Swollen legs with skin & claws falling off

[DesertHerd]

Hi All,

It seems like I am posting here almost weekly with new problems. Not sure what I could be doing wrong to cause so many different problems. Big guys has a massive back leg, lefty has growths on his neck, and now righty’s legs are swelling and the flesh thats swelling is extremely soft and breaks away at the slightest touch.

I noticed this morning that one of his claws on his legs had come off and when I went to look at it and see what was wrong I saw that the rest of his leg skin/flesh was super weak. I was able to take off big chunks of flesh just by rubbing it gently. Not sure if it is just layers and layers of dead skin but it was shocking to be sure.

I then looked at his front legs and they seemed to be just as weak and when rubbed the skin came off and started to bleed underneath. I have since bandaged his leg and have him in a seperate enclosure on papertowels to make sure he doesnt hurt himself further for the time being.

After seeing this I went and inspected the other torts and it looks like franklins front leg is also starting to swell and the new skin is weak and rubbing off. The yellow skin at the ends of their arms/legs are whats swelling and seemingly falling apart. A few days ago they were dark brown and scaley and now the yellow skin is swelling through.

I am at a loss for what could be happening to my torts. I started them completely wrong but for the last 3 months have had them in an enclosed chamber, daily soaks, 95 basking to 73 cool. 70-73 night temp. Feeding them a mix of escarole, dandelion and endive. I have also let them be out in their outside enclosure for the last two days so im not sure if theres any common insects that do this. They are all still very active/eating/pooping normally. Not sure if that rules out any possible problems.

Any advice or tips would be great! The earliest my Vet could get me in is next thursday but I will try and call and get that moved up

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Hi All,

It seems like I am posting here almost weekly with new problems. Not sure what I could be doing wrong to cause so many different problems. Big guys has a massive back leg, lefty has growths on his neck, and now righty’s legs are swelling and the flesh thats swelling is extremely soft and breaks away at the slightest touch.

I noticed this morning that one of his claws on his legs had come off and when I went to look at it and see what was wrong I saw that the rest of his leg skin/flesh was super weak. I was able to take off big chunks of flesh just by rubbing it gently. Not sure if it is just layers and layers of dead skin but it was shocking to be sure.

I then looked at his front legs and they seemed to be just as weak and when rubbed the skin came off and started to bleed underneath. I have since bandaged his leg and have him in a seperate enclosure on papertowels to make sure he doesnt hurt himself further for the time being.

After seeing this I went and inspected the other torts and it looks like franklins front leg is also starting to swell and the new skin is weak and rubbing off. The yellow skin at the ends of their arms/legs are whats swelling and seemingly falling apart. A few days ago they were dark brown and scaley and now the yellow skin is swelling through.

I am at a loss for what could be happening to my torts. I started them completely wrong but for the last 3 months have had them in an enclosed chamber, daily soaks, 95 basking to 73 cool. 70-73 night temp. Feeding them a mix of escarole, dandelion and endive. I have also let them be out in their outside enclosure for the last two days so im not sure if theres any common insects that do this. They are all still very active/eating/pooping normally. Not sure if that rules out any possible problems.

Any advice or tips would be great! The earliest my Vet could get me in is next thursday but I will try and call and get that moved up

Are you using vitamin supplements?

 

[DesertHerd]

Are you using vitamin supplements?

Nope no vitamin supplements other than a cuddlebone.

 

[Yvonne G]

Read the yellow bumps thread under 'Health' and see if your symptoms fit Austwickia. @mastershake

 

[DesertHerd]

I am not sure if that is what righty has, but afyer looking thorough those pictures it definitely looks like what lefty has and one of the symptoms was swelling of arms and legs so that could explain the others even though they dont have the bumps.

 

[DesertHerd]

I am not sure if that is what righty has, but afyer looking thorough those pictures it definitely looks like what lefty has and one of the symptoms was swelling of arms and legs so that could explain the others even though they dont have the bumps.

@mastershake I read another one of your posts about the eggs being infected. My hatchlings are 6 month old and just now showing signs of yellow bumps and leg swelling, could they have been infected since hatching or is it more likely they recently were infected? I havent had them outside in a 2 months and dont have other reptiles they could have gotten it from. Just not sure how this could have happened. I also switched them from a super dry to a very moist setup so not sure if that abrupt change could have done anything.

Would love to chat with you more if possible.

 

[wellington]

Did you get them from the same breeder/place at the same time?
It is highly contagious so if only one had it, it would have spread to the others. If they came from same place, same time, then likely they had it when you bought them but it just now appeared.
Hopefully @mastershake can help you further.
So very sorry. It's likely the best thing to do will be to humanly euthanize.

 

[mastershake]

personally i have a feeling they may have had it and you are just noticing it now. the pics you posted if they are aw are VERY advanced now. i have seen cases that look just like this though and my guess is if you send out the skin this is aw otherwise if not its def an advanced infection. i do hate to say this but im not sure there is much at that stage that can be done if they are this bad. another member here recently contacted me and they had a very similar looking case where the skin was just falling off with large yellow patch like that and it was sent to a lab and did come back positive for aw. where did this come from? if there was even one animal there that had aw in the slightest these could have all had this already, in some cases it starts deeper in the body and you dont see the small little bumps you end up with large blistery yellow areas like this and the skin falling off. other cases start on the skin and work the way into the body. as well as the nails falling off this does sadly look to be aw if i just had to take a guess. if it is there is no cure for it sadly. if you think one will not make it i can get you in touch with a lab who you can send one to for a necropsy so you at least know whats going on. i would like to know where they originally came from though.

even if you have ONE infected one walking around the floor or the grass outside with the others later touching the same surfaces it can be contagious. only one of them would have had to have the bacteria for it to be spread to the rest. you will generally not see any symptoms as far as eating or anything like that until they are on their last days.

remember aw is wide spread now. these babies are all over the country many breeders have no added them into their breeding groups even and can care less about selling animals with it. this will be around prob forever now without any way of eliminating it now. it sucks. i can send you a couple pics of the legs of one similar to this who did test positive for it though.

 

[mastershake]

here is an example of a deeper infection of aw where you dont see the bumps but end up with the sloughing skin like this

 

[zovick]

Hi All,

It seems like I am posting here almost weekly with new problems. Not sure what I could be doing wrong to cause so many different problems. Big guys has a massive back leg, lefty has growths on his neck, and now righty’s legs are swelling and the flesh thats swelling is extremely soft and breaks away at the slightest touch.

I noticed this morning that one of his claws on his legs had come off and when I went to look at it and see what was wrong I saw that the rest of his leg skin/flesh was super weak. I was able to take off big chunks of flesh just by rubbing it gently. Not sure if it is just layers and layers of dead skin but it was shocking to be sure.

I then looked at his front legs and they seemed to be just as weak and when rubbed the skin came off and started to bleed underneath. I have since bandaged his leg and have him in a seperate enclosure on papertowels to make sure he doesnt hurt himself further for the time being.

After seeing this I went and inspected the other torts and it looks like franklins front leg is also starting to swell and the new skin is weak and rubbing off. The yellow skin at the ends of their arms/legs are whats swelling and seemingly falling apart. A few days ago they were dark brown and scaley and now the yellow skin is swelling through.

I am at a loss for what could be happening to my torts. I started them completely wrong but for the last 3 months have had them in an enclosed chamber, daily soaks, 95 basking to 73 cool. 70-73 night temp. Feeding them a mix of escarole, dandelion and endive. I have also let them be out in their outside enclosure for the last two days so im not sure if theres any common insects that do this. They are all still very active/eating/pooping normally. Not sure if that rules out any possible problems.

Any advice or tips would be great! The earliest my Vet could get me in is next thursday but I will try and call and get that moved up

If you provide the name of the breeder from whom these came, Mastershake can tell you if that breeder is one that is known to have sold babies with Austwickia chelonae. There is at least one such breeder in CA as I recall it.

 

[mastershake]

there are some in every state pretty much now on the list with most being in az, fl and then ca then all the other states

 

[zovick]

there are some in every state pretty much now on the list with most being in az, fl and then ca then all the other states

Yes, that is true, although my point was to say that there are some breeders who are still knowingly selling babies to unsuspecting customers when they know their breeding stock has been producing infected babies.

I bred Collies for many, many years and one of their genetic problems is/was progressive retinal atrophy (PRA) which produces blindness if the gene is inherited from both parents. We had certain breeders who were knowingly breeding their PRA carrier stud dogs to bitches owned by unsuspecting clients. We also had breeders who knew their champion stud dog was a PRA carrier and kept it a secret, so when bitches came in to be bred to that particular dog, bred them to different stud dogs without the owners' knowledge.

This is a very similar situation, IMHO.

 

[mastershake]

MANY are still selling them who knowthey have had or have infected babies. its sad and terrible they are at the same time the main source of them is in az still. but yes if we knew where they came from we may be able to tell you if they have sold sick ones before.

 

[TeamZissou]

It seems that this group came from his grandmother's desert tortoise:

New Desert Tortoise Hatchling Owner Seeking Advice

Hi All, I am new to this forum but happy to be here to learn and hopefully one day contribute! My grandmas desert tortoise laid 9 eggs this year and in September 7 of them hatched. My grandma gave me the 7 hatchlings. They have been seemingly great the past 3 months until this week when I went...

tortoiseforum.org

What's strange is that he doesn't mention contact with other tortoises, so it's not clear where the bacteria could have come from. I wonder if his grandmother has other tortoises that came into contact at some point? Doesn't seem like a case of a breeder selling babies with austwickia in AZ a while back.

DesertHerd has been having strange skin and other problems with this group for a long time, and it being austwickia would explain a lot.

 

[mastershake]

yup. that very well could be the case i did not know he has had issues before with anything. or have they added a new one into the group etc we need more details. i just went back through some of his posts and i will say it looks like this started a while back and those hard skin pieces coming off can very well be aw. i have seen cases exactly like that. it may not be but its very possible

yup just like in dogs this happens all the time in dragons people breeding animals they know will produce high color but also things like neuro issues etc. it sucks people do things like that to make money. we have at least a dozen dragons here with issues from exactly that type of thing as well as others with fused spines, flipper babies etc etc. we keep them as comfortable as possible till we know they can not live a good life then have to make the decision for them.

 

[Stillwater]

Hi All,

It seems like I am posting here almost weekly with new problems. Not sure what I could be doing wrong to cause so many different problems. Big guys has a massive back leg, lefty has growths on his neck, and now righty’s legs are swelling and the flesh thats swelling is extremely soft and breaks away at the slightest touch.

I noticed this morning that one of his claws on his legs had come off and when I went to look at it and see what was wrong I saw that the rest of his leg skin/flesh was super weak. I was able to take off big chunks of flesh just by rubbing it gently. Not sure if it is just layers and layers of dead skin but it was shocking to be sure.

I then looked at his front legs and they seemed to be just as weak and when rubbed the skin came off and started to bleed underneath. I have since bandaged his leg and have him in a seperate enclosure on papertowels to make sure he doesnt hurt himself further for the time being.

After seeing this I went and inspected the other torts and it looks like franklins front leg is also starting to swell and the new skin is weak and rubbing off. The yellow skin at the ends of their arms/legs are whats swelling and seemingly falling apart. A few days ago they were dark brown and scaley and now the yellow skin is swelling through.

I am at a loss for what could be happening to my torts. I started them completely wrong but for the last 3 months have had them in an enclosed chamber, daily soaks, 95 basking to 73 cool. 70-73 night temp. Feeding them a mix of escarole, dandelion and endive. I have also let them be out in their outside enclosure for the last two days so im not sure if theres any common insects that do this. They are all still very active/eating/pooping normally. Not sure if that rules out any possible problems.

Any advice or tips would be great! The earliest my Vet could get me in is next thursday but I will try and call and get that move

Hi All,

It seems like I am posting here almost weekly with new problems. Not sure what I could be doing wrong to cause so many different problems. Big guys has a massive back leg, lefty has growths on his neck, and now righty’s legs are swelling and the flesh thats swelling is extremely soft and breaks away at the slightest touch.

I noticed this morning that one of his claws on his legs had come off and when I went to look at it and see what was wrong I saw that the rest of his leg skin/flesh was super weak. I was able to take off big chunks of flesh just by rubbing it gently. Not sure if it is just layers and layers of dead skin but it was shocking to be sure.

I then looked at his front legs and they seemed to be just as weak and when rubbed the skin came off and started to bleed underneath. I have since bandaged his leg and have him in a seperate enclosure on papertowels to make sure he doesnt hurt himself further for the time being.

After seeing this I went and inspected the other torts and it looks like franklins front leg is also starting to swell and the new skin is weak and rubbing off. The yellow skin at the ends of their arms/legs are whats swelling and seemingly falling apart. A few days ago they were dark brown and scaley and now the yellow skin is swelling through.

I am at a loss for what could be happening to my torts. I started them completely wrong but for the last 3 months have had them in an enclosed chamber, daily soaks, 95 basking to 73 cool. 70-73 night temp. Feeding them a mix of escarole, dandelion and endive. I have also let them be out in their outside enclosure for the last two days so im not sure if theres any common insects that do this. They are all still very active/eating/pooping normally. Not sure if that rules out any possible problems.

Any advice or tips would be great! The earliest my Vet could get me in is next thursday but I will try and call and get that moved up

I'm so sorry that is happening! See if you can get ahold of some Colloidal Silver, just 10ppm. It's expensive unless you know someone who makes it. If it's homemeade, it's usually 10ppm. Soak them in a shallow bit of it in a tupperware. They can drink it too. It won't hurt them, only help. Just a suggestion. Hope you find out what the problem is.

 

[DesertHerd]

yup. that very well could be the case i did not know he has had issues before with anything. or have they added a new one into the group etc we need more details. i just went back through some of his posts and i will say it looks like this started a while back and those hard skin pieces coming off can very well be aw. i have seen cases exactly like that. it may not be but its very possible

yup just like in dogs this happens all the time in dragons people breeding animals they know will produce high color but also things like neuro issues etc. it sucks people do things like that to make money. we have at least a dozen dragons here with issues from exactly that type of thing as well as others with fused spines, flipper babies etc etc. we keep them as comfortable as possible till we know they can not live a good life then have to make the decision for them.

Thanks for all the responses, they hatched naturally in my grandmas back yard where they didnt have contact with any other turtles. My grandma has 30+ other turtles in various sections of her yard but these hatched and were put in a box till I could get them the next day. They didnt show any signs of sickness until big guys leg unexpectedly swelled up a month or so ago. Then left started getting bumps on his neck and now the rest seem to be showing symptoms too. Not sure how they could have gotten it when they havent had contact with any other reptiles. Very confused and distraught.

 

[mastershake]

this can be carried in black crows have you seen any of those in the yard at any point? that is so far the only animal besides reptiles that can carry this specific type

 

[Jentortmom]

there are some in every state pretty much now on the list with most being in az, fl and then ca then all the other states

Will you tell me what breeders in Arizona you have on the list please. I foster for a 501c rescue here. I get asked about different breeders, especially when we don't have what they want, and I want to make sure I am not referring bad breeders. You can message me if you don't want to post it.

Thanks

 

[mastershake]

its more the "wholesalers" or resellers. the issue is MANY so called "breeders" in fact dont breed at all or if they do and they are low on animals they will also then buy them and bring them in and sell them as their "own" animals they bred. this is where the confusion comes in. so even sellers who have never had a case if they bring in ANY outside animals from anyone who has issues with this they then become susceptible to passing this on if you see what i mean. just because someone is not on our list doesnt mean they will not have this happen. the key is to make 100% they dont bring in any outside animals into either their breeding groups or to resell as babies.