Pyramiding in redfoot tortoise

[Anyfoot]

Hi everyone

I have been reading some of the past thread posts on the topic of pyramiding.

There seem to be a lot of conflicting opinion on this topic. I'm determining to grow my 3 redfoot juveniles with
a smooth shell. I have them in a vivarium with a heat thermostat controlled environment. The heat is an ambient heat via a ceramic bulb of 80F to 86F with humidity of 70% to 80% at ground level.(bearing in mind most hygrometers are only accurate to +/-5%). There is also uvb strip bulb in and the viv is 2x4ft. I am recording there weight, size and appearance regularly. So to help me with my thoughts and ideas i could do with some opinions.
I've read that in the wild juveniles spend a lot of there time hiding from predators. Is this true and if so does this rule out the plenty of exercise thoughts.
Also could someone take a stab at giving me a list of everything that a juvenile gets calcium from in the wild.
How much uv from the sun would a juvenile actually be exposed to on average a daily routine in the wild.

One last thing. Could anybody tell me what temperature my substrate should be at.

Any comments welcome

Thank you

Craig

 

[tortdad]

2 things jump out at me right off the bat. #1 being your humidity level.... It better if you can keep it 90% or better. Mine stays at 99%, the lowest I let it get is 94%.
#2 the size of your viv. It's much to small for 3 torts. It's kind of small for 1 let alone 3.

Questions about your ub bulb. Is it a UVB or just UVA? How high above the tortoise is it mounted? Is it a regular bulb or a HO bulb (high output)? 5.0 or 10.0? All this matters to determine if your guys are getting enough UVB or not. Do they get any outside time for natural sun shine? UVI is the index measurement used to determine UVB levels. A standard tube bulb 5.0 puts out like 0.7 UVI which is fine for a box turtle but not for a tortoise. A standard 10.0 bulb puts out 1.0. A high output 5.0 puts out 2.5 on the UVI scale. From what I saw a Redfoot needs 1.0-3.0

A cuttle fish bone is all they need for calcium. What foods to do offer?

 

[Anyfoot]

Hi tortdad

I'm at work at the minute. When i get home later I will get all the info on my uv bulb.
I feed them on fruit, veg, weeds, greens and 1 pinkie a week. They have cuttlefish.
My uv bulb is 16" above them. How big an environment do you recommend for 3 juveniles.

Thanks

 

[tortdad]

Hi tortdad

I'm at work at the minute. When i get home later I will get all the info on my uv bulb.
I feed them on fruit, veg, weeds, greens and 1 pinkie a week. They have cuttlefish.
My uv bulb is 16" above them. How big an environment do you recommend for 3 juveniles.

Thanks

Double check that height 16" is really high up, even for a high output bulb.
How big are your torts? 2x4 space is minimum size for one juvy 10 square foot per juvy is a good starting point. I have 2 juvys right now in a spot twice the size of yours and I'm building them one now that's going to end up about 30 sf.

 

[Anyfoot]

My juvys are 3".
I did have humidity at 95% but after reading mike pilkinton book I dropped it 2 days ago. I'll raise it again. I'll also work on a bigger enclosure.
Are my temps ok. As I dropped them 2 days ago aswell.##

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Swap out the pinkies with something less gruesome and less prone to disease. Very high quality dog food is what I use. (Also because I have a dog.) Protein is about 20%. Maybe less per week. Fruit is less than 10%. My temps are at 80-85 degrees and humidity is 80-95%. I use no basking areas. My 5.0 Reptisun tube light is about 6" away from the substrate.

 

[Anyfoot]

2 things jump out at me right off the bat. #1 being your humidity level.... It better if you can keep it 90% or better. Mine stays at 99%, the lowest I let it get is 94%.
#2 the size of your viv. It's much to small for 3 torts. It's kind of small for 1 let alone 3.

Questions about your ub bulb. Is it a UVB or just UVA? How high above the tortoise is it mounted? Is it a regular bulb or a HO bulb (high output)? 5.0 or 10.0? All this matters to determine if your guys are getting enough UVB or not. Do they get any outside time for natural sun shine? UVI is the index measurement used to determine UVB levels. A standard tube bulb 5.0 puts out like 0.7 UVI which is fine for a box turtle but not for a tortoise. A standard 10.0 bulb puts out 1.0. A high output 5.0 puts out 2.5 on the UVI scale. From what I saw a Redfoot needs 1.0-3.0

A cuttle fish bone is all they need for calcium. What foods to do offer?

Hi again

Just had a look at my bulb and its an Arcadia D3 reptile, 6% UVB output high performance.

 

[Yvonne G]

I like to use Purina Pro Plan dry cat food as the animal protein source.

 

[Anyfoot]

I like to use Purina Pro Plan dry cat food as the animal protein source.

How much do you let them eat. My redfoots love dry catfood and upto now I've kept them away from it because I wasn't sure if they should eat it.

 

[Yvonne G]

I feed it once a week along with that day's greens, but it's the majority of the meal that day.

 

[Turtlepete]

Cooked chicken, turkey and fish work well for meat protein as well. I personally prefer it over cat and dog foods. Not to bash those who do, but I just don't feel cheap purina-brand food is nearly as nutritious to satisfy the meat protein demand as just regular cooked meat, ya' know?

Your viv is a fine size for hatchlings/yearlings, which in the picture looks to be what you have. UV bulb is a little bit high, temperatures are excellent, humidity could be bumped up slightly, but not a big deal. Overall sounds like you have everything good!

 

[Anyfoot]

Cooked chicken, turkey and fish work well for meat protein as well. I personally prefer it over cat and dog foods. Not to bash those who do, but I just don't feel cheap purina-brand food is nearly as nutritious to satisfy the meat protein demand as just regular cooked meat, ya' know?

Your viv is a fine size for hatchlings/yearlings, which in the picture looks to be what you have. UV bulb is a little bit high, temperatures are excellent, humidity could be bumped up slightly, but not a big deal. Overall sounds like you have everything good!

They are from may this year so 7 months old. How high do you have your uv light.

 

[tortdad]

My juvys are 3".
I did have humidity at 95% but after reading mike pilkinton book I dropped it 2 days ago. I'll raise it again. I'll also work on a bigger enclosure.
Are my temps ok. As I dropped them 2 days ago aswell.##

Temps are good. Yours is still small so don't let the night time lows get below 80. Dog/cat food is a good protein source but the key is to use a "weight management" formula. I don't feed mice just because my wife thinks it's mean. I use Mazuri, cooked chicken, turkey, fish, or shrimp. I feed animal protein 2 times a month and once a week do plant proteins like mushrooms or kale. That's a great UV bulb but just remember that Redfoots like filtered light and live in the shade of the rainforest so use lots of plants (real or fake) to offer shade. Real plant offer "snacks" and help hold humidity so make sure they are safe plants.

 

[crimson_lotus]

I only offer protein once a month, and my humidity can range from 80-90%, although Mazuri is given 3x weekly which does have more protein than usual.
I'm surprised to hear that fruit is only offered as 10% as I feed mine fruit 3x a week. It's so interesting to hear the slightly different ways everyone takes care of their Redfoot.

 

[naturalman91]

2 things jump out at me right off the bat. #1 being your humidity level.... It better if you can keep it 90% or better. Mine stays at 99%, the lowest I let it get is 94%.
#2 the size of your viv. It's much to small for 3 torts. It's kind of small for 1 let alone 3.

Questions about your ub bulb. Is it a UVB or just UVA? How high above the tortoise is it mounted? Is it a regular bulb or a HO bulb (high output)? 5.0 or 10.0? All this matters to determine if your guys are getting enough UVB or not. Do they get any outside time for natural sun shine? UVI is the index measurement used to determine UVB levels. A standard tube bulb 5.0 puts out like 0.7 UVI which is fine for a box turtle but not for a tortoise. A standard 10.0 bulb puts out 1.0. A high output 5.0 puts out 2.5 on the UVI scale. From what I saw a Redfoot needs 1.0-3.0

A cuttle fish bone is all they need for calcium. What foods to do offer?

you might wanna be careful keeping it at 99% yes reds need high humidity but you don't want your substrate soaked 80%-90% would be fine to i keep mine at about 85% with temps being in the 80s constantly most of the time when i get a 99% reading its to wet

 

[Anyfoot]

Ok everyone this is good. Learning a lot here. I know there are ratios involved with feeding and I do only feed some of the following every now and then. Here is a list of everything I feed my torts at some time or another. Is there anything on my list that is a no no and why. Is there anything that I'm missing that is crucial to there diet.
Greens, romaine lettuce, rocket, cress, kale, dandelion, clover, sticky buds, mushrooms, bell pepper, butternut squash, tomatoes, cucumber, sweetcorn, kiwi, strawberry, green and red grapes, melon, apple, pear, plum, banana, low fat cat meat, low fat cat biscuits, pinkies, and cuttlefish.
Also although my heat seems correct the tortoise don't feel warm, they are not stone cold either. Reason I'm asking, I was in a reptile shop a couple of months ago and he had 2 very lively redfoots in a viv. When I got the shop keeper to let me hold them they were very warm. He also said the temps want to be at about 36deg (97F).
At the time I thought he seemed to know what he was on about, now I'm thinking those torts were lively because they were uncomfortable.( Bloody hell have I got to go and rescue 2 more. My mrs will go mad lol ).
Does anybody have any idea what temp the substrate should be at?
Thank you all

 

[naturalman91]

Ok everyone this is good. Learning a lot here. I know there are ratios involved with feeding and I do only feed some of the following every now and then. Here is a list of everything I feed my torts at some time or another. Is there anything on my list that is a no no and why. Is there anything that I'm missing that is crucial to there diet.
Greens, romaine lettuce, rocket, cress, kale, dandelion, clover, sticky buds, mushrooms, bell pepper, butternut squash, tomatoes, cucumber, sweetcorn, kiwi, strawberry, green and red grapes, melon, apple, pear, plum, banana, low fat cat meat, low fat cat biscuits, pinkies, and cuttlefish.
Also although my heat seems correct the tortoise don't feel warm, they are not stone cold either. Reason I'm asking, I was in a reptile shop a couple of months ago and he had 2 very lively redfoots in a viv. When I got the shop keeper to let me hold them they were very warm. He also said the temps want to be at about 36deg (97F).
At the time I thought he seemed to know what he was on about, now I'm thinking those torts were lively because they were uncomfortable.( Bloody hell have I got to go and rescue 2 more. My mrs will go mad lol ).
Does anybody have any idea what temp the substrate should be at?
Thank you all

it's not a substrate temp you want it's a ambient temp and 97 is to high for sure you want a ambient temp of in the 80s if your ambient temps are met and kept up don't worry about substrate temps

 

[Tom]

It was a RF keeper that taught me about shell spraying. I have not seen it mentioned here. If you spray the carapace with water 3-4 times a day, it helps to prevent pyramiding, along with all the other advice here. It works on other species too.

You need to get a UV meter under your bulb. That is the only way to know if your mounting height is correct. No one here or anywhere can answer that question. It is different for different enclosures even with the same bulb and fixture. Without a meter, all of us are just guessing.

Do keep an eye out for shell rot on the plastrons of your babies. It is difficult to maintain high humidity and a dry substrate at the same time unless you are using a closed chamber. A constantly damp substrate will frequently cause shell rot in this species.

Good luck!

 

[Anyfoot]

It was a RF keeper that taught me about shell spraying. I have not seen it mentioned here. If you spray the carapace with water 3-4 times a day, it helps to prevent pyramiding, along with all the other advice here. It works on other species too.

You need to get a UV meter under your bulb. That is the only way to know if your mounting height is correct. No one here or anywhere can answer that question. It is different for different enclosures even with the same bulb and fixture. Without a meter, all of us are just guessing.

Do keep an eye out for shell rot on the plastrons of your babies. It is difficult to maintain high humidity and a dry substrate at the same time unless you are using a closed chamber. A constantly damp substrate will frequently cause shell rot in this species.

Good luck!

Hi Tom
OK I will get a uv meter. Yes we do spray there shells. Admittedly not 4 times a day though. I am also using a closed chamber. The substrate is damp but not sodden.
I'm now thinking of building in the vivarium a mesh of plants and moss above them and not on the ground. So to create a canopy effect that holds the humidity level without excess damp in the substrate. I check my torts every day thoroughly.

 

[tortdad]

you might wanna be careful keeping it at 99% yes reds need high humidity but you don't want your substrate soaked 80%-90% would be fine to i keep mine at about 85% with temps being in the 80s constantly most of the time when i get a 99% reading its to wet

I don't have any problems at 99% with a closed chamber. My top layer is dry and I've not had any shell rot (knocking on wood). When I add water I don't just pour it on top. I do it in the corners, I shove the top layer to the side.... Pour some water in... Then move the top layer back. This helps me stay dry at all times on my top layer. I don't use any misting system other than spraying my torts shells.