Sulcata substrate, my answer

[bruce1234]

Hi, my name is Bruce not new to the forum, however i just registered to it. In reference to your sulcata, I owned a sulcata for approximately 7 years, here is my experience with substrate, My sulata named Hercules ,lived on my apartment floor for 7 years, no substrate, his substrate was a beautiful wood floor, he was 10lb when I bought him, he grew into a beautiful sulcata tortoise at 50lbs (so much for substrate). Now I had to find someone who can care for him ,he was just to big.
I found a person who provided a sanctuary for tortoises, her name is Lori Green, some people in the forum should know who she is. I remember her telling me she never saw a captive sulcata in such beautiful condition since she has been in the rescue /sanctuary field.

Moving foward 25 years later I bought a hermann's tortoise, his name is Herman, he has been with me for 2 years, he has a 36x36 enclosure. My SUBSTRATE was coconut core, 2 inches deep, he loved to dig as Hermanns do, one day he stopped eating, lethargic, eyes shut, everyone knows these kinds of signs. I went to a reptile vet in long Island New York, took a poop sample with me. The vet examined him and when she came back into the room I was in, she asked me what kind of substrate are you using, I told her her coco core 2 inches deep, Her first answer was to throw it all OUT. She proceeded to tell me, no more substrate of any kind!! Herman's diagnoses was worms, they gave me medication, I used for 2 weeks, she told me clean his enclosure put down paper towel or wee wee pads or anything that is not loose SUBSTRATE, it is not good for a tortoise to have a deep substrate!! That was over a year ago, I now have a coco core compressed mat that Herman has no issues with, he is a beautiful thriving captive tortoise in my same apartment, healthy as can be, does not miss his digging. That veterinarian definitely new what she was talking about!!

Hope this has been helpful,
Best to all of you at the forum,

Bruce, proud owner of my Hermanns Tortoise.

 

[Tom]

Hi, my name is Bruce not new to the forum, however i just registered to it. In reference to your sulcata, I owned a sulcata for approximately 7 years, here is my experience with substrate, My sulata named Hercules ,lived on my apartment floor for 7 years, no substrate, his substrate was a beautiful wood floor, he was 10lb when I bought him, he grew into a beautiful sulcata tortoise at 50lbs (so much for substrate). Now I had to find someone who can care for him ,he was just to big.
I found a person who provided a sanctuary for tortoises, her name is Lori Green, some people in the forum should know who she is. I remember her telling me she never saw a captive sulcata in such beautiful condition since she has been in the rescue /sanctuary field.

Moving foward 25 years later I bought a hermann's tortoise, his name is Herman, he has been with me for 2 years, he has a 36x36 enclosure. My SUBSTRATE was coconut core, 2 inches deep, he loved to dig as Hermanns do, one day he stopped eating, lethargic, eyes shut, everyone knows these kinds of signs. I went to a reptile vet in long Island New York, took a poop sample with me. The vet examined him and when she came back into the room I was in, she asked me what kind of substrate are you using, I told her her coco core 2 inches deep, Her first answer was to throw it all OUT. She proceeded to tell me, no more substrate of any kind!! Herman's diagnoses was worms, they gave me medication, I used for 2 weeks, she told me clean his enclosure put down paper towel or wee wee pads or anything that is not loose SUBSTRATE, it is not good for a tortoise to have a deep substrate!! That was over a year ago, I now have a coco core compressed mat that Herman has no issues with, he is a beautiful thriving captive tortoise in my same apartment, healthy as can be, does not miss his digging. That veterinarian definitely new what she was talking about!!

Hope this has been helpful,
Best to all of you at the forum,

Bruce, proud owner of my Hermanns Tortoise.

Bruce,
Your veterinarian, like so many other veterinarians, is wrong. They learn tortoise care from the same wrong sources that everyone else learns tortoise care from. I think most of them mean well, but they are ignorant about this subject, just as I am ignorant of surgical procedures and other such things that they are well studied and educated on. I don't say this lightly. I know and work with several experienced reptile vets, and lots of other vets too. I've been working with animals professionally since the 80s, all sorts of animals, and this has kept me in contact with many many vets over all those years.

There are lots of people like me all over the world that have been keeping and raising, breeding and hatching, dozens or hundreds of tortoises for dozens of years. Some of us have been experimenting over the years with different ways of feeding, housing, and caring for tortoises, and we've discovered a lot along the way about what works, what doesn't work, and why. No one knows everything, and I will continue actively trying to learn until the day I die, but there are some things I/we know to be true based on extensive first hand experience.

 

[bruce1234]

Bruce,
Your veterinarian, like so many other veterinarians, is wrong. They learn tortoise care from the same wrong sources that everyone else learns tortoise care from. I think most of them mean well, but they are ignorant about this subject, just as I am ignorant of surgical procedures and other such things that they are well studied and educated on. I don't say this lightly. I know and work with several experienced reptile vets, and lots of other vets too. I've been working with animals professionally since the 80s, all sorts of animals, and this has kept me in contact with many many vets over all those years.

There are lots of people like me all over the world that have been keeping and raising, breeding and hatching, dozens or hundreds of tortoises for dozens of years. Some of us have been experimenting over the years with different ways of feeding, housing, and caring for tortoises, and we've discovered a lot along the way about what works, what doesn't work, and why. No one knows everything, and I will continue actively trying to learn until the day I die, but there are some things I/we know to be true based on extensive first hand experience.

Understood and respected, however this is my experience with my tortoises again only two, not nearly the knowledge that you and other keepers have. In my life I have learned that when a situation arises you take the action needed and i did. Having applied to what was told to me by a reptile veterinarian worked and worked well to this day. Logic to me has no argument. I truly appreciate your reply.

All the best to you Tom,

Bruce