Pyramiding

[Lovely tortoise]

As I know, pyramiding happens the most when it is too dry for the tortoise. However, I provide my tortoise with very humid environment, which the humidity is 50%-65% in the day, and 65%-81% during the night. But my little Herman still get pyramiding. There is one to notice, my little Herman eats a lot, and very smart. He ask for food from time to time. I admit that I spoiled him a little bit by providing lots of food every day. I got him at March 23, and was 4.4cm 35g. And he is 5.8cm 82g right now. Is it because I give him too much food? He have a Mazuri per day, or vegetable approximately the size of his body or more, he never stop eating unless I stop him.lol. He seldom got grass since he is still too little, I give him grass only once a week. Shower every other day. Got sunshine per hour a day as long as it's not rainy. Hope to get your helpful reply soon!

 

[Lovely tortoise]

Here is two picture, first one is March, and the second one is recently when I find him pyramiding. Please help.

 

[Tom]

A few things I notice:
1. How are you measuring humidity? What type of hygrometer? I see you are using reptile carpet as a substrate and it is very unlikely that your humidity is that high. They need to be on a damp substrate that is deep enough for them to burrow into.
2. How are you heating and lighting this enclosure? What are your four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?
3. They should be eating mostly broadleaf weeds that are high in fiber and calcium, not fruits and vegetables.
4. I would recommend only feeding Mazuri twice a week.
5. What size enclosure is he in and what size enclosure does he have outside?

 

[HermanniChris]

I agree with what Tom has stated. Your substrate needs to change immediately and you must stop all fruit and cut way back on vegetables. Broad leaf weeds, some other greens and mazuri should make up the diet. There is absolutely no need for fruits. As for temps, you should not be using any nighttime heat source for this species unless the overnight temperature is falling into the high 50s to very low 60s. This species needs to cool down at night and they can take it cool, way cooler than once thought. A common misconception is that Hermann's need nighttime heat, which they do not. It aids in further dehydrating the animal.

 

[Lovely tortoise]

A few things I notice:
1. How are you measuring humidity? What type of hygrometer? I see you are using reptile carpet as a substrate and it is very unlikely that your humidity is that high. They need to be on a damp substrate that is deep enough for them to burrow into.
2. How are you heating and lighting this enclosure? What are your four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?
3. They should be eating mostly broadleaf weeds that are high in fiber and calcium, not fruits and vegetables.
4. I would recommend only feeding Mazuri twice a week.
5. What size enclosure is he in and what size enclosure does he have outside?

I'm so happy to got your reply, since I'm a feeder from Hong Kong, and has been reading your artical for two years about how to feed sulcata will ect. Never thought can talk to you one day!
Yeah, here is my answer to your answers.
1. I only use the carpet for several days than I change it into cocount soil( don't know if you call it the same, I think i forgot the name you use) But pic will be post below.
2. I use 25watt lamp for him to gain enough temp at daytime. And none for the night. It is approximately 84.2 at warm side and 80.6 at cold side, basking area 89.6 or higher.
3.I provide them with Dandelion and plantains, little Timothy Mazuri and Sudo, T-Rex. Are there anymore broadleaf I can choose? Yes I provide vegetables too.
4.Ok, I will reduce the frequency of commercial stuff!
5. He is now having a 80*45cm enclosure, but back few month only 54*40cm enclosure was provided.

 

[Lovely tortoise]

The second picture is during very cold night, so I used a 25watt night bulb. And under this cover-with-hole is the coconut soil, so as to maintain the humidity. And the electronic meter is for measure the humidity.

 

[Lovely tortoise]

I agree with what Tom has stated. Your substrate needs to change immediately and you must stop all fruit and cut way back on vegetables. Broad leaf weeds, some other greens and mazuri should make up the diet. There is absolutely no need for fruits. As for temps, you should not be using any nighttime heat source for this species unless the overnight temperature is falling into the high 50s to very low 60s. This species needs to cool down at night and they can take it cool, way cooler than once thought. A common misconception is that Hermann's need nighttime heat, which they do not. It aids in further dehydrating the animal.

Oh! I just happen to give him a little fruit that day, only once a year. I know it is very bad idea for them to eat fruit. And thanks you for remind me again for that! Is there any broadleaf I can choose too? Except dandelion or plantain? Oh, I never know they can endure such a low temp while they were a baby! It is about 75.2 at the night, can he take any lower? Would he catch a cold? I'm very concerned about that. Thank you for your gorgeous advise, I'll take them down for sure!

 

[Tom]

A covered top will hold in more humidity.
Spraying the tortoises carapace a few times a day with plain water usually helps to reduce pyramiding.
Soak daily for the next year or so.
75 at night is fine. Down to about 65 is fine for small ones.
I would not use that colored bulb in your pic at any time.

Here is a list of good things to feed:
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food

 

[Lovely tortoise]

A covered top will hold in more humidity.
Spraying the tortoises carapace a few times a day with plain water usually helps to reduce pyramiding.
Soak daily for the next year or so.
75 at night is fine. Down to about 65 is fine for small ones.
I would not use that colored bulb in your pic at any time.

Here is a list of good things to feed:
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food

Thank you soooo much for typing that lots of leafs and weeds! Yeah, my box has cover top. I would really like to soak him once a day, but will he have diarrhoea because of that? Ok, i think I will spray water from now on. Oh! Why is that bulb bad? How will you do when it's too cold at night? And one more question, do you think eating too much also cause him this pyramiding as well? Should I get control of how much he eat or I can just give him as much as he want? Thank you so much for your advice again!

 

[Tom]

1. Daily soaking does not cause diarrhea, it does not cause them to move their food through their bowels too quickly, and it does not disturb their "water balance". It does keep them hydrated and help their shell grow smoother.
2. Colored bulbs make things look funny to the tortoise. It messes with their perception of the day/night cycle and it sometimes makes them eat things they shouldn't like their substrate. As Herrmannichris pointed out, unless your house is getting below the low 60s (below 17 C) at night, you don't need night heat. If your house is getting colder than that at night then you ought to use a ceramic heating element set on a thermostat to keep night temps around 20 C.
3. Pyramiding is not caused by food. It is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. If you are feeding the right foods and housing your tortoise in a large enough enclosure, you should be able to let your tortoise graze freely. Feeding the wrong foods or using small enclosures will not yield good results in most cases.

Hope this helps and I'm glad to see people in China enjoying our forum. Glad we could help.

 

[Lovely tortoise]

1. Daily soaking does not cause diarrhea, it does not cause them to move their food through their bowels too quickly, and it does not disturb their "water balance". It does keep them hydrated and help their shell grow smoother.
2. Colored bulbs make things look funny to the tortoise. It messes with their perception of the day/night cycle and it sometimes makes them eat things they shouldn't like their substrate. As Herrmannichris pointed out, unless your house is getting below the low 60s (below 17 C) at night, you don't need night heat. If your house is getting colder than that at night then you ought to use a ceramic heating element set on a thermostat to keep night temps around 20 C.
3. Pyramiding is not caused by food. It is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. If you are feeding the right foods and housing your tortoise in a large enough enclosure, you should be able to let your tortoise graze freely. Feeding the wrong foods or using small enclosures will not yield good results in most cases.

Hope this helps and I'm glad to see people in China enjoying our forum. Glad we could help.

Thank you so much for your answers!We have learned a lot from you, your articles really help us to feed tortoise in a better way.
And your answer for my questions explained lots of my confuse, very very helpful! I'll memorize them for sure.
Thank you again for your fervent of sharing experience on feeding tortoise! Hope you get a nice day!