Should I Rescue?

[sst6843]

Hello! I'm a brand new member here and new to the tortoise community. I currently have a Bearded Dragon and a Ball Python in full bioactive enclosures, but no tortoise. I came to this forum and started doing some research on Sulcata Tortoises over the past couple of weeks because of a situation I'm in.

I have a family member who has had a Sulcata Tortoise since it was a little baby. I would be willing to guess its at least 10 or so years old based on timing alone. It has a lot of pyramiding, lives in a glass reptile tank maybe 60 to 100 gallons, has no hides, and is fed tortoise pellets. I haven't seen this family member in years, but my Dad passed suddenly a month ago and we have been back in touch. This family member does not want and never wanted this tortoise, he ended up taking care of because his daughter brought it home as a kid I believe. His daughter is an adult now, has moved out, has a toddler, and also doesn't want to take the tortoise home. Her and her partner do spend a LOT of time at his house helping him out though so they help care for it sometimes. My family member has some serious health issues and is afraid of handling the tortoise out of fear he could get sick so it never comes out of that enclosure unless someone else takes it in the yard once in a while. He showed me the tortoise after hearing about my reptiles and asked me if I wanted to take it home.



My gut response - YES! Let me help that baby! My husbands immediate response - NO! We have no space!

I believe my husband was thinking it would be another indoor enclosure like we have for the others, and he's right. I don't have rack space for an enclosure. But after doing research I see best case scenario would be an outdoor enclosure in the warm months and an indoor enclosure for the winter (we live in Central New York). I have a mudroom that isn't insulated but has an electric heater to keep it above freezing because there is plumbing (washer/dryer). I was thinking I could insulate the large windows and get radiant heat in there with proper lighting and basking lamps, all heating controlled by thermostat (probably the Reptistat 2 like I use for my other reptiles). It would only get the tortoise about 80 square feet when indoors, but over winter I'd get supplies to make it a large outdoor enclosure with a heated shelter so it could stay out as long as possible. My yard would need a bit to get ready, its very hilly in the open parts but I have a lot of flat space that's overgrown. We just removed 6 trees from that space and planned to clear it out later in the fall anyway to encourage ground coverage. We actually plan to plant clover as ground coverage, we already have the seeds. I've also started growing greens for my Bearded Dragon so I thought I could do the same for the tortoise as well as getting it timothy hay or orchard hay.

Knowing that I don't have the perfect setup for a Sulcata, should I try talking with my husband about it more and try to rescue the little guy? My goal would be constantly improving its home over time through continuous learning, like I do for my other reptiles. But for now, this is what I could possibly offer. I feel like its at the very least a huge improvement of what it has at the moment...but I don't want to cause more harm either. I'm not adverse to rehoming it in the future either if I get to the point where I can't provide enough, but I'm pretty stubborn with trying my absolute best first. I thought I would ask people with MUCH more experience, though, and see what you all think.

Side note just in case - I would need to have my husband's full ok for this. I'm not a fan of surprising my partner with pets/rescues, we find communication very important. Its our home and we're partners so we work together. I just want to know if I should even bother making a case or continuing to research tortoises if my idea isn't in the tortoises best interest to begin with.

Thank you for any time and response you can offer! I truly appreciate it!

 

[Megatron's Mom]

Welcome to the forum, I know it would be harder for you in NY, but where is this tortoise living right now? It is a very tough decision and others who are much more experience will come along soon enough.

 

[Ink]

@EppsDynasty should be able to give you advice about the needs of a sulcata. They have a rescue sanctuary.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Ink ... I was just responding and saw you posted.
Well someone needs to help this poor tort, if it's not you then who? We would help in any way we can. It is a BIG job to care for a Sulcata and you will always need to keep up on the latest ways to provide the best care. You are free to call us we run a Rescue called Joshua Tree Reptile Haven and have devoted our lives to helping these magnificent creatures. (760)499-4723. ANY questions you have ask, any concerns you have ask. It is clear that major changes are needed if this tort is to live any kind of life without suffering.

 

[wellington]

No, you should not rescue it except to ship it to someone that actually can rescue it. You do not have the proper space. He eventually will not be able to be carried inside.
This is already a very poor abused tortoise.
@EppsDynasty can possibly help and has the best home possible.

 

[sst6843]

Welcome to the forum, I know it would be harder for you in NY, but where is this tortoise living right now? It is a very tough decision and others who are much more experience will come along soon enough.

He is also in Central New York in a 60 to 100 gallon tank.

 

[wellington]

@Yvonne G may know of an actual rescue in NY that could help too.

 

[Ink]

@EppsDynasty thank you. I didn't want to assume that you would possibly take in the tortoise.

 

[wellington]

If you have a big yard and the means in money to build and afford to heat a large insulated shed and fence off a large area to dedicate just to the tortoise, then you would be able to actually rescue him. If not then he's going from one horrible situation to a bad situation.
Please help the tortoise though by finding an actual rescue that can give him the proper care.

 

[Tom]

Hello! I'm a brand new member here and new to the tortoise community. I currently have a Bearded Dragon and a Ball Python in full bioactive enclosures, but no tortoise. I came to this forum and started doing some research on Sulcata Tortoises over the past couple of weeks because of a situation I'm in.

I have a family member who has had a Sulcata Tortoise since it was a little baby. I would be willing to guess its at least 10 or so years old based on timing alone. It has a lot of pyramiding, lives in a glass reptile tank maybe 60 to 100 gallons, has no hides, and is fed tortoise pellets. I haven't seen this family member in years, but my Dad passed suddenly a month ago and we have been back in touch. This family member does not want and never wanted this tortoise, he ended up taking care of because his daughter brought it home as a kid I believe. His daughter is an adult now, has moved out, has a toddler, and also doesn't want to take the tortoise home. Her and her partner do spend a LOT of time at his house helping him out though so they help care for it sometimes. My family member has some serious health issues and is afraid of handling the tortoise out of fear he could get sick so it never comes out of that enclosure unless someone else takes it in the yard once in a while. He showed me the tortoise after hearing about my reptiles and asked me if I wanted to take it home.

View attachment 380391

My gut response - YES! Let me help that baby! My husbands immediate response - NO! We have no space!

I believe my husband was thinking it would be another indoor enclosure like we have for the others, and he's right. I don't have rack space for an enclosure. But after doing research I see best case scenario would be an outdoor enclosure in the warm months and an indoor enclosure for the winter (we live in Central New York). I have a mudroom that isn't insulated but has an electric heater to keep it above freezing because there is plumbing (washer/dryer). I was thinking I could insulate the large windows and get radiant heat in there with proper lighting and basking lamps, all heating controlled by thermostat (probably the Reptistat 2 like I use for my other reptiles). It would only get the tortoise about 80 square feet when indoors, but over winter I'd get supplies to make it a large outdoor enclosure with a heated shelter so it could stay out as long as possible. My yard would need a bit to get ready, its very hilly in the open parts but I have a lot of flat space that's overgrown. We just removed 6 trees from that space and planned to clear it out later in the fall anyway to encourage ground coverage. We actually plan to plant clover as ground coverage, we already have the seeds. I've also started growing greens for my Bearded Dragon so I thought I could do the same for the tortoise as well as getting it timothy hay or orchard hay.

Knowing that I don't have the perfect setup for a Sulcata, should I try talking with my husband about it more and try to rescue the little guy? My goal would be constantly improving its home over time through continuous learning, like I do for my other reptiles. But for now, this is what I could possibly offer. I feel like its at the very least a huge improvement of what it has at the moment...but I don't want to cause more harm either. I'm not adverse to rehoming it in the future either if I get to the point where I can't provide enough, but I'm pretty stubborn with trying my absolute best first. I thought I would ask people with MUCH more experience, though, and see what you all think.

Side note just in case - I would need to have my husband's full ok for this. I'm not a fan of surprising my partner with pets/rescues, we find communication very important. Its our home and we're partners so we work together. I just want to know if I should even bother making a case or continuing to research tortoises if my idea isn't in the tortoises best interest to begin with.

Thank you for any time and response you can offer! I truly appreciate it!

The tortoise definitely needs rescuing, but this is a giant tropical reptile that needs a huge warm space. 1000 sq.ft. is too small for one this size, and they shouldn't drop below 80 degees day or night. It's impractical, difficult and expensive to house this species in the frozen north. I don't think your mud room is large enough and I don't think it will be warm enough. And the tortoise will also destroy the walls in that room. Show this picture to your husband and see what he says.


If you could arrange to ship the tortoise south to a warm climate with someone who has a 50x50 foot pen with a heated night box, that would be best.

 

[sst6843]

@Ink ... I was just responding and saw you posted.
Well someone needs to help this poor tort, if it's not you then who? We would help in any way we can. It is a BIG job to care for a Sulcata and you will always need to keep up on the latest ways to provide the best care. You are free to call us we run a Rescue called Joshua Tree Reptile Haven and have devoted our lives to helping these magnificent creatures. (760)499-4723. ANY questions you have ask, any concerns you have ask. It is clear that major changes are needed if this tort is to live any kind of life without suffering.

Do you have any rough idea on how much space would be suitable during winter months? I've been trying to look at sheds (ours was recently destroyed), considering space in my garage (currently unheated and uninsulated), considering space in my basement (plastic vapor barrier over original dirt floor basement in 1800's house)... I just don't want to underprovide if I were to take this on. I've been searching and searching and can't find a good target to shoot for.

If you have a big yard and the means in money to build and afford to heat a large insulated shed and fence off a large area to dedicate just to the tortoise, then you would be able to actually rescue him. If not then he's going from one horrible situation to a bad situation.
Please help the tortoise though by finding an actual rescue that can give him the proper care.

That's my fear. I believe I have space and financial means, but I want to have people with experience let me know if I'm being unrealistic and unfair to the tortoise. This is what I'm working with outside. The shed in the picture has to go, it was destroyed by a tree.

 

[Ink]

@Tom @EppsDynasty

 

[Tom]

Do you have any rough idea on how much space would be suitable during winter months?

There are no "winter months" for this species. They are up, eating and very active all year. There is no winter in Subsaharan Africa. They need the same amount of space and the same warm temps all year long. Many people stuff them in sheds or basements, but this is not good for them and it usually doesn't last long.

Many people in your type of climate buy these tortoises and within a few years they finally realize that there is just no practical way to house this species with out a large outdoor pen and warm sunny days year round. We see it here on the forum all the time. I can't even count how many members started out with a young sulcata, took excellent care of it for a year or two, and then it goes quiet. And then within a few months we get the re-homing post. It's really very sad. If they had chosen a species more suited to their climate, they could have kept their beloved pet and enjoyed its company for decades.

 

[sst6843]

There are no "winter months" for this species. They are up, eating and very active all year. There is no winter in Subsaharan Africa. They need the same amount of space and the same warm temps all year long. Many people stuff them in sheds or basements, but this is not good for them and it usually doesn't last long.

Many people in your type of climate buy these tortoises and within a few years they finally realize that there is just no practical way to house this species with out a large outdoor pen and warm sunny days year round. We see it here on the forum all the time. I can't even count how many members started out with a young sulcata, took excellent care of it for a year or two, and then it goes quiet. And then within a few months we get the re-homing post. It's really very sad. If they had chosen a species more suited to their climate, they could have kept their beloved pet and enjoyed its company for decades.

That is the absolute best and most clear answer I’ve seen. The logic is so sound. I think I knew that was the best choice. Honestly, I think I just selfishly wanted to figure out a way to justify me keeping him…

Any tips for finding a rescue who would be able to help? I think I’d prefer something in the more appropriate warm climate to give it the best chance at a better life.

@EppsDynasty would you be able to take it if I could get it to you? Any tips for safest shipping method?

 

[Tom]

That is the absolute best and most clear answer I’ve seen. The logic is so sound. I think I knew that was the best choice. Honestly, I think I just selfishly wanted to figure out a way to justify me keeping him…

Any tips for finding a rescue who would be able to help? I think I’d prefer something in the more appropriate warm climate to give it the best chance at a better life.

@EppsDynasty would you be able to take it if I could get it to you? Any tips for safest shipping method?

It makes sense to me, but I've lost many friends over those statements. Most people just don't want to hear it, and they get real quiet when they eventually realize that no matter how much they want my words to be wrong, they are right.

I love sulcatas. They are a fantastic species. Super hardy and adaptable, Arguably the best personality of any tortoise there is, easy to feed, and super easy to care for in the right climate, but... there is always a but... they are the absolute wrong species for almost everyone because of their size and temperature requirements.

Good luck on your mission. @EppsDynasty lives near me, and the climate here suits sulcatas just fine with a heated shelter for nights and cold winter days. That would be my recommendation if you can figure out the transportation.

 

[wellington]

That is the absolute best and most clear answer I’ve seen. The logic is so sound. I think I knew that was the best choice. Honestly, I think I just selfishly wanted to figure out a way to justify me keeping him…

Any tips for finding a rescue who would be able to help? I think I’d prefer something in the more appropriate warm climate to give it the best chance at a better life.

@EppsDynasty would you be able to take it if I could get it to you? Any tips for safest shipping method?

EppsDynasty would be the very best place.
Although Toms answer is the best choice, it's not reality. People keep selling these tortoises all over and people will keep buying them.
There are many that house them in large sheds throughout winter, letting them out most days, even in the snow and they do just fine. Is it the very best situation, no, there really isn't a best place in the US except maybe Hawaii that is exactly like their home of origin.
Giving ways to house these guys in your type of area my opinion would be a better post as you aren't the first needing help housing a sulcata in the snow areas and you won't be the last.
But, because you aren't prepared, and really weren't planning and winter is around the corner, the best would be to ship him out to a rescue
In the mean time though, seeing he's not the size he should be for his age, you could get him and set him up outside for the day and bring him in at night to sleep. This would give him a better home until he can get shipped out. Just don't leave him with the people that did this.

 

[wellington]

It makes sense to me, but I've lost many friends over those statements. Most people just don't want to hear it, and they get real quiet when they eventually realize that no matter how much they want my words to be wrong, they are right.

I love sulcatas. They are a fantastic species. Super hardy and adaptable, Arguably the best personality of any tortoise there is, easy to feed, and super easy to care for in the right climate, but... there is always a but... they are the absolute wrong species for almost everyone because of their size and temperature requirements.

Good luck on your mission. @EppsDynasty lives near me, and the climate here suits sulcatas just fine with a heated shelter for nights and cold winter days. That would be my recommendation if you can figure out the transportation.

Agree, but they are always going to be sold in these areas. You can't get to the people before they buy so it would be more helpful to help them set the tortoise up correctly for those areas then to not.

 

[Tom]

Agree, but they are always going to be sold in these areas. You can't get to the people before they buy so it would be more helpful to help them set the tortoise up correctly for those areas then to not.

I agree except that there is no practical way to set them up correctly in that sort of climate. If a person wants to erect an insulated and heated 50x50 foot warehouse with floor heat and an automated back up generator, and banks of good lighting, it can certainly be done, but I've yet to run into anyone who has spent 100K+ on properly housing a $50 tortoise in the frozen north. Instead what we see, frequently, is people re-homing them when they finally realize they have bitten off more than they can chew.