So, really how intelligent?

[Dessy]

My sully has learned that if he scratches and bites enough at his enclosure in the morning, he will wake me up so i could bring him food. There was a point where he would wake me up at 7am every morning and i was miserable eventually he learned i was going to show up with food regardless so now he waits patently under his heat lamp

 

[turdle yerdle]

Tortoises are extremely intelligent, most people just can't see it. Every time I come home my tortoise waits on top of his log and sits there waiting for me at the time I come home. There is a potty trained tortoise and even one that comes when called

 

[dmmj]

I'm smarter than the average bear, no wait tortoise.

 

[turdle yerdle]

I'm smarter than the average bear, no wait tortoise.

lol

 

[Big Charlie]

Charlie can't figure out how to get into his night box if the door flaps are down, even though he comes out through them every morning.

 

[ColleenT]

my Box turtles have surprised me with their intelligence. It's not that i thought they were stupid, but i never really gave it much thought. They have much more personality than i ever expected and they do seem to learn and remember things.

 

[Bogie=babyDINO]

Charlie can't figure out how to get into his night box if the door flaps are down, even though he comes out through them every morning.

Hahaha this made me crack up!

 

[Cheryl Hills]

Alright heres my take. They are pretty brilliant, but not necessarily in a smart way... but heck maybe its just RTs I speak for. My Nank is an absolute expert at getting to what he wants even if made impossible. We just built him a new enclosure, there a loft above the built in house that I keep 2 boxes of growing weeds for him... but he decided from the start he wanted to be up there. Caught him right away almost up in the plants, moved the boxes to block his way. Day 2 (yesterday while I was at work) he pushed the boxes off the loft and climbed up, flipping himself in the process. Last night, added the little extension on top to add hight and hopefully stop him... he IMMEDIATELY saw this as a challenge and went for it while my dad was still there (see below picture).
They're super smart when it comes to problem solving, not so smart when it comes to well being, because he ended up almost flipping again... literally for some dirt because no plant is growing yet!

Must be the Russian in him!

 

[TerraTheRussian]

That is so funny! My Russian can really climb.

 

[Rue]

Has anyone tried teaching some basic tricks, or foraging tests? They're food motivated - it shouldn't be that hard to set something up - either more seriously or just for the fun of it.

I was wondering if I could teach mine to shake a foot...but I'm too lazy to actually try to teach it properly...lol.

 

[JoesMum]

Has anyone tried teaching some basic tricks, or foraging tests? They're food motivated - it shouldn't be that hard to set something up - either more seriously or just for the fun of it.

I was wondering if I could teach mine to shake a foot...but I'm too lazy to actually try to teach it properly...lol.

I very much doubt they can be taught tricks as you put it.

Running to you in the hope of getting a strawberry or something else yummy isn't really training.

 

[Rue]

I dunno. A 'trick' is just conditioning. Running to you for a strawberry is conditioning. It stands to reason you could condition for something a little more complicated...but just how complicated?

 

[JoesMum]

I dunno. A 'trick' is just conditioning. Running to you for a strawberry is conditioning. It stands to reason you could condition for something a little more complicated...but just how complicated?

Joe doesn't do complicated. After 46 years of owning him he still hasn't worked out that his head fitting through a gap doesn't mean his shell can follow. It also doesn't occur to him to go further along to where there's a gap to fit through.

I don't think there's trick-trainable intelligence there

 

[Big Charlie]

Has anyone tried teaching some basic tricks, or foraging tests? They're food motivated - it shouldn't be that hard to set something up - either more seriously or just for the fun of it.

I was wondering if I could teach mine to shake a foot...but I'm too lazy to actually try to teach it properly...lol.

I'm too lazy to train an animal. Even my dog didn't learn a lot of tricks. I don't think Charlie is smart enough to learn much. He has other redeeming qualities. I love that video of the box turtle shaking hands and playing dead.

 

[WithLisa]

My torts are quick learners!
Because it was sunny and dry I started to give the enclosure a warm shower with a watering can before I scatter some weeds. Now after three days they are already going bonkers when they feel the warm rain, rushing out of their hides, searching for the food.

Since a month or so I'm trying to teach my cat to get off my lap when I clap my hands, so I can go feed him - he doesn't get it at all.

 

[Pearly]

My torts are quick learners!
Because it was sunny and dry I started to give the enclosure a warm shower with a watering can before I scatter some weeds. Now after three days they are already going bonkers when they feel the warm rain, rushing out of their hides, searching for the food.

Since a month or so I'm trying to teach my cat to get off my lap when I clap my hands, so I can go feed him - he doesn't get it at all.

Hahaha! I don't know if your cat "doesn't get it" I've had multiple cats for many years and yes, their personalities and level of readiness to learn varies but all have one thing in common: they ALL DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO and WHEN they want to do it. As for torts... They have teeny tiny brains. My babies' brain size must be comparable to my pinky fingernail, still I think there's something there! They look me in the eye (seriously! Eye contact!!!) one of them was missing for 4 weeks during coldest month in Texas, and survived! I suspect that me leaving out his favorite food, water and 200watts worth of heat over pile of vegetation that I'd left where I last saw him, had probably something to do with his survival, but having no prior experience with reptiles I worried that he may be just "walking for miles until he gets dehydrated or freezes to death"... So mine (baby Tucker) was smart enough to use the resources I was making available for him... Other than that I don't really have other stories of my tort intelligence. Just yet! Mine are still babies. And I absolutely LOVE that tort doing tricks video!

 

[KatyshaB]

My tortoise, Billy has been in hibernation since the start of December and I'm missing him dreadfully. (When do I take him out?) I have been thinking a lot and I just wondered, how clever are they really? Do they have any feelings ( apart from fear and pleasure obviously.) Please explain your answers.Tortoises are creatures of precaution and safety. (No wonder they live so long.) My tortoise recoils when I do movements that are to quick. He seems excited when I give him treats. He gets bored when I take things out of his cage to wash and he has nothing to do. I have seen curiousity, terror, happiness, pleasure, excitement and understanding in him. What do you think on the subject and have you seen your tortoise doing anything of the sort?

When you say 'intelligent' you need to be more specific. Tortoises, are brilliant. Or what you could call 'brilliant.' now, from what I know there are two different types of being brilliant when it comes to animals. (There may be more, if you think there is another type, I would love to join that conversation.) There is brilliant as in adaptability, knowledge of body and functions (mostly), keen senses, figuring out (simple for the most part) problems, good with the skills they evolved to had (in this case good climbing skills, hard shell, instinct, smell, digging ability). Then yes, they are quite intelligent. More than most people give them credit for.

And there is the more 'human' type of intelligent. Such as Showing affection and memory, creating bonds with others same species or not, Being able to act selfless For another's well-being (knowingly). 'Showing signs of emotion, showing signs of agency (you need agency to be able to have emotion.) Able to have a different and distinct personality. And able to think not as robots, but as a human. Then, to fully answer this question you need to answer the question 'do they have agency?' for you need agency to show emotion and act human (except for the personality one, but we will get there later). Now, I study philosophy, and what I have realized is that we have NO idea about what agency is, we have some ideas, some are very good and some are not, but nobody is sure. And I think we can not even BEGIN to ask the question "Do reptiles have emotions" if we don't even know what agency is. That would just be making assumptions with no data. So when (if) we know for sure what agency is, then I have decided to try to try to discover whether or not they do have emotions. (If I ever get that smart) And I think it is foolish to assume they don't have emotions. For that is just a full out assumption, with no data to help it. (If you disagree on what I am saying, go ahead and contact me privately, so that this chatroom doesn't turn into a philosophical debate). So for that part, nobody knows.

As I said before, the one thing that I put down in that list is the 'Personality' one. For I do not think you need agency to have different personalities, for I have two tortoises with two COMPLETELY different personalities, one is Calm, Willing, Excited, Tame, Cowardly (When I mean cowardly I really mean non-dominant). And the other is Grumpy, aggressive (towards same kind), Dominant, Hard, Picky, Pushy, Manipulative. Now, many people could argue that they where both different because of the Conditions they where raised in. But, I do not find this to be true, @Tom said that he had raised some Russian babies, that all had different personalities, and where all raised the same way. So, it has something to do with genetics, and I also think that because of this, some tortoises are more brilliant then others. For some can't climb as well, others can't see, or smell, and some don't like to dig, some are picky. So, I think saying that reptiles are like the Borg (from star trek, if you don't know what it is google it). For they clearly are not, and they all have different personalities.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Has anyone tried teaching some basic tricks, or foraging tests? They're food motivated - it shouldn't be that hard to set something up - either more seriously or just for the fun of it.

I was wondering if I could teach mine to shake a foot...but I'm too lazy to actually try to teach it properly...lol.

Post #4 in this thread is a link towards answering your question.

Early cognitive studies with chelonians showed they would not step off a visual cliff, and would regularly learn a maze with food available as a reward. Though they would not be faster per episode as a rat, they could learn a maze in fewer trials than rats.

Long considered a trait, now sorted out by neuroscience, all animals have a "GPS" and they map their area of habitat with a temporal sense added in. "go here this time of year and that tree will shed things to eat" kind of space time ability to remember a food source and be able to reliably find it.

Play is often reasoned a demonstration of intelligence and a few species have displayed what could be considered play behavior.

All kind of things if you step on the wild side and use google scholar.

 

[jockma]

Not really a trick, just an example of how conditioning can get pretty weird or elaborate for them.

I handfed strawberries (and only strawberries, I didn't handfeed anything else) for about 1 1/2 years. Mind you, he's been with me for almost 4 years so the handfeeding of strawberries was quite a while ago. I only handfed him while he was on my lap. I sit with him when he eats most days and if he's not eating strawberries he'll just eat as much as he wants and then he'll walk away. If I'm feeding strawberries he'll climb in my lap (I guess to get more strawberries?)

Strawberries are my go-to fruit when I'm feeding fruits (at least half the time those are the fruit I feed), so this happens quite often. Only with strawberries. Not mango or any other fruit I feed.

What a weirdo.

 

[Neal]

My tortoise, Billy has been in hibernation since the start of December and I'm missing him dreadfully. (When do I take him out?) I have been thinking a lot and I just wondered, how clever are they really? Do they have any feelings ( apart from fear and pleasure obviously.) Please explain your answers.Tortoises are creatures of precaution and safety. (No wonder they live so long.) My tortoise recoils when I do movements that are to quick. He seems excited when I give him treats. He gets bored when I take things out of his cage to wash and he has nothing to do. I have seen curiousity, terror, happiness, pleasure, excitement and understanding in him. What do you think on the subject and have you seen your tortoise doing anything of the sort?

I don't know about feelings, but they do have some intelligence. Enough to develop routines, remember where the food is, remember who the food comes from...that type of thing.

I recently squired a large female leopard tortoise. I have to pick her up a certain way because she's so large and she'll usually tuck inside her shell when I get ready to pick her up. She's figured out that if she rubs her forearms against the top of her shell when she's tucked in, she'll push my fingers off and I'll let go. Kind of hard to explain, but it's such a weird behavior I have to think that it was learned behavior.