Swollen eyes

[Travick]

Hi there,
I have a tortoise for about 1 month now, having problems with it's swollen eyes. Please see photo attached.
I red guide for beginners and some similar topics here, so I could make following steps:
I exchanged spot lamp 11 days ago,
turned off coiled UVB lamp 6 days ago,
today used only mineral water (with less chlorine).
keepin 70% in the middle of the terrarium for last 13 days.
- soaked almost every day for 15-30 minutes, last 9 days with chamoline, squash or smahed carrot.
Still have eyes on the photo.
When active often try to escape and scratch on dirty wall glass, that might be a problem too.
Any idea what could be next steps?

 

[Bee62]

Hi Travick and welcome to the forum.
Your tort baby looks sick. How are your temps, night and day, basking spot ?
Can you please upload some more pics of your tort and the enclosure ? Often pictures can say more than 1000 words.
Is your baby still eating and active ?

 

[Yvonne G]

If it was the compact fluorescent bulb it will take about 2 weeks for the pain and swelling to go away.

If it is because of a lack of vitamin A, if you're real good about soaking in strained carrot/water, for at least a half hour daily, it will take about 3 days.

 

[Travick]

Thank you for your replies and welcoming!
I attached pic about closure. It was like 90-95 F under the basking sport, but tort stayed around there all day so I placed there a little bit stronger bulb, now it is up to 108 F on basking spot. In the middle of the terrarium it is 75 F and keeping humidity at 70%. Other end around 70 F (same as the room temp). This is from 7am to 9pm. Otherwise 70 F everywhere. Tort is eating and mostly active, just those eyes sometimes seems to be very very painful and disabling. I definitely won't use that coil lamp anymore an soak in carrot also this week, last week it was 3x30min and 1x10min. Should I soak for 30 mins even if try to escape?

 

[Markw84]

That uvb bulb is way too close. It looks just a few inches above tortoise level. That certainly could be your problem!!

 

[Travick]

Hi there, his swollen eyes didn't get much better, but things went worse, he lost weight from 32 grams rapidly to only 18 now! :-(
He's not moving too much, not interested in food for 2 weeks now. We were at vet with him on 13th March, seemingly not so professional but could tell about Calcium / Fluorid ratios and gave him some vitamines and fluid.
Three days later I found some worm in his place, which looked like some small tapeworm. We alerted and went to local specialist on emergency visit. Vet told us that this kind of worm is normal on tortoise place and injected him fluid. After that he ate collected mixed grasses for couple of days, because we drip few strawberry drops on them as vet suggested . But now lost interest even in those! After long bathes he just go near the spot lamp no matter what and stay there moving a little bit every while. He doesn't have any other symptoms like bubbles coming from his nose.
My main question is: How much more of weight it can loose? 18/32 means he's at 56%! We have regular appointment on Tuesday. Should I call vet for emergency visit nearer than Tuesday? I'm not sure he can do it until that... :-( The second concerns was that the spot temp was 32°C so I moved now spot lamp closer and now it is 42°C there. Just to check what will happens: will he move from his favourite place? It seems he doesn't move anywhere. Stay on the same spot. Should I move spot lamp back? I don't want to dehydrate him. I was thinking that he will move from there, but he is all the time on the same place. Very depressing.

 

[Bee62]

Hi, your news are really very depressing. From what you tell I don`t know if your tort baby will overlive.
Nobody could tell how long he can go on without food and loosing weight. 18 gr. is not much left.
When you go to a VET: Please no more vitamin and calcium shots.
They will do more harm than good just now.
Only a deworming med he should get, well dosed for the weight of your baby tort.
To keep him hydrated and warm I would place him in flat water ( with carot baby food ) in a plastic tub near the basking bulb. Please measure that the water stays warm and the tort too but not overheat ( highest place on the carapax not over 38 C. Water not below 37-38 C )
You can leave him in the water for hours. It will be good for his body and health.
Make sure that the night temp in the enclosure not gets below 29 C.
I am sorry to say it, but you must be prepared that your baby tort will die.

 

[Travick]

I managed to move clay hiding over him. I meassured temps above 25°C infront of hide (photo 2). I suppose there should be more warm felling inside, but I'm not very confident to move bulb closer now. It's too late for testing this arrangements over night. Normally there was around 20-22°C at night.
This is him eating few days ago (photo1).
How he can loose weight/apetit so suddenly and rapidly?
Do you think it's worm? Should I insist for med against worms at vet?
He told us tortoise is too small to take blood or screening :-/
I just lost my 16 years old dog two weeks ago, not good times for me...

 

[Bee62]

I managed to move clay hiding over him. I meassured temps above 25°C infront of hide (photo 2). I suppose there should be more warm felling inside, but I'm not very confident to move bulb closer now. It's too late for testing this arrangements over night. Normally there was around 20-22°C at night.
This is him eating few days ago (photo1).
How he can loose weight/apetit so suddenly and rapidly?
Do you think it's worm? Should I insist for med against worms at vet?
He told us tortoise is too small to take blood or screening :-/
I just lost my 16 years old dog two weeks ago, not good times for me...

20 - 25 C is too cold for a sick tort at night. 29 - 30 C would be better.
Do you use a ceramic heat emitter for night heat ?
Vitamin or antibiotic shots make torts often stop eating.
When your tort would be mine I would keep him warm and hydrated day and night as I described in my last post and wait.
Another med even against worms could kill your very sick tortoise.
He is fighting a very rough fight for live and only warmth and a good hydration will help him, but I am no VET.
And yes, this tort is too small for a blood screening.
I am sorry to hear that you lost your old dog. I lost my 13 year old dog on Februar, 15 th too.
I know how sad you are.

 

[Travick]

With towel on the top of the terrarium it's 27.1 °C now and I can see luminous dew on the soil. Tomorrow I'll check for the emitter. Thank you!

 

[Bee62]

With towel on the top of the terrarium it's 27.1 °C now and I can see luminous dew on the soil. Tomorrow I'll check for the emitter. Thank you!

My fingers are crossed for your baby. Please keep us updated about his health.

 

[Travick]

Ugh. Now he is only 16g (so at 50% from his max). Sleeping all day in hide. When taking away for soaking, he protesting with his legs and superise me how strong he is. After soaking I try to put him infront of collected mixed herb, which is very difficult to meassure where to put him down, because he paddle very fiercely in air before he hit the soil and he can be in seconds anywhere without knowing it. Now well done this and he smelled to food a little bit, checked the water over there (in same look bowl) and then went back to hide. He looked dissatisfied. Maybe it is just something psychological? Is he picky? Does he want strawberry / juice on his collected grass food? (Later he refused to eat even collected mix with strawberry juice) Does he want to hibernate? Temps are 38°C on spot and above 35°C overnight in his hide. And he stays there all the time. I know how he can get dehydated, but he doesn't like to be in any fluid for a long time. There is no UVB lamp now. Is it possible that lack of UVB causes him to want to hibernate? After issue with UVB coil bulb (which removal didn't change anything with his swollen eyes after month) I'm now thinking between two options about buying another one or wait 3 months when I can arrange real outdoor sunlight (without glass).

 

[Pearly]

How do you measure the temperature? It is imperative to have the CORRECT readings at the substrate level. You need to keep your tort at 29-30C to help him get over this. And SOAK, daily, twice a day, water at 95-105F (35-40C) again, must have good reliable ways to check your temps. My favorite for bath and outdoors is a infrared gun thermometer, and to check the sleeping quarters, digital thermometer that I just sit on the substrate. Please keep trying, little torts are resilient. To the point. I hope you are able to get things turned around for that little cute guy

 

[Travick]

Hi Pearly, thanks a lot for your answer! I think the temps are correct. Photos attached. Also bathes are at 35-39°C. Today he could stay for only 20+25 minutes (he can normally stay for a hour), but today after that he's went crazy to get out of there so I took him. Tomorrow we have VET appointment, I know there is probably not much more to do, just checking all the possibilities. I'm really scared to find him once died.

 

[katieandiggy]

I think in your previous post you mentioned that you do not have any UVB light at all now. I am no expert but I think you 100% need to get that ASAP. Not the coil one like you had before but maybe a tube one. From what I have read they cannot digest food without the correct UVB.

 

[Travick]

Thanks, I'm thinking about it, but I have some concerns. He received D vit by injection at first vet visit, the second vet three day later told us that this won't have any effects before 1 week. Now it's almost 2 weeks and nothing happened with his behaviour. I also ocasionally supplemented with Zoo med's reptivite vitamins with D3 all the time. Actually he ate a few days after he get fluid injection at second vet.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

Bit d has nothing to do with food digestion. Nether does the uvb. Uvb is needed so the tort came use the calcium and vit d is need so the body can absorb the calcium . They are what helps prevent mbd.

 

[Bee62]

Hi Pearly, thanks a lot for your answer! I think the temps are correct. Photos attached. Also bathes are at 35-39°C. Today he could stay for only 20+25 minutes (he can normally stay for a hour), but today after that he's went crazy to get out of there so I took him. Tomorrow we have VET appointment, I know there is probably not much more to do, just checking all the possibilities. I'm really scared to find him once died.

Please lower the temps in his hide. @Parly and I wrote 30 C.
33 C is a little bit too high. Is the hide humid ? It should be.
When he is very active in his bath it is no problem.
Please let the vet give him any shots. No vitamin and no antibiotics.
But maybe an ointment for the eyes.
Good luck and keep us updated, please.

 

[Travick]

Thank you all for your valuable advices and your support. I finally decided to leave him there in their reptile hospital as vet told me he's sure he'll die if stay with us as they can try to insert food directly to his stomach but didn't give it too much chances. I don't remember when I was so sad to coming home with empty hands.

 

[Bee62]

Thank you all for your valuable advices and your support. I finally decided to leave him there in their reptile hospital as vet told me he's sure he'll die if stay with us as they can try to insert food directly to his stomach but didn't give it too much chances. I don't remember when I was so sad to coming home with empty hands.

I can imagine how you feel coming home with empty hands. I hope so much that the VETs can save the life of your little tort. Please post when there is something new.
My fingers are crossed for your little tort.