Outdoor Sulcata Enclosure in N Florida

[WaterBear]

Ha! I love the tardigrade propaganda poster!

Sounds like we should steer back in the direction of wood fencing instead of chain link. Four feet high would probably keep most things out. I suppose we could add electric fence to the top later if we felt the need for additional protection.

I'm still stuck on the night box. I like the ASL Solutions doghouse that @SinLA posted. Do you have any experience with the Palace Central Heater that goes with it? That combo could be the simplest solution for us. The largest house they have would probably last a long time before our guy outgrew it. I'm puzzled over the high set door though. We could bury it a bit to level the bottom of the door with ground level on the outside, but how would a tortoise get up to the door on the inside to get out? Do you fill the inside with something? What am I missing here?

 

[Yvonne G]

. . .or build a ramp up to the door

 

[SinLA]

Ha! I love the tardigrade propaganda poster!

Sounds like we should steer back in the direction of wood fencing instead of chain link. Four feet high would probably keep most things out. I suppose we could add electric fence to the top later if we felt the need for additional protection.

I'm still stuck on the night box. I like the ASL Solutions doghouse that @SinLA posted. Do you have any experience with the Palace Central Heater that goes with it? That combo could be the simplest solution for us. The largest house they have would probably last a long time before our guy outgrew it. I'm puzzled over the high set door though. We could bury it a bit to level the bottom of the door with ground level on the outside, but how would a tortoise get up to the door on the inside to get out? Do you fill the inside with something? What am I missing here?

I have the smallest one(DP Hunter), it appears to have about 1” thick of insulation for the walls.

The heater that came with the DP version was just a fairly weak heating “pad” (hard plastic). Definitely not enough to heat for a reptile. Designed for a mammal to sleep on it. I was hoping I could use it like a chick brooder panel, but that did not work I had to get a proper brooder panel.

I ended up blocking off half the space with paving stones and putting a brooder panel in and that worked well until the crickets made it their home. Also I was sort of paranoid about him climbing the “border wall” and falling into the heater section so I also added a few thrift store baking racks to create a “wall”.

For the ingress I sunk it down a couple of inches and then built up the dirt and a ramp to the door. For inside I put a pair of pavers in front of the door and then filled the area with coco coir so he has a few inches to burrow down in, but he can always climb out.

He “puts himself to bed” most nights into the box even with me bringing him inside at night now. He feels very protected in there.

Here are some photos.

that said I think Tom’s setup is probably better…

 

[WaterBear]

We are making progress! The attached photo shows what the area looks like now that we've cleared the underbrush and some trees.

We've been talking with a couple fencing companies, and one in particular seems very promising. We told them we want something that will last as long as possible. They suggested telephone poles for the fence posts with Galvalume metal roofing panels for the bottom and about 4 feet of chain link above that. The chain link will be above Sulcata range to avoid any shell or spur damage. Both the telephone poles and the Galvalume are surplus they got a good deal on, so we're getting a good deal on it too.

What do y'all think? This sounds solid to me, but I'd appreciate expert input before locking things down.

 

[EppsDynasty]

You are mentioning my HELL....
Let me explain: Cutting full length Telephone Poles, O NO. I have a hard time cutting up poles that could be used for Flag Pole, Basketball Hoop with lots of pole to put a light above the hoop, I have actually "stacked" poles laying on the ground to make a wall, Using them as post to make a 30' tall wall of Ivy (for shade). These are just a couple things full length poles are good for, once cut you cannot make em whole ever again. I have the same feelings about cutting the tops off drums too. O NO.

As for your question, sounds great EXCEPT 1 thing. I am guessing they want to lay the panel horizontal so it's 8' long and 4' wide? And put poles every 8'. If this is the case your tort will simply push through it. If you lay a roof panel on its side it has just lost all of it's "Sturdiness." Take a 2"x4" you can easily push it to bending on one side but put it "sideways" and you can not bend it at ALL. The panels have some sort of ridges (bends) in them to add strength, but that strength only helps in one direction. If a panel is on it's side it can EASILY be pushed until it fails and bends 90 degrees to the factory bends. I hope this makes sense. When your tort turns around they will push a whole lot of force against the panels. I would hate for you to pay all this $ and have to have it redone. I to this day have not found a better way than 2"x"8"s with post every 8'. We just finished another Sulcata pen yesterday, I will post pics shortly.
Just 1 more thing....You have to remember they are a fence company, installing fencing. They are not a Tortoise Enclosure Company, they most likely don't know squat about this project or how to do it right.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Here is a pic....
You'll notice on the far right I used OSB as temporary panels, it is all being replaced with 2"x8"s.

 

[Yvonne G]

I've seen fences made out of those corrugated roofing panels and they looked great. . . but the panels were cut and installed vertically, not horizontally. Hoefully @jaizei or @Tom can find the link for yu.

 

[Tom]

Here are some pictures of what Yvonne and EppsDynasty were talking about. The roofing panels will need to be mounted vertically with at least a few inches set into a trench on the ground and pressure treated lumber used as a frame and top. Also, I see no reason to put 4 feet of chainlink on top of the wall you are making. Predators can still easily jump that or dig under, and I don't think predators are an issue for large tortoises that are locked into their night boxes every night, or down in a self-made burrow.

Here are the pictures. This was made with plastic UV protected panels for Testudo tortoises, but you can get the idea:

 

[jaizei]

We are making progress! The attached photo shows what the area looks like now that we've cleared the underbrush and some trees.

We've been talking with a couple fencing companies, and one in particular seems very promising. We told them we want something that will last as long as possible. They suggested telephone poles for the fence posts with Galvalume metal roofing panels for the bottom and about 4 feet of chain link above that. The chain link will be above Sulcata range to avoid any shell or spur damage. Both the telephone poles and the Galvalume are surplus they got a good deal on, so we're getting a good deal on it too.

What do y'all think? This sounds solid to me, but I'd appreciate expert input before locking things down.

It really depends on what they mean by 'telephone poles.' If the ground is on the sandier side, I can see how larger diameter poles or longer poles that can be placed deeper might be better. So it might be better for your location. But even shorter sections of the poles would be heavier and more cumbersome than the typical options. Anything close to actual telephone poles (10"+ diameter) will take more labor to work with/install than a 2" steel post or 4x4 wood post, so the savings in material cost might be made up with labor. Even if someone offered me free, cut to length telephone poles, I'd think twice about using them just because of how cumbersome they are.


Here's a couple posts of enclosures using roof panels:

Wood for outdoor enclosure.

Plan on starting an outdoor area for my sulcata and red foots. I figured pressure treated 4x4’s about a foot and a half in the ground would be ok. But what about the actual fence. Was scouring the lumber section at Lowe’s and saw some of the wood can get quite expensive. Like the pressure...

tortoiseforum.org

Enclosure walls

Can anyone who has a very large sulcata show me what they use for their enclosure walls. We are moving soon and I want to build Tardis a new enclosure. Thank you.

tortoiseforum.org

I've seen fences made out of those corrugated roofing panels and they looked great. . . but the panels were cut and installed vertically, not horizontally. Hoefully @jaizei or @Tom can find the link for yu.

I think longwise/horizontal is better than vertical, and if the panels are longer (16-20ft) theres considerably fewer seams.

 

[Yvonne G]

It really depends on what they mean by 'telephone poles.' If the ground is on the sandier side, I can see how larger diameter poles or longer poles that can be placed deeper might be better. So it might be better for your location. But even shorter sections of the poles would be heavier and more cumbersome than the typical options. Anything close to actual telephone poles (10"+ diameter) will take more labor to work with/install than a 2" steel post or 4x4 wood post, so the savings in material cost might be made up with labor. Even if someone offered me free, cut to length telephone poles, I'd think twice about using them just because of how cumbersome they are.


Here's a couple posts of enclosures using roof panels:

Wood for outdoor enclosure.

Plan on starting an outdoor area for my sulcata and red foots. I figured pressure treated 4x4’s about a foot and a half in the ground would be ok. But what about the actual fence. Was scouring the lumber section at Lowe’s and saw some of the wood can get quite expensive. Like the pressure...

tortoiseforum.org

Enclosure walls

Can anyone who has a very large sulcata show me what they use for their enclosure walls. We are moving soon and I want to build Tardis a new enclosure. Thank you.

tortoiseforum.org

I think longwise/horizontal is better than vertical, and if the panels are longer (16-20ft) theres considerably fewer seams.

And the fact that they're attached to posts is what keeps the panels from folding in on themselves?

 

[Tom]

I think longwise/horizontal is better than vertical, and if the panels are longer (16-20ft) theres considerably fewer seams.

Have you ever done it that way? Can we see some pictures of your work?

 

[Yvonne G]

His second link entitled "enclosure wall"

Enclosure walls

Can anyone who has a very large sulcata show me what they use for their enclosure walls. We are moving soon and I want to build Tardis a new enclosure. Thank you.

tortoiseforum.org

 

[jaizei]

And the fact that they're attached to posts is what keeps the panels from folding in on themselves?

The corrugated panels (first link) will roll up on themselves more if unsupported, but the panels Mike used (second link) don't bend as much. Regardless, screwing to posts should keep the panels where you want them.

I don't see a benefit or anything made easier by using the roofing panels vertically with a sulcata. With smaller tortoises you can use the ground to secure the bottom and have unsupported seams where the panels overlap, but not something I would risk with a sulcata. If the tortoise starts testing the walls more as they grow and the walls needed to be shored up, the horizontal panels would be significantly easier since they'd be intact panels without an overlapping seam every 3 ft or so.

 

[WaterBear]

I appreciate all the input!

The benefit of the telephone poles is how they are treated to prevent rot. We don't have to cut them or move them and will happily pay someone else to deal with that unpleasantness. Lots of the photos I'm seeing are in dry environments, but we're essentially in a swamp. Normal pressure treated lumber will rot pretty fast in our heat and humidity.

The reason for the chain link is to discourage dogs (our house is literally 50 ft from the Apalachicola National Forest so we get hunting dogs passing through in addition to the native critters). Our dog has not been interested in Sherlock when we've had him out in the yard, but I don't want to trust in that either. Nothing will keep out a determined predator, so the goal is to make getting in more trouble than it's worth. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a 6.5 ft tall fence (3 foot Galvalume with 6 inches buried and 4 feet of chain link) would discourage most things.

 

[SinLA]

I appreciate all the input!

The benefit of the telephone poles is how they are treated to prevent rot. We don't have to cut them or move them and will happily pay someone else to deal with that unpleasantness. Lots of the photos I'm seeing are in dry environments, but we're essentially in a swamp. Normal pressure treated lumber will rot pretty fast in our heat and humidity.

The reason for the chain link is to discourage dogs (our house is literally 50 ft from the Apalachicola National Forest so we get hunting dogs passing through in addition to the native critters). Our dog has not been interested in Sherlock when we've had him out in the yard, but I don't want to trust in that either. Nothing will keep out a determined predator, so the goal is to make getting in more trouble than it's worth. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a 6.5 ft tall fence (3 foot Galvalume with 6 inches buried and 4 feet of chain link) would discourage most things.

I cannot speak to Florida predators. I can say a 6 1/2 foot tall chain link fence would not keep coyotes out, here in California, but I also don’t know if coyotes are interested in tortoises… @Tom would know better.

 

[Miles&Marvin]

Excellent info! Thank you both so much!

The reason we are considering using a fencing company is to make sure it gets done ASAP. I know us, and we're bad about dragging our feet with projects of this scale. Meanwhile, our poor tortoise is stuck in his small indoor space. Since chain link with a privacy screen is ok, that’s probably the quickest and cheapest option but we’ll find out as we seek quotes. I know that’ll be taller than the 24” tall needed for the tortoise, but it should keep dogs out and hopefully discourage the bears. Sounds like adding electric fencing would be overkill.

We’ve been looking into buying an insulated doghouse instead of building something. Tom’s night box plans are genius, but we don’t have any power tools or the skills to use them. I’m properly ashamed but trying to be realistic. What about something like this: https://a.co/d/3NNmBap (59”x35” insulated doghouse)? We could add a Kane electric heat mat and a solid door. Our Sulcata will outgrow it someday, but it may need to be replaced due to wear and tear by then anyway.

Perennial peanut (Arachis glabrata) grows well in this area and is often used as a forage crop for other animals. I’m having trouble finding solid answers online about whether it’s good for tortoises. Any thoughts? Chick weed is another one that can grow well here and that seems confirmed as safe. Rye grass might be the fastest thing to get growing. I’m sure kudzu would do well, but I’m afraid it would take over the entire property in a blink.

I looked through the wonderful thread with toxic and edible plants (https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ts-both-edible-and-toxic-for-tortoises.14564/). The only toxic thing I saw on there that I know we have around is Virginia creeper, so we’ll make sure to pull any of that up. The area for the enclosure is mostly oaks, sparkleberry, smilax, palmetto, and more leaf litter than ground cover now. I’ll look at everything more closely this weekend as we select trees to remove for added sunshine.

My little Sulcata is 2 and growing fast. We live in So Cal so winters and actually year round require extra heat. I built the house below with heat lamps on a thermostat/ humidifier and ring camera. All sides and floor have 2” insulation.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Miles&Marvin .....Humidifier's inside enclosure are BAD, real BAD. You don't want your tort breathing in that. Just a tip.

 

[ecachuh]

My little Sulcata is 2 and growing fast. We live in So Cal so winters and actually year round require extra heat. I built the house below with heat lamps on a thermostat/ humidifier and ring camera. All sides and floor have 2” insulation.

Nice job on the build! I love it!

 

[Miles&Marvin]

@Miles&Marvin .....Humidifier's inside enclosure are BAD, real BAD. You don't want your tort breathing in that. Just a tip.

I only use it when she’s out heaving to moisten the interior.

 

[zolasmum]

Are you really a fan of tardigrades, Tom?
I am too- what remarkable creatures they are !
Angie

Third that .... Our amazing world has wonders that we just cannot understand. Tardigrades are just the beginning.

Explore this gift article from The New York Times. You can read it for free without a subscription.

What Makes Tiny Tardigrades Nearly Radiation Proof

New research finds that the microscopic “water bears" are remarkably good at repairing their DNA after a huge blast of radiation.

What Makes Tiny Tardigrades Nearly Radiation Proof

New research finds that the microscopic “water bears" are remarkably good at repairing their DNA after a huge blast of radiation.

www.nytimes.com