Sulcata in Cold Climate (Northeastern US)

[NokaNoka]

I decided to start yet another thread, because I think this deserves a topic all its own.

@Tom mentioned in my other thread (as have others) that it is possible to keep a Sulcata in a Northeast climate, but it takes time, effort, and money.

We live in a climate with an average winter low of 16*F. Jan is our coldest month, on average. In the summer, our average high is 82*F.

We live in an attic apartment. We have a large yard, but as we rent, I can't see being allowed to do much more than add one of those 92-cubic feet Rubbermaid sheds. Will we be living here forever? Absolutely not. But it can still be a few years yet (2 at the minimum, and hoping for 5 at the maximum). Right now, they're living in a 40-gallon breeder, which obviously needs to be upgraded ASAP. I haven't officially measured them, but I'd say both are a minimum of 4.5" long at this point. Not sure on weight yet.

Is a properly insulated and heated Rubbermaid shed a good outdoor winter housing option in such temps? This wouldn't be until at least next winter, but I need to get planning to purchase (or build). I've been looking at different winter outside housing enclosures, and I can't figure out what size ours would need to be. Is it possible to house them outside without spending thousands?

Tom also mentioned separation of the pair -- what would this look like in an outdoor enclosure?

What size enclosure should I be building for them now? Links to past threads would be great, too.

I really appreciate all of the help and patience I've gotten. We didn't have much time to prepare for them, as we weren't even aware they were tortoises. I'm stressing about all of this and have been up all night reading all that I can on them. I know there are thousands of threads that can probably answer my questions, but my head is spinning and I'm just sick to my stomach over all of this.

 

[Yvonne G]

A link to the thread where Elizabeth describes getting the tortoises:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/what-kind-of-tortoises-are-these.112856/#post-1048948

 

[Tom]

The first thing NokaNoka is to relax. Tortoise keeping should be fun, enjoyable and relaxing. I know you were thrown into this unexpectedly, but everything will work out one way or another.

Personally I would not keep sulcatas in a shed over winter. I would not keep them at all if I lived in an apartment or in a cold climate like yours. That, however, is just personal preference. Lots of people do it and are successful at it. I would prefer they advise you about the specifics of keeping a sulcata in a climate like that, as I am ignorant and have no experience with it.

For your current indoor enclosures, it is fairly easy to get a 4x8' sheet of plywood and put some walls on it. A coat of primer and paint will protect the wood from the damp substrate. Make two of these and the heating elements of each of them will probably warm up the whole room. You might need a space heater for the whole room too since your apt. is so cold. Alternatively, you can build two 4x8' closed chambers, like in the thread I linked for you, and those will be much easier to heat and humidify, but more involved and expensive to buy and build.

Keeping a sulcata is somewhat like keeping a large goat, pot bellied pig or mini-horse. They need a lot of space to move and some serious resources devoted to them. Easy on a ranch in a warm climate, very difficult in an apartment in a cold climate. Unlike the aforementioned mammals, they also have the requirement of needing to be kept warm all the time, which is yet another issue to consider. Its not too hard to do with a smaller younger sulcata, but once they start getting past 8" or so, it can become a real problem. When raised properly they can reach 8" in their first year. Yours are small, but with proper care, they are going to start growing at a surprisingly rapid rate. I have a four year old female that is 20" and 50 pounds. She, of course, has been living outside here full time for the last 3 years or so.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if placing these tortoises with someone who has a better climate and more space is what you decide to do, no one will think less of you. Everyone here just wants what is best for the tortoises. If you are able to give them that, then I think staying with you would be great.

 

[Cfr200]

I live in Missouri, not as cold as where you live but, still pretty cold. I currently have 2, 60lbs 5 year olds. They spend the winter in a shed, on all but the coldest days one goes for a walk outside. If they do not get to go out they tear up the doors ripping out all the insulation. So, I open the door even on the coldest of days Fred has gone out in weather as cold as single digits just for a quick lap around the yard. It was not until they weighed about 15lbs that they moved outside full time. Before this they would spend days outside when it was over 65 degrees. I would bring them inside for the night and during the winter. My winter here does not last as long as yours. Our average high temperature this time is 51. They are a lot more work when you have to worry about keeping them warm. I have to worry for about 2 months, when they get bigger it will be harder

 

[Odin's Gma]

I'm in Minnesota and was thrown into the whole tortoise thing too (my son and his girlfriend bought his last summer and he is currently living with us)
and I too was studying like mad to try and make sure we were giving him proper care.
Right now he is 9 months old and he is small, he was started dry with the breeder and things were far from perfect for the first couple of months here. His indoor place is pretty rudimentary (and very inexpensive-salvage wood from old shelves) and I know we will be lucky if it lasts him a second winter, you can see it here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/indoor-enclosure-all-input-welcome.108222/

Space wasn't our concern, we have a good sized yard that he can completely take over when the time comes, but my current concern was feeding him well indoors when he can't be outside, so I got creative with indoor gardening and removable grazing beds for his enclosure, seen here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/gmas-indoor-winter-gardening-and-sulcata-brag-thread.112815/

So far it's been fantastic, he is happy and healthy and growing, and yours will too! Just breathe. We may have to do things differently in our climates, but it can be done.

 

[NokaNoka]

I appreciate the replies.

We have put them up for adoption, but if no one is available (it would need to be local so they can pick them up, or they'd have to pay for shipping), we may be keeping them for awhile longer.

We have a nice sized yard, but we rent from my sister and her husband. They'd be fine with an enclosure in their backyard, but I'm not sure how the electricity thing would work (running an extension cord, etc.).

Right now, I'm worried about keeping them happy, healthy, and warm. Before coming here, they lived on Romaine only (with occasional calcium supplementation).

The bigger tort keeps climbing onto the smaller one, and I'm worried about injuries, so I might move the smaller one to a tote for now. Can an incandescent light provide the same amount of heat as an red heat lamp?

 

[Tom]

The bigger tort keeps climbing onto the smaller one, and I'm worried about injuries, so I might move the smaller one to a tote for now. Can an incandescent light provide the same amount of heat as an red heat lamp?

You NEED to separate them right now.

Yes the regular incandescent will provide the same amount of heat as a red bulb, and red bulbs should never be used. Not day or night.

 

[NokaNoka]

You NEED to separate them right now.

Yes the regular incandescent will provide the same amount of heat as a red bulb, and red bulbs should never be used. Not day or night.

How much wattage?

 

[Tom]

How much wattage?

Only your thermometer can answer that. It depends on many factors including the size and type of enclosure, fixture, room temp, etc...

You said your room is 61 degrees in a previous thread, so I would start with a 160 watt power sun on a timer for 12-13 hours a day. Put this bulb over to one side to create a gradient where one side is warmer than the other. Be prepared to raise or lower the fixture and bulb to get the coerrect basking temperature under the bulb.

At the same time you will need some way to maintain the ambient temperature at 75-80 in the rest of the enclosure and over night when the light is off. This is most easily done with a ceramic heating element or two set on a thermostat. The thermostat will turn the heat on or off as needed depending on the temperature where the probe sits.

 

[NokaNoka]

Repost from adoption thread:

Fantastic news!

I found a few tort rescues in the area and just spoke with the owner of one whose been rehabbing torts for over 20 years. He'll be picking them up on Sunday!

They house the torts in the proper facilities until they're adopted out. I'm so happy for my two little fellas!

 

[Prairie Mom]

I'm really proud of the responsible way you came to this decision. I think the climate issue is less important than the stability and support needed for keeping these animals. I'm hoping that your tortoises will have a good life ahead of them Good job, NokaNoka!!

 

[NokaNoka]

I'm really proud of the responsible way you came to this decision. I think the climate issue is less important than the stability and support needed for keeping these animals. I'm hoping that your tortoises will have a good life ahead of them Good job, NokaNoka!!

Thank you, Prairie Mom. I really appreciate all of the support I've received while coming to this decision.

Years from now, when we're living in a more stable situation and when we can plan extensively, I'd love to rescue a tortoise and give it the home it deserves.

 

[Tgordon600]

Hello, I am looking for a sulacta tortoise that is already partly out of adolescence. I have had experience with sulactas and I have a strong love for them. I would like one that spans from 8-10 inches in diameter. I live in Louisiana. And am willing to pay shipping or anything else. I need a new sully! If you are still interested in selling yours, please contact me @ 318-469-7799