Pancake egg diary.

Kapidolo Farms

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I'm going to follow @CourtneyG 's example and keep my egg diary here. I've been doing that with spekii eggs in the hingeback sub-thread, it is a good system.

I had been hatching most eggs (poor record keeping) until fall of 2015, then phethp, zip, nada. Nothing. About (I didn't write it down) threw away 12-15 eggs tossed last fall, and now 21 eggs incubating, all showing no development or they have outright failed, by cracking and wheeping smelly stuff.

The colony we had at the Philly Zoo were all imported in the late 1970's from one of the Leakys (the family doing the cradle of humanity anthropology work). They all came from the most northern part of the range. I'd find the eggs laid same day or nest day at the zoo, and pop them into the incubator at 86F and they hatch in 78 to 90 days, like clockwork. Roughly 80%+ hatch rate.

So WTF is happening now? Several people have said they had poor hatch rates then they started a cooling period (diapause) then incubated in the mid to high 80's F.

I'm thinking those that did hatch at first got a cool rest period of sorts as at that time we lived in an apartment and the enclosures were situated such that I did not look for eggs but once a month. My behavior change has been to look more frequently now, also the garage they are in now tends to be warmer than the apartment, the micro climate of the exact place the tortoise enclosures had been and now are kept is different.

I have an impression which I chatted about here on TFO, but got no traction on, that different parts of the range may no doubt have different incubation requirements. Most WC pancakes that have come in after the USFWS memo prohibiting their import have come from the southern most part of the range.

This observation of range specific incubation has been well documenting in a few other species of aquatic turtle, so maybe pancakes too???

So I got a wine cabinet/chiller/frig thing. I set it to it's highest setting, 65F and watched it for four days. the temps range from 68F to 63.4 F. Yesterday Sunday 23 April I put all 21 eggs in for a two week low temp exposure. Some of those eggs are from April 2016 to more current. Not like they are developing anyways. When I pull them out I'll make a list of lay dates and post here.

My plan for new eggs going forward is one month in the incubator at 83, then 'some time' in the chiller, then back in the incubator at 86F. I'll try different chill periods.

I have 11 laying females so the supply of eggs is good. That group at the Philly Zoo was/is wonderful.
 

tortadise

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I utilize an Excell sheet for all the species. Each column is prior years etc. columns include;

Species, date laid, temperature barometer readings exterior, readings of nest, readings of enclosure or egg placement(sometimes outside), clutch size, and condition of egg (some are calcified or laid in water or on top of substrate).

I suppose my OCD of construction and documentation comes into play with this sort of relation to keeping animals.

It's also quite interesting in my own knowledge and every learning experience of keeping and breeding so many species. Noting which seasons or el neno affect (example) can play on animals ovideposition cycles. It's been quite quite interesting to say the least about moving the collection from a very hot summer to cold winter area to now a sub-tropic area. The cycles have shifted for some of the species.

In regards to the pancakes. I've toyed with a different method after last years eggs didn't hatch. Utilized a diapause yes. But not a temperature per say. More of a moisture diapause. Takes a bit longer but seems to develop nicely and pip just fine. I surprised one of my adult females in a trade and carried those same results to the owner of hatching his first one after many many years of attempts. Anyways. Pretty cool seeing shared methods succeed for others and most importantly the species.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I utilize an Excell sheet for all the species. Each column is prior years etc. columns include;

Species, date laid, temperature barometer readings exterior, readings of nest, readings of enclosure or egg placement(sometimes outside), clutch size, and condition of egg (some are calcified or laid in water or on top of substrate).

I suppose my OCD of construction and documentation comes into play with this sort of relation to keeping animals.

It's also quite interesting in my own knowledge and every learning experience of keeping and breeding so many species. Noting which seasons or el neno affect (example) can play on animals ovideposition cycles. It's been quite quite interesting to say the least about moving the collection from a very hot summer to cold winter area to now a sub-tropic area. The cycles have shifted for some of the species.

In regards to the pancakes. I've toyed with a different method after last years eggs didn't hatch. Utilized a diapause yes. But not a temperature per say. More of a moisture diapause. Takes a bit longer but seems to develop nicely and pip just fine. I surprised one of my adult females in a trade and carried those same results to the owner of hatching his first one after many many years of attempts. Anyways. Pretty cool seeing shared methods succeed for others and most importantly the species.


I think I sorted out you are a few hours from your reserve to your day to day?? Do you have someone who keeps these records. I guess I'm asking how do you keep records if you are not there ??
 

tortadise

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I think I sorted out you are a few hours from your reserve to your day to day?? Do you have someone who keeps these records. I guess I'm asking how do you keep records if you are not there ??
Yes yes indeed. My mom is the primary record keeper. She's awesome at it.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Well with the one month chill, I took all the pancake eggs out of the wine cooler and put them back in the 86F incubator on Saturday 27 May 2017.

Now the the wait begins anew to see what may happen.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I got a new egg from colony four on Saturday. It may have already been in the enclosure undetected? I put it in the 86F incubator. In about a month it will go into the chiller if no embryo can be detected with candling.
 
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