Redfoot hatchling missing two nails

[berrybon]

Hi! I am about to rescue a red foot tortoise hatchling (about 6-7cm, not sure about the age or hatch date). I've been wanting to adopt one for months and suddenly met this baby. I noticed that he is missing two of his right front toenails, I'm not sure what happened; the previous owner has no idea whatsoever. Will it grow back? is there any special treatment I need to do?
Currently, I have a 6-month-old sulcata hatchling. I already bought and set up the red foot enclosure and lighting (it's totally separated from the sulcata). Is there anything else I need I need to prepare before the baby arrives?
Just a bit of background, I live in Indonesia. While it's a bit tricky for sulcata, the temps and humidity are actually perfect for Red Foot. It's sunny all year round. But just to be safe, I already prepared a closed chamber so that he would be indoors at least for a year. I also plant hibiscus and mulberry in my yard for my sulcata, so I guess the leaves and flower needs for red foot is already taken care of. But I am still a bit unsure about the protein need for red foot, though. Do I need to add maggots every now and then?
I also use Mazuri pellets for my sulcata, do I need to give the redfoot pellets as well? Can he eat the same pellets?
Sorry I couldn't attach his picture as he's still with his previous owner, but will update as soon as he is here

 

[Tom]

Missing toenails is one of the signs of the horrible tortoise disease that is going around right now called Austwikia chelonae. Look for any blisters or pustules on the skin. If you do take in this animal, quarantine it far from any other chelonian, and exercise strict bio-security.

 

[berrybon]

Missing toenails is one of the signs of the horrible tortoise disease that is going around right now called Austwikia chelonae. Look for any blisters or pustules on the skin. If you do take in this animal, quarantine it far from any other chelonian, and exercise strict bio-security.

I just googled the disease, and it seems like it is usually followed by water-puss blisters, isn't it? I'll take a picture of the feet condition once he arrives. Initially, I thought he was just missing his nails by digging, but I'll check whether there are any blisters, open infection, etc. Is there any skin medication that I need to prepare beforehand? Just to be extra safe, do I need to use gloves/change my clothes after handling him and before I handle my sulcata - or washing my hands is enough?
My friend Sulcata was infected with a fungal infection and refused to eat after he rescued a yellow-foot tortoise. It turns out the yf was infected with a fungal infection and sadly died a few days later. So, just want to be extra cautious.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! Hopefully it isn’t what Tom thinks it is, that could be detrimental to your other tortoise

I don’t suppose you’d mind including a photo of the set up you plan to put them in?

What temps have you achieved? What kind of heating/lighting are you using? Humidity levels? Substrate? Size? Indoor uv?

Any additional photos and info would be great

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I just googled the disease, and it seems like it is usually followed by water-puss blisters, isn't it? I'll take a picture of the feet condition once he arrives. Initially, I thought he was just missing his nails by digging, but I'll check whether there are any blisters, open infection, etc. Is there any skin medication that I need to prepare beforehand? Just to be extra safe, do I need to use gloves/change my clothes after handling him and before I handle my sulcata - or washing my hands is enough?
My friend Sulcata was infected with a fungal infection and refused to eat after he rescued a yellow-foot tortoise. It turns out the yf was infected with a fungal infection and sadly died a few days later. So, just want to be extra cautious.

You can check this thread on possible treatment and more information:

Austwickia chelonae - New Information & What to do if you see it

OK guys. During the past year I have observed/treated tortoises with Austwickia and documented the results. I have also discussed this disease with several veterinarians at this point and it's time for a data dump. General information on the disease: 1. The "yellow bump" disease is caused...

tortoiseforum.org

You'll have to adjust enclosure for your redfoot to prevent infection from blooming. Austwikia is highly contagious and you will have to use disposable gloves, separate sets of bathing and feeding accessories and so on. If the infection is confirmed, I recommend you to read the threads on this forum and ask for advice from some members who have dealt with it.

 

[berrybon]

You can check this thread on possible treatment and more information:

Austwickia chelonae - New Information & What to do if you see it

OK guys. During the past year I have observed/treated tortoises with Austwickia and documented the results. I have also discussed this disease with several veterinarians at this point and it's time for a data dump. General information on the disease: 1. The "yellow bump" disease is caused...

tortoiseforum.org

You'll have to adjust enclosure for your redfoot to prevent infection from blooming. Austwikia is highly contagious and you will have to use disposable gloves, separate sets of bathing and feeding accessories and so on. If the infection is confirmed, I recommend you to read the threads on this forum and ask for advice from some members who have dealt with it.

Thank you SO MUCH @Alex and the Redfoot and @Tom . I'm really glad I posted before he arrived. I've been planning on quarantining him for a couple of days, but now I think I'll need to adjust it to make it more safer. I think first thing first, once he arrives, I'll check for any bumps/lesions. I thought I only needed to check the toe, but I'll check his whole body then. I also thought I could soak them at the same time from a separate tub. But I guess I'll soak them in different places and times just to be safe. I am still hoping that it is just a minor injury. I'll update you again once he arrives!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Yes, please keep us updated! I really hope it's not Austwikia.

 

[berrybon]

Hello and welcome! Hopefully, it isn’t what Tom thinks it is that could be detrimental to your other tortoise

I don’t suppose you’d mind including a photo of the set up you plan to put them in?

What temps have you achieved? What kind of heating/lighting are you using? Humidity levels? Substrate? Size? Indoor uv?

Any additional photos and info would be great

Hi! I'm currently not home, but I'll take a pic of the enclosure as soon as I get home. I am planning to reach 30'c on the hot side, humidity 70'-80'. The enclosure that I got is quite small (60x40cm); I'm sure he'll outgrow it in no time. But since it's quite small, it's a bit hard to maintain the humidity, given the temperature. I have to recheck the cool side temperature as well. Previously, when I used it to temporarily house my sulcata when the hot side was 32', the cool side was about 29-30'. I'll recheck the temps for the red foot.
I use UVA, and coco coir for bedding (I kinda like it better than coco husk for hatchlings). I didn't use UVB as it's sunny year-round here, so I just let them sunbathe every morning for 15-30mins.

I live in Jakarta, so the temperature ranges from 26-29 (sometimes even 33'c); it's always hot and humid. It is great for tortoises, but not so great for humans, haha. Initially, I planned to let him outside in an outside enclosure for an hour or so every day. But now that it's possibly Austwikia, honestly, I am rethinking everything.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hi! I'm currently not home, but I'll take a pic of the enclosure as soon as I get home. I am planning to reach 30'c on the hot side, humidity 70'-80'. The enclosure that I got is quite small (60x40cm); I'm sure he'll outgrow it in no time. But since it's quite small, it's a bit hard to maintain the humidity, given the temperature. I have to recheck the cool side temperature as well. Previously, when I used it to temporarily house my sulcata when the hot side was 32', the cool side was about 29-30'. I'll recheck the temps for the red foot.
I use UVA, and coco coir for bedding (I kinda like it better than coco husk for hatchlings). I didn't use UVB as it's sunny year-round here, so I just let them sunbathe every morning for 15-30mins.

I live in Jakarta, so the temperature ranges from 26-29 (sometimes even 33'c); it's always hot and humid. It is great for tortoises, but not so great for humans, haha. Initially, I planned to let him outside in an outside enclosure for an hour or so every day. But now that it's possibly Austwikia, honestly, I am rethinking everything.

Most of that sounds pretty good! There are a few tweaks I think you’ll appreciate a heads up on, for example, humidity needs to be 80+ all over 24/7 for a hatchling, which will be very hard to maintain with an open top, you’d be best going with a closed chamber.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle a starter set up and hopefully you can apply some of the informationyou may know a lot of it already but I include everything for potential new members who come across threads, hopefully some of it helps you too thoughI know some of the equipment I’m attaching could be difficult to get depending on location, they’re just examples to give you an idea

When a hatchling, they do best in a closed chamber set up to better control the temperature and humidity, I would never recommend housing a hatchling outside of enclosed chamber.

I’m going to include some information on examples of the correct kind of equipment to use and levels etc, hopefully it helps!

If using a light emitting heat source it should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached)on a 12 hour timer, using a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) for night heat.

However I think ceramics as a heat source are more suited to red foot’s and far less desiccating on their shells.

Red foot’s don’t necessarily need a ‘basking area’ they aren’t typically a basking species coming from the forest floor(some do though, it depends on the individual) there’s no need for a ‘cooler end’ and ‘warmer end’ with these guys, aim for an overall ambient temperature range of 80-86(82-84 being optimal)temps shouldn’t ever be going below 80 all over both night&day.

Personally we rely on CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) as our heat source 24/7, on thermostats, they’re a non light emitting bulb and I think you’ll find it easier sticking to these as your heat source to keep your temps nice and stable. When using multiple hang them equal distance to distribute the heat more evenly.

Large wide dome fittings will help project the heat down, but don’t rely on the clamps that come with them, always hang them securely.

You can then hang some ambient lighting on a 12hour timer, it can being either a led strip or a led bulb in 5000k-65000k colour range. Create lots of shady areas with safe plants and hides, red foots don’t like things too bright.

Any indoor UV needs to be provided as a t5 tube fluorescent light, the compact or all in one bulbs either are too harsh creating uv hot spots that can damage their eyes, or are far too weak. As you say you’re letting them get daily sun, this won’t be needed for youJust make sure it’s not too warm and they’re in a secure run with lots of shade.

Your little one will need around 80%+ humidity 24/7 to thrive, the right substrate and a good closed chamber set up goes a long way in making this work. You’ll constantly struggle with an open top.

We personally keep our red foot on orchid bark, we focus on the under layer of the substrate being nice and damp to create the humidity, then the top layer being dry, the trouble with constantly spraying is, one, it can only lasts so long, and two, keeping that top layer constantly damp will leave them more prone to a fungal infection, avoid misters/foggers for this reason too, the humidifiers can also make the air too wet leading to respiratory issues. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry because you don’t want dusty substrate, we mix it now n then, which also helps gives a humidity boost without extra waterto maintain our humidity we simply pour some lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads! Just enough to dampen the whole under layer. You can keep an eye on your monitors&substrate to do the pours as and when needed, which in a good closed chamber set up, you shouldn’t have to do loads

Substrate wise never add any kind of moss, that’s something some stores think nothing of, but it can actually cause lethal impactions.

Don’t use any top soils or anything mixed with sand.

Safe substrate options are coco coir, damp and packed down by hand as a base, with orchid bark(fir not pine) on top, or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/ forest floor on their own.

Size wise I’d generally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, this tortoise full grown is going to need a large, secure outdoor space if your climate is good for it, which sounds like it is.

A good cost effective closed chamber set up would be a greenhouse style enclosure by making your own large base out of a safe material, or even use a garden bed frame! For both these options line with some cheap pond liner, the lining going up the sides too and make sure those sides are high enough. Then simply secure a greenhouse topper on top, if you can’t find an exact fit, place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d place some lining under the cover and base though to avoid condensate getting on your floor.

Some people even hang their lighting and heat from the greenhouse frame!(if it feels sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire around for the height you need(check with a temperature gun/add thermostats, roughly 18-21 inches for the uv) and secure with cable ties and chains. Or you could make your own stands out of safe timber, I’ll attach some pics.

For a water dish a large terracotta saucer, sitting flush with the substrate is safest, they have grip in the event the tortoise flips, most pet store options are a hazard.

Id definitely recommend a temp gun to make sure your monitors are reading correctly. Have digital monitors that read both temp and humidity.

Ignore whatever else is in the photos in the enclosures, they’re just to give you an ideaand ignore that some of the fittings in the pics are floodlights, ches will work great, just examples on how to hang your bulbs

Also as this is a closed chamber set up, the materials like the lining and cover will need time to off gas, I’d leave it all running up to a week, or until there is no odour, if there’s no smell, it’s safe for use.

Hopefully some of this helps! And will maybe inspire an idea moving forward as this little one grows, hopefully you can figure out the quarantine situationwishing you all the best from the uk

 

[berrybon]

Most of that sounds pretty good! There are a few tweaks I think you’ll appreciate a heads up on, for example, humidity needs to be 80+ all over 24/7 for a hatchling, which will be very hard to maintain with an open top, you’d be best going with a closed chamber.

I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle a starter set up and hopefully you can apply some of the informationyou may know a lot of it already but I include everything for potential new members who come across threads, hopefully some of it helps you too thoughI know some of the equipment I’m attaching could be difficult to get depending on location, they’re just examples to give you an idea

When a hatchling, they do best in a closed chamber set up to better control the temperature and humidity, I would never recommend housing a hatchling outside of enclosed chamber.

I’m going to include some information on examples of the correct kind of equipment to use and levels etc, hopefully it helps!

If using a light emitting heat source it should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached)on a 12 hour timer, using a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) for night heat.

However I think ceramics as a heat source are more suited to red foot’s and far less desiccating on their shells.

Red foot’s don’t necessarily need a ‘basking area’ they aren’t typically a basking species coming from the forest floor(some do though, it depends on the individual) there’s no need for a ‘cooler end’ and ‘warmer end’ with these guys, aim for an overall ambient temperature range of 80-86(82-84 being optimal)temps shouldn’t ever be going below 80 all over both night&day.

Personally we rely on CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) as our heat source 24/7, on thermostats, they’re a non light emitting bulb and I think you’ll find it easier sticking to these as your heat source to keep your temps nice and stable. When using multiple hang them equal distance to distribute the heat more evenly.

Large wide dome fittings will help project the heat down, but don’t rely on the clamps that come with them, always hang them securely.

You can then hang some ambient lighting on a 12hour timer, it can being either a led strip or a led bulb in 5000k-65000k colour range. Create lots of shady areas with safe plants and hides, red foots don’t like things too bright.

Any indoor UV needs to be provided as a t5 tube fluorescent light, the compact or all in one bulbs either are too harsh creating uv hot spots that can damage their eyes, or are far too weak. As you say you’re letting them get daily sun, this won’t be needed for youJust make sure it’s not too warm and they’re in a secure run with lots of shade.

Your little one will need around 80%+ humidity 24/7 to thrive, the right substrate and a good closed chamber set up goes a long way in making this work. You’ll constantly struggle with an open top.

We personally keep our red foot on orchid bark, we focus on the under layer of the substrate being nice and damp to create the humidity, then the top layer being dry, the trouble with constantly spraying is, one, it can only lasts so long, and two, keeping that top layer constantly damp will leave them more prone to a fungal infection, avoid misters/foggers for this reason too, the humidifiers can also make the air too wet leading to respiratory issues. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry because you don’t want dusty substrate, we mix it now n then, which also helps gives a humidity boost without extra waterto maintain our humidity we simply pour some lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads! Just enough to dampen the whole under layer. You can keep an eye on your monitors&substrate to do the pours as and when needed, which in a good closed chamber set up, you shouldn’t have to do loads

Substrate wise never add any kind of moss, that’s something some stores think nothing of, but it can actually cause lethal impactions.

Don’t use any top soils or anything mixed with sand.

Safe substrate options are coco coir, damp and packed down by hand as a base, with orchid bark(fir not pine) on top, or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/ forest floor on their own.

Size wise I’d generally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, this tortoise full grown is going to need a large, secure outdoor space if your climate is good for it, which sounds like it is.

A good cost effective closed chamber set up would be a greenhouse style enclosure by making your own large base out of a safe material, or even use a garden bed frame! For both these options line with some cheap pond liner, the lining going up the sides too and make sure those sides are high enough. Then simply secure a greenhouse topper on top, if you can’t find an exact fit, place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d place some lining under the cover and base though to avoid condensate getting on your floor.

Some people even hang their lighting and heat from the greenhouse frame!(if it feels sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire around for the height you need(check with a temperature gun/add thermostats, roughly 18-21 inches for the uv) and secure with cable ties and chains. Or you could make your own stands out of safe timber, I’ll attach some pics.

For a water dish a large terracotta saucer, sitting flush with the substrate is safest, they have grip in the event the tortoise flips, most pet store options are a hazard.

Id definitely recommend a temp gun to make sure your monitors are reading correctly. Have digital monitors that read both temp and humidity.

Ignore whatever else is in the photos in the enclosures, they’re just to give you an ideaand ignore that some of the fittings in the pics are floodlights, ches will work great, just examples on how to hang your bulbs

Also as this is a closed chamber set up, the materials like the lining and cover will need time to off gas, I’d leave it all running up to a week, or until there is no odour, if there’s no smell, it’s safe for use.

Hopefully some of this helps! And will maybe inspire an idea moving forward as this little one grows, hopefully you can figure out the quarantine situationwishing you all the best from the uk

Hi, thank you for taking time to answer! I used to live in Glasgow for a year, really missing the Christmas market and having Greggs and Pret for breakfast!
Initially we planned to stack the redfoot and sulcata enclosure, but now we move the redfoot enclosure to the attic just to be safe. So sorry I can't give you better picture, it's dark and stuffy here.
We already got everything related to the enclosure covered, as this used to be my sulcata temporary enclosure. We got the hiding cave, saucer, bedding etc ready. Just missing the redfoot It's quite small (60x40cm), but this is supposed to be a temporary chamber while he's settling and we're ordering a bigger one.
However, I am still on edge about adding UVA lamps. Jakarta temperatures are 27-28'c at night and can reach 30-33'c at noon. Currently, the inside temperature is around 27,5-28'c with 80% humidity already, without the lamp (as you can see in the picture, I use my phone for flashlight). Most red foot keepers here put them outdoors or indoors without lamps, and the temperature matches redfoot needs.

 

[Tom]

However, I am still on edge about adding UVA lamps. Jakarta temperatures are 27-28'c at night and can reach 30-33'c at noon. Currently, the inside temperature is around 27,5-28'c with 80% humidity already, without the lamp (as you can see in the picture, I use my phone for flashlight). Most red foot keepers here put them outdoors or indoors without lamps, and the temperature matches redfoot needs.

No need for a basking lamp with those temps. and no need for a basking lamp in general with e RF. Some LED lighting on a timer would be good so that it looks like daytime in there.

You also need a UV source unless the tortoise will be getting regular sunning session outdoors.

 

[zovick]

Thank you SO MUCH @Alex and the Redfoot and @Tom . I'm really glad I posted before he arrived. I've been planning on quarantining him for a couple of days, but now I think I'll need to adjust it to make it more safer. I think first thing first, once he arrives, I'll check for any bumps/lesions. I thought I only needed to check the toe, but I'll check his whole body then. I also thought I could soak them at the same time from a separate tub. But I guess I'll soak them in different places and times just to be safe. I am still hoping that it is just a minor injury. I'll update you again once he arrives!

If I were you, I would very closely examine that tortoise BEFORE taking it from its current owner, and if it does have Austwickia chelonae, just don't take the animal and save yourself a lot of heartache and expense. You may not even be able to obtain the medications needed to treat the problem in your country. The disease is nearly always fatal even with treatment and is very contagious. There are only a handful of tortoises which have survived the disease, and the ones I know of never grew properly even though they survived. At a year or more old, they were still the size of one month old babies, etc.

 

[Ink]

You can always post a picture of the tortoise before you buy it to have expert opinions

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

I agree with Zovic.. I would even chance it. Id look for a reputable breeder ( there are plenty out there) Tortstork, southern reptiles, redfoot ranch to name a few. Good luck!

 

[zovick]

I agree with Zovic.. I would even chance it. Id look for a reputable breeder ( there are plenty out there) Tortstork, southern reptiles, redfoot ranch to name a few. Good luck!

Glad you agree with me; however, the OP is from Indonesia. Not sure that those breeders would ship there.

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

Glad you agree with me; however, the OP is from Indonesia. Not sure that those breeders would ship there.

Oops. There goes my ADHD again

 

[TammyJ]

With missing claws being a symptom of Austwickia, there is no way I would take a tortoise with missing claws unless I knew for certain how that happened, especially since I already have a healthy tortoise which I would be putting at risk.

 

[berrybon]

Hi everyone! I already got the red foot hatchling, and upon closer inspection, I didn’t found any blisters/mark/pustules. I check every nook and crannies. I believe the missing toes is caused by incorrect husbandry and over-crowded enclosure. I understand that I should’ve pick another hatchling, but seeing his condition and his previous setup, I feel like I have to do it. So far he is alert, active, and eats a lot.

We are still bio-quarantining those two, putting them on separate floor and they’ll be following different basking/soaking schedule.

I’m sorry to put everyone here on edge, I’m anxious as well. Thank you so much for your help! I’ll try to update you with the progress next month! @Alex and the Redfoot @Tom @zovick @Ink @TammyJ @Chubbs the tegu

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thanks for the update!
I don't see anything too concerning as well. But a few months of quarantine is still a good idea.

Keep us updated on how he's settling in. Don't forget, that his diet should include animal protein (mostly invertebrates at this point).

 

[TammyJ]

Good luck!