Not walking red footed

[Blinderl]

I brought Kirby home He’s a red footed about 17. He used to walk all over before I adopted him. He got pneumonia at his previous home and hasn’t walked for over 3 months. I have been nursing him back and now his eyes are clear, he’s alert, he eats a great diet, vitamin A. Calcium. Greens. Protein. He is very alert and looks like he wants to walk. Since I’ve had him he has uvb. UVA. Moisture. Heat. Daily soaks. Still not walking after about a month of intensive care. If it’s mbd how long to get better? He can’t even get to his water dish. Totally dependent.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Can he stand up or does he try to? If you touch his feet, does he pull them in?

Have you tried physical therapy in water? Balance him on some object like a upside down bowl so that his feet don't touch the bottom and let him paddle in the water.

I will tag @zovick here.

 

[COmtnLady]

Please show us pictures of his enclosure, and tell us what the temperature and humidity are inside it.

And post some pictures of Kirby, too!

What specifically are you feeding him? What amounts?

Are you soaking him in warm shallow water daily? For how long each time?

What specifically is the "intensive care" you mention?


Do you have other tortoises? How long have you had them and what species are each?

 

[wellington]

As for the therapy, place in a tub of water deep enough he can't touch the bottom and let him swim. Be by his side, never leaving him alone and if he seems to sink, place a couple fingers under him to hold him up and make him swim. I did this years ago on a leopard that could walk very good and couldn't lift himself. A couple times a day.
Not sure using a bowl that can flip is really needed. Just make the water deep enough so he actually moves around.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

MBD doesn't get cured. But you can stop most of the future damage and stop it from progressing. Let's hope that's not the issue.
Can you supply us with photos?

 

[zovick]

I brought Kirby home He’s a red footed about 17. He used to walk all over before I adopted him. He got pneumonia at his previous home and hasn’t walked for over 3 months. I have been nursing him back and now his eyes are clear, he’s alert, he eats a great diet, vitamin A. Calcium. Greens. Protein. He is very alert and looks like he wants to walk. Since I’ve had him he has uvb. UVA. Moisture. Heat. Daily soaks. Still not walking after about a month of intensive care. If it’s mbd how long to get better? He can’t even get to his water dish. Totally dependent.

This does not sound to me like MBD. It does not have a sudden onset and occur in a week or two (which is what I am getting from your description of the situation). Most tortoises with MBD have depressed central/spinal scutes toward the rear and don't use their back legs but pull themselves around with their front legs.

Sometimes tortoises don't move simply because they have been placed into a new environment and don't feel safe. Still, three months is a long time for the tortoise not to move about. I had one which didn't move for a full 30 days after I got it, then one day, it just started waling around as if nothing had ever bothered it.

Pictures of the profile of your tortoise would help to diagnose MBD if it does indeed have it.

 

[Blinderl]

Can he stand up or does he try to? If you touch his feet, does he pull them in?

Have you tried physical therapy in water? Balance him on some object like a upside down bowl so that his feet don't touch the bottom and let him paddle in the water.

I will tag @zovick here.

Thank you. He flutters them but no real movement. I’ve been doing that with a support in his soaking bath but only his front legs really move. I can tell he wants to move.

 

[Blinderl]

This does not sound to me like MBD. It does not have a sudden onset and occur in a week or two (which is what I am getting from your description of the situation). Most tortoises with MBD have depressed central/spinal scutes toward the rear and don't use their back legs but pull themselves around with their front legs.

Sometimes tortoises don't move simply because they have been placed into a new environment and don't feel safe. Still, three months is a long time for the tortoise not to move about. I had one which didn't move for a full 30 days after I got it, then one day, it just started waling around as if nothing had ever bothered it.

Pictures of the profile of your tortoise would help to diagnose MBD if it does indeed have it.

Really! Maybe he will walk again. For 15 years he walked. He was in our bio lab the resident pet. When he got sick I realised his bare was all wrong. Now he’s so much better. I’m hopeful.

Please show us pictures of his enclosure, and tell us what the temperature and humidity are inside it.

And post some pictures of Kirby, too!

What specifically are you feeding him? What amounts?

Are you soaking him in warm shallow water daily? For how long each time?

What specifically is the "intensive care" you mention?


Do you have other tortoises? How long have you had them and what species are each?

 

[Blinderl]

Thank you so much
He’s been my tortoise for a month but I’ve known him for 10 years. He was in our bio lab as pet. I have had many reptiles this is my first tortoise. I was not in charge of his care. Now I know and am committed to him. He’s at my house now.

He has 80% humidity with a humidifier. A heat lamp at around 85oF. A daily soak. Enclosure 5 ft by 2 ft although not using it due to not walking. UVB lamp is new and about 10 inches from him. UVA lamp is further. It heats up enclosure if too close. I have the lights on a 12 hour timer

Calcium supplement. Greens. Dandelions.Strawberries. Hay. Boiled egg about once a week. Blueberries. Arugula. He eats very well and loves his food. Sometimes me Mazuri pellets. Poops normally.

His shell has raised scutes but he’s had these the whole time I’ve known him and he was fine.

I so hope to figure it out. The vet said he may have subcutaneous emphysema but that was when he was really sick. He took a month of antibiotics. He is breathing fine now. His eyes were closed and swollen for months but now he is wide eyed and alert.

Vitamin A drops for eyes.

He’s very cute as you can see. I think his back legs look atrophied

 

[Blinderl]

This does not sound to me like MBD. It does not have a sudden onset and occur in a week or two (which is what I am getting from your description of the situation). Most tortoises with MBD have depressed central/spinal scutes toward the rear and don't use their back legs but pull themselves around with their front legs.

Sometimes tortoises don't move simply because they have been placed into a new environment and don't feel safe. Still, three months is a long time for the tortoise not to move about. I had one which didn't move for a full 30 days after I got it, then one day, it just started waling around as if nothing had ever bothered it.

Pictures of the profile of your tortoise would help to diagnose MBD if it does indeed have it.

Really! Maybe he will walk again. For 15 years he walked. He was in our bio lab the resident pet. When he got sick I realised his bare was all wrong. Now he’s so much better. I’m hopeful.

Please show us pictures of his enclosure, and tell us what the temperature and humidity are inside it.

And post some pictures of Kirby, too!

What specifically are you feeding him? What amounts?

Are you soaking him in warm shallow water daily? For how long each time?

What specifically is the "intensive care" you mention?


Do you have other tortoises? How long have you had them and what species are each?

Can he stand up or does he try to? If you touch his feet, does he pull them in?

Have you tried physical therapy in water? Balance him on some object like a upside down bowl so that his feet don't touch the bottom and let him paddle in the water.

I will tag @zovick here.

He can’t stand at all. I’m going to try the PT in his soak. Thanks for that. He doesn’t pull his legs in. He doesn’t mind me touching them and they move a very little. Here a couple photos

 

[Blinderl]

As for the therapy, place in a tub of water deep enough he can't touch the bottom and let him swim. Be by his side, never leaving him alone and if he seems to sink, place a couple fingers under him to hold him up and make him swim. I did this years ago on a leopard that could walk very good and couldn't lift himself. A couple times a day.
Not sure using a bowl that can flip is really needed. Just make the water deep enough so he actually moves around.

Ah let him swim. I will try this and let you know.

 

[COmtnLady]

For the water therapy - I would place something under him (the suggested bowl or a foodcan - basically a post he can sit on but not touch with his feet), make sure the water is around 95F (lukewarm), when it begins to cool down warm it back to the 95F (or even a couple degrees warmer). Don't let it get cold. Keep him in it 45 minutes or longer, which means it absolutely will need closely watched for temperature.. Have the water be deep enough that his legs are in it, but don't make it so deep that he has a hard time keeping his face out of it. You are trying to force him to swim, but especially since he is barely over a respiratory infection, you don't want him inhaling water. If he has enough control that he can duck his head and pull it back above the water, he's probably just grabbing a drink, but since his legs are so "iffy", make certain any head duck is under his control and he's not in trouble/tired.

You have to be there all the time in case he gets too tired and his head droops, or he slips off the post.

It might be interesting to manipulate his hind legs to wake up the muscle memory. It may be too soon the first time or two, but after that, especially if he's responding with his front legs at all, it might be a good thing to try.



What sort of substrate is that? And why is there a box turtle in there also? (It looks like soil, which is inappropriate for RFs. There are many reasons why its bad to use, not the least of which is that RFs need such high temps and humidity that with soil in those conditions, you are precipitating shell fungus. ) Orchid Bark/Fir Bark is best. The lower inch or two can hold water to create a nice consistent evaporative humidity level, while the surface layer stays relatively dry. I use 3" tightly packed damp-to-wet coco coir, with 3-4" Orchid Bark on top. Whenever your humidity gauge says it is getting down to 82-83% you simply pour a couple cups of warm water in the corners to bring it back up. (Do it slowly at first. Its easier to add more than remove too much. In no time you will have a feel for how much is enough.)

NEVER use misters, humidifiers, sprayers, or foggers. They create droplets that are too large for your tortoise to breathe comfortably. Look at his nares compared to the droplets size. Misters, foggers, sprayers, and humidifiers have been known to cause Respiratory Infections.

I keep my Red Foot in 85F and 85%humidity 24/7 - and have had no problems, thanks to the substrate set up as above.



What specifically was the "intensive care" you mentioned?


If you are feeding Mazuri 5M21 three times per week, your tortoise is getting sufficient calcium. Mine likes it better when softened with water.



Have you had a chance to read this yet? Probably you're familiar with some of it already , but its good for all of us to have the same basic starting page.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

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Housing older red foot/cherryhead

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Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

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Its important to know where your species evolved, so you have a feel for what they need (each species needs are quite different from the others). Since this was written we've discovered a couple things mentioned in this that aren't best keeping practices (eg: sand and moss have no place in a captive tortoise's chamber, both can cause GI impactions), but it is mostly great background info to know about Red Foots. I love the map!

Redfoot Tortoise Care Sheet

NOTE: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and this should not be used as cold hard proof of how to raise a redfoot. I used information from great keepers on this forum to put everything together. This care...

tortoiseforum.org

And, yes! He is very cute!!!





Welcome to The Tortoise Forum!





.

 

[COmtnLady]

re pics - How about a plastron and a profile or two.

 

[TammyJ]

Is there another tortoise or turtle in his enclosure?
In any case, you said he was kept in the school bio lab for years. What size enclosure was he in for all those years?
If it was too small, and he was being fed every day, then he was not getting any exercise. There was no need for him to go for his food. No need to move.
So he lost the ability and the need to walk.
Maybe.
If this is the case, then he needs rehabilitation with a much larger enclosure.
I would continue the soaks and water therapy.
Stop feeding him for a few days, at least 3.
When feeding him after 3 days, put the food far from him but clearly visible to him and maybe he will try to get to it.
That's what I would do anyway.
Good luck.

 

[wellington]

For the water therapy - I would place something under him (the suggested bowl or a foodcan - basically a post he can sit on but not touch with his feet), make sure the water is around 95F (lukewarm), when it begins to cool down warm it back to the 95F (or even a couple degrees warmer). Don't let it get cold. Keep him in it 45 minutes or longer, which means it absolutely will need closely watched for temperature.. Have the water be deep enough that his legs are in it, but don't make it so deep that he has a hard time keeping his face out of it. You are trying to force him to swim, but especially since he is barely over a respiratory infection, you don't want him inhaling water. If he has enough control that he can duck his head and pull it back above the water, he's probably just grabbing a drink, but since his legs are so "iffy", make certain any head duck is under his control and he's not in trouble/tired.

You have to be there all the time in case he gets too tired and his head droops, or he slips off the post.

It might be interesting to manipulate his hind legs to wake up the muscle memory. It may be too soon the first time or two, but after that, especially if he's responding with his front legs at all, it might be a good thing to try.



What sort of substrate is that? And why is there a box turtle in there also? (It looks like soil, which is inappropriate for RFs. There are many reasons why its bad to use, not the least of which is that RFs need such high temps and humidity that with soil in those conditions, you are precipitating shell fungus. ) Orchid Bark/Fir Bark is best. The lower inch or two can hold water to create a nice consistent evaporative humidity level, while the surface layer stays relatively dry. I use 3" tightly packed damp-to-wet coco coir, with 3-4" Orchid Bark on top. Whenever your humidity gauge says it is getting down to 82-83% you simply pour a couple cups of warm water in the corners to bring it back up. (Do it slowly at first. Its easier to add more than remove too much. In no time you will have a feel for how much is enough.)

NEVER use misters, humidifiers, sprayers, or foggers. They create droplets that are too large for your tortoise to breathe comfortably. Look at his nares compared to the droplets size. Misters, foggers, sprayers, and humidifiers have been known to cause Respiratory Infections.

I keep my Red Foot in 85F and 85%humidity 24/7 - and have had no problems, thanks to the substrate set up as above.



What specifically was the "intensive care" you mentioned?


If you are feeding Mazuri 5M21 three times per week, your tortoise is getting sufficient calcium. Mine likes it better when softened with water.



Have you had a chance to read this yet? Probably you're familiar with some of it already , but its good for all of us to have the same basic starting page.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Stuff to look through when you have the time:

Housing older red foot/cherryhead

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to go over an example of an appropriate indoor red foot/cherryhead enclosure. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure(especially the size these guys get!) I understand being from the uk myself, that some climate’s make it...

tortoiseforum.org

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Its important to know where your species evolved, so you have a feel for what they need (each species needs are quite different from the others). Since this was written we've discovered a couple things mentioned in this that aren't best keeping practices (eg: sand and moss have no place in a captive tortoise's chamber, both can cause GI impactions), but it is mostly great background info to know about Red Foots. I love the map!

Redfoot Tortoise Care Sheet

NOTE: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and this should not be used as cold hard proof of how to raise a redfoot. I used information from great keepers on this forum to put everything together. This care...

tortoiseforum.org

And, yes! He is very cute!!!





Welcome to The Tortoise Forum!





.

They don't need anything under them! I have actually done this myself years ago. Learned it from Yvonne. You want the water deep enough they can't touch and keep them moving. The point is to get them to keep moving and when they come to a side they kinda struggle a little to get out and they will turn or can be turned so they keep going. Building up the muscle.

 

[wellington]

Ah let him swim. I will try this and let you know.

Yes, the constant swimming will help build muscle and strength. Don't need a bowl under them. The point is for them to keep moving. Always supervise and give him breaks a couple times during Do it at least once a day for 20-30 minute each. It's not going to be a quick fix, but it did work fabulous for my rescue. He is my fastest moving tortoise. I can't remember how long it took, it was back in 2012 or 2013. I'd say improvement in a month or less and full on walking normal a couple months or so.

 

[Blinderl]

For the water therapy - I would place something under him (the suggested bowl or a foodcan - basically a post he can sit on but not touch with his feet), make sure the water is around 95F (lukewarm), when it begins to cool down warm it back to the 95F (or even a couple degrees warmer). Don't let it get cold. Keep him in it 45 minutes or longer, which means it absolutely will need closely watched for temperature.. Have the water be deep enough that his legs are in it, but don't make it so deep that he has a hard time keeping his face out of it. You are trying to force him to swim, but especially since he is barely over a respiratory infection, you don't want him inhaling water. If he has enough control that he can duck his head and pull it back above the water, he's probably just grabbing a drink, but since his legs are so "iffy", make certain any head duck is under his control and he's not in trouble/tired.

You have to be there all the time in case he gets too tired and his head droops, or he slips off the post.

It might be interesting to manipulate his hind legs to wake up the muscle memory. It may be too soon the first time or two, but after that, especially if he's responding with his front legs at all, it might be a good thing to try.



What sort of substrate is that? And why is there a box turtle in there also? (It looks like soil, which is inappropriate for RFs. There are many reasons why its bad to use, not the least of which is that RFs need such high temps and humidity that with soil in those conditions, you are precipitating shell fungus. ) Orchid Bark/Fir Bark is best. The lower inch or two can hold water to create a nice consistent evaporative humidity level, while the surface layer stays relatively dry. I use 3" tightly packed damp-to-wet coco coir, with 3-4" Orchid Bark on top. Whenever your humidity gauge says it is getting down to 82-83% you simply pour a couple cups of warm water in the corners to bring it back up. (Do it slowly at first. Its easier to add more than remove too much. In no time you will have a feel for how much is enough.)

NEVER use misters, humidifiers, sprayers, or foggers. They create droplets that are too large for your tortoise to breathe comfortably. Look at his nares compared to the droplets size. Misters, foggers, sprayers, and humidifiers have been known to cause Respiratory Infections.

I keep my Red Foot in 85F and 85%humidity 24/7 - and have had no problems, thanks to the substrate set up as above.



What specifically was the "intensive care" you mentioned?


If you are feeding Mazuri 5M21 three times per week, your tortoise is getting sufficient calcium. Mine likes it better when softened with water.



Have you had a chance to read this yet? Probably you're familiar with some of it already , but its good for all of us to have the same basic starting page.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Stuff to look through when you have the time:

Housing older red foot/cherryhead

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to go over an example of an appropriate indoor red foot/cherryhead enclosure. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure(especially the size these guys get!) I understand being from the uk myself, that some climate’s make it...

tortoiseforum.org

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Its important to know where your species evolved, so you have a feel for what they need (each species needs are quite different from the others). Since this was written we've discovered a couple things mentioned in this that aren't best keeping practices (eg: sand and moss have no place in a captive tortoise's chamber, both can cause GI impactions), but it is mostly great background info to know about Red Foots. I love the map!

Redfoot Tortoise Care Sheet

NOTE: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and this should not be used as cold hard proof of how to raise a redfoot. I used information from great keepers on this forum to put everything together. This care...

tortoiseforum.org

And, yes! He is very cute!!!





Welcome to The Tortoise Forum!





.

Thank you so much! I will change the substrate today. I have bark and coconut. I’ll remove the humidifier. The box tortoise is just a shell. . I’ll start the therapy today too. I’m in NJ and it’s been hot so I take him outside in the grass which he seems to like. He eats dandelions I really appreciate your advice.

 

[Blinderl]

Please show us pictures of his enclosure, and tell us what the temperature and humidity are inside it.

And post some pictures of Kirby, too!

What specifically are you feeding him? What amounts?

Are you soaking him in warm shallow water daily? For how long each time?

What specifically is the "intensive care" you mention?


Do you have other tortoises? How long have you had them and what species are each?

I changed the bedding. The humidifier I’m using is zoomed reptifogger. Do you think that’s ok? Today he moved his legs little in his. soak.i did some PT leg movement. He does not mind it. For the 7 years he was in the lab he walked. And not taken well care of at all ( my opinion I was not his caretaker). I’ll let you know how he is in a week.

 

[Blinderl]

Yes, the constant swimming will help build muscle and strength. Don't need a bowl under them. The point is for them to keep moving. Always supervise and give him breaks a couple times during Do it at least once a day for 20-30 minute each. It's not going to be a quick fix, but it did work fabulous for my rescue. He is my fastest moving tortoise. I can't remember how long it took, it was back in 2012 or 2013. I'd say improvement in a month or less and full on walking normal a couple months or so.

I didn’t know tortoises can swim. Today I put him on a support in his soak and let his legs hang free. I did some PT which he was fine with. I’m nervous about the swimming. Of course I’ll be there constantly I don’t think he could keep himself afloat

 

[wellington]

I didn’t know tortoises can swim. Today I put him on a support in his soak and let his legs hang free. I did some PT which he was fine with. I’m nervous about the swimming. Of course I’ll be there constantly I don’t think he could keep himself afloat

A lot of tortoises can swim. Best to let him do it with being on a bowl as many will just sit there doing nothing. That's are tortoises are weighed. Put a bucket or bowl, depending on tortoise size on a scale and tortoise on top of the bucket or bowl. This keeps them from scrambling away, but most just sit still. You need him to use his legs to build of strength and muscle if this is his problem. If he can't swim, either place a couple fingers under him to hold him up or get a small piece of flat Styrofoam and put that under him between front and back legs.
I used my bath tub. Most tubs are a little slanted at the end furthest from faucet. My tortoise would swim from the deeper end to the shallow end where he could barely touch bottom. Then I would either pull him back to deep end or turn him around so he would swim back to it and then he would turn himself around and go back to shallow end.