Stone stuck, help!

[Moozillion]

OK; I like being ready for a problem should it arise; but I can only imagine getting a "pocket rocket" and try to explain" its for my tortoise".

 

[Taco*mom]

Was it determined if these are urates or actual stones he has swallowed? When mine defecates it looses from 3-6 grams in weight. So with yours; this kind of weight loss makes me think he probably passed one of the stones. Hopefully the largest one which was acting as a plug and now the rest will pass. If not the loss of the one stone might allow a skilled herp vet to go in and break them up; if they do not start passing on their own. I'd continue hydration soaks and and lots of leafy greens with water sprayed on them.' or mineral oil. This is one of those times that lettuce can be added to the feed; being its mostly water. You mentioned a possible infection; or was it just swollen tissue from exertion, If you have an infection you might want to set up a hospital tank;with higher temps and humidity; as well as no substrate that could aggravate the infection. If you use paper towels; you will be able to determine if he's urinating . If is feeding and passing stools; and behavior remains the same; I would do what I could to avoid the surgical; approach. Go back in a few days and have another xray to see if there has been any change.

E is housed indoor. I have been using coco coir and lately I have experimented using rubber mat on top of my very moist coir just for the lesser mess. So NO chance of E swallowed ANY stones. Before using the coir, I washed the coir (put them in a large cloth bag, submerged them in water and step and step and step on them). I did this to squeze the stain out of them so it won't stain my torts.. Then I soaked the coir in a bucket, thus leaving the stones under the water and pick up only the moving coir in the water. Then, I put the coir in a cloth bag and boil them. Yes, I must be crazy!

E has been spending his day yesterday one hour in warm water soak, then one or one and half hour on dry land, then back to warm water he goes. A bit longer on dry land when it's time to put his antibiotics on. He has been eating, though less than normal, the oil coated leaves. Took a bite or two of aloe vera, not much to make me happy. No stones so far.

I really wasn't happy with the vet yesterday. She pried E's anus open with a 5mm tweezers trying to get the stone out PRIOR to give it an xray. She failed, of course. She only pushed the stone back into E. I had to suggest her to do an xray then maybe continue what she did. You know, at least get a picture of how big of a stone she was dealing with. Then she took it like it was her idea. I was so upset yesterday I can barely talk about it.

After what she did, the prolapse was pushed back inside. But E sometimes had some slimey smelly discharge with a little bit of normal urate in it. He still took small walk inside his enclosure then came back to his hide and rest.

 

[Taco*mom]

The x-rays are very poor quality. It is very difficult to determine the location of the stones/rocks. They look very large to be bladder stones at such a young age. Were there rocks in the enclosure for the tortoise to eat? If housed indoors, then they may likely be bladder stones. There was a paper published some time ago in the UK, where they taped a Vibrator (pocket rocket) to the plastron to simulate vibration and possibly break up the stones. Results were mixed but worth a try. Some better xrays may be of value.

Thanks @deadheadvet. I will look into finding stuff that similar to this pocket rocket. You just confirmed how very not qualified my local vet is. Poor xray too. Shame on them. Right now I am hoping those are just hardened poop and not stones. Hoping for a better day today.

 

[Taco*mom]

Picture of the enclosure

 

[Yvonne G]

oooboy! I'd sure be afraid of that blanket catching fire over the hot lights. Just curious why you don't use substrate?

 

[eric joranson]

oooboy! I'd sure be afraid of that blanket catching fire over the hot lights. Just curious why you don't use substrate?

I think this is just a her hospital set up....in her last post she mentions using coir. I am too shy to go into detail about "pocket rocket".....so maybe in a private message someone could explain it to her.....and I agree with blanket; unless it was one of those mylar space blankets.

 

[eric joranson]

Thanks @deadheadvet. I will look into finding stuff that similar to this pocket rocket. You just confirmed how very not qualified my local vet is. Poor xray too. Shame on them. Right now I am hoping those are just hardened poop and not stones. Hoping for a better day today.

It would not be "poop"; but a urate concentration; a by product of protein metabolism; that is released in the urine. Although sometimes it will appear on the fecal material, When the tortoise is not properly hydrated; it builds and begins to harden into a stone like discharge. When normal its more of a toothpaste consistency; and even thinner. Its when it becomes granular; it starts to become a problem. So keep up the hydration therapy; and watery greens with mineral water. Check to make sure it doesn't prolapse again. Eating is good; even if reduced; and still moving around; is also good. Once you are sure its not going to prolapse again; I would set up enclosure with coir substrate; and keep it enclosed; so humidity levels can be at 80%. And take Yvonne's warning about blanket over lights...dangerous fire hazard. And don't be too hard on vet; there are not that many worldwide that have alot of experience with tortoises; and alot of them are working with outdated information. Hope your tomorrow is a better day; and please keep us all posted on what happens.

 

[Taco*mom]

oooboy! I'd sure be afraid of that blanket catching fire over the hot lights. Just curious why you don't use substrate?

Yvonne, do you remember my older post? That the coir keeps getting into the albino' eyes? The coir is underneath the mat. I can only get the humidity to 78 with the mat on thr coir. Well, good enough for me.

I give about 2 inches gap between the lamp and the blanket. So far there has been no accidents. I keep thinking how to make it better though. Maybe I should switch to plastic cover.

 

[Taco*mom]

I think this is just a her hospital set up....in her last post she mentions using coir. I am too shy to go into detail about "pocket rocket".....so maybe in a private message someone could explain it to her.....and I agree with blanket; unless it was one of those mylar space blankets.

Your post is enough to make me realize what pocket rocket is. So pleaseee, no need anybody pm me explaining it

 

[Stuart S.]

Well that escalated quickly

 

[Taco*mom]

Heyy guysss,

Great news! As E was having his outdoor time this afternoon, he was straining and straining. And voilaaaa.

 

[Taco*mom]

Many thanks for all the support and kind words. You guys rock!

 

[eric joranson]

Heyy guysss,

Great news! As E was having his outdoor time this afternoon, he was straining and straining. And voilaaaa.

excellent; but please keep the hydration routine going as there are probably more that needs to flush out

 

[Taco*mom]

excellent; but please keep the hydration routine going as there are probably more that needs to flush out

That's the plan!
I'm afraid there are still more stones or hardened poop inside. Btw, all my torts are soaked twice daily. So I plan to keep E a lot more in a the water, like these past 2 days, for about a week or so.

Like Tom has hinted, they all came from a breeder who raised them really dry. For those who are interested, you can check my previous thread. Beware of the dry method. It kills!

 

[eric joranson]

That's the plan!
I'm afraid there are still more stones or hardened poop inside. Btw, all my torts are soaked twice daily. So I plan to keep E a lot more in a the water, like these past 2 days, for about a week or so.

Like Tom has hinted, they all came from a breeder who raised them really dry. For those who are interested, you can check my previous thread. Beware of the dry method. It kills!

do not limit yourself to just one week....I would continue to administer additional soaks and hydration until any urates that do come out are creamy or none at all.

 

[Bee62]

I am really happy to read that the stone came out ! What a luck for the little tort and you !

"That`s a weight of my mind" .... Do you know that saying ?
In Germany we say: A stone falls from my heart.
That was the stone of your tort !

Sabine

 

[Yvonne G]

Whew! What a relief. I'm so glad he was able to pass the stone. From now on I would spritz his food with water and occasionally give him a treat of something wet like watermelon, cucumber, etc.

 

[Stuart S.]

What great news! Keep him hyrated!! Congratulations!

 

[robopetz]

So glad to hear!!!! I bet that was a big relief for E as well. You're a good mama! Keep us posted.

 

[Taco*mom]

Hey guys,

Just want to give an update on E.. Well, perseverance pays off. E has gotten more stones out. Total of 6! I am soo proud of him. He keeps eating well and moving. Soaking was still the same as described before and his food are still lubricated with mineral oil. I shall let the pictures talk for themselves.