Spring Mix salad that I buy at the grocery store. To that I add dandelion greens (from the yard in season, or from the grocery store otherwise), beet greens, and an occasional vegetable or fruit (once or twice a month).

I give a supplement (similar to Mazuri) once a week too."

I think this is a really good diet plan!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

If you can find an "ethnic" grocery, get some cactus pads and offer your tort some, finely chopped...safe to freeze, too.

Excellent source of natural calcium.

 

[Neltharion]

I see lot of posts about babies getting big.. and it makes me worry a little. Gamera has in not grown in months. she is at weight and shell tracing, the same size i got her at. just under 2 inches by shell. it's been a few months. She did shed skin and has a tiny edge of transparent shell, but nothing more. I know they grow at different rates but Should I be worried?

Actually if you see semi-transparent edges on the shell, that's a sign of growth. What I've typically observed and heard from other keepers is that tortoises, particularly youngsters, seem to go through phases of growth. You'll see a growth spurt, then periods where they seem like they're not growing at all.

 

[llaperle]

If you can find an "ethnic" grocery, get some cactus pads and offer your tort some, finely chopped...safe to freeze, too.

Excellent source of natural calcium.

I didn't realize that cactus pads could be frozen! Thanks for the tip.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

If you can find an "ethnic" grocery, get some cactus pads and offer your tort some, finely chopped...safe to freeze, too.

Excellent source of natural calcium.

I didn't realize that cactus pads could be frozen! Thanks for the tip.

For smaller tort-lets, I'd chop the pad into 1" squares...that way, you can just thaw out what you need per feeding.

 

[TragicQuietus]

Great advice! Thanks everyone! Many many places here sell cactus pads. Also wondering if "cat grass" would be safe to grow in the enclose? (most often oat, wheat, or barley) It's hard to find anything I can easily grow indoors at a sustainable rate at local gardening shops.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Great advice! Thanks everyone! Many many places here sell cactus pads. Also wondering if "cat grass" would be safe to grow in the enclose? (most often oat, wheat, or barley) It's hard to find anything I can easily grow indoors at a sustainable rate at local gardening shops.

"Cat grass" is fine, if your tort will eat it (one of mine is enthusiastic, the other three are only occasionally interested).

One grass that all 4 of mine get excited over is St. Augustine, so you might look for a few squares and break them up into smaller units, in shallow pans, that you can alternate...let your tort graze until that flat is almost gone, then put in another while the previous flat "recuperates".

 

[Tortoise]

My Hermanns hatchlings are very slow growing too but eat regularly. I too am in Canada so already we are white over and no more weeds available. been buying the organic mixed spring leaves in the boxes, adding dried red clover, oxbow hay and tortoise nutrition powder and calcium and vit D3. Also use a potato peeler(use it on the growing pads and leave the pads in tact) to place a few slithers of cacti pad on top-they love it.

The oxbow hay, Tortoise nutrition powder and dried red clover a friend got fro me from the US not sure where that was from now?? It lasts ages with babies and they ship to Canada.
Was planning on drying my own plantain but it snowed before I picked enough fresh leaves.

The cacti has been very easy to grow-I placed several pads in sandy soil and it sprouted new pads after a few weeks, it will be more than enough(I have 4 pots of them)for the babies over winter as we can't buy that locally-have to get it via a friend from California (we are very rural)

My babies have only gained about 6/7 grammes in 5 mths but look very active, happy and appear to eat very enthusiastically and get more than they can eat too. I soak them often too. They use their water dishes often too.

I think its ok to grow slowly and is more like the growth trend in the wild.

 

[TragicQuietus]

Pleased to say we sell oxbow in the store I work at. : ) Glad to see there are people in Canada on here who know what I'm going through. The pellets I use are the ZooMed grassland and only gets eaten if they are on top of fresh greens. (Soaked to make them soft) New plants are starting to sprout in Habitat. Have some sprouting out of tank to help them survive her military like inventory of what should and should not be where it is. Her first meal of the say is dusted with supplement. Have plenty of Oxbow (I also keep finches) and picked up spring mix. Is parsley or other herbs ok to grow in tank as well? Found a good location for growing herb gardens and thought I would pick some plants up if they are ok? Glad to hear it's not abnormal to be so small. XD I'm a worried mom! Her plastron is badly scarred from some unknown problem with her eggsack and these things are always on my mind. Any one have ideas if that will be a problem as she grows? so far so good, just a strange Z pattern and a small "hole" but I flush it out daily and there is no longer signs of infection or shell rot. And for anyone out there who is dealing with shell rot, it's hard work and a /LOT/ of time, but thanks to advise on here, even someone like me can help our babies young or old beat it.

 

[llaperle]

Sounds like you are battling some challenges on top of our Canadian winters with Gamera.

It is obvious that you care deeply and are doing everything you can. Best of luck!

LORI