The Florida Box turtle Myth

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RedfootsRule

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Well, I decided to post this, since I was recently accused of being a hypocrite, preceded by a rather colorful choice of wording.

I have been looking to acquire a Florida box turtle (terrepenea carolina bauri) for a while now. I posted an ad in the wanted section, and I was told since I was in Florida, it was illegal....I see so many posts of this on ads for florida box turtles "NO FLORIDA SALES!". I don't understand where this rumor circulated from originally, but I intend to clear it up.
If you read the info about box turtles on Florida fish and wildlife's' website (myfwc.com) it will basically tell you, you can buy from a legal vendor, but you can't own more than 2. Well, I'll clear up the second part first. This is not "twisting the law" by the way. The 2 limit is "2 per person of household". So, I live in a house with 6 people....I could legally own 12. Its right there in writing for you; so, if you have a family, the limit isn't a huge deal.
Now, the wording on the website is VERY tricky. Its hard to understand; everyone takes one look and sees "no buying, selling" and thinks its immediately illegal....Well, the fwc is FULL of contradictions. I knew very well from reading as much as I could, buying them from out of state IS legal. I also though buying them from an in-state licensed vendor was legal; however, this was not the case.
Well, after all the crap and accusations that I was doing something illegal, I finally just contacted them. I sent a message how I usually do....turtle and tortoise enthusiast, looking to acquire a breeding pair for conservation purposes (which is my purpose) yada, yada, yada. You know the drill.
This was my response:
Mr. Seay,

You may not purchase Florida Box Turtles in the State of Florida from an In-state vendor. Box turtles must be purchased from out of state vendors only. You do not need a permit to purchase the turtle from the out of state vendor.

Now, you can accuse me of just typing this up myself, yada yada, but first ask yourself; why would I do that? If this wasn't the actual reply, why would I be posting it here? I know for my own purposes, what I seek to do is completely legal. However, due to the rarity and decrease of population in Carolina Bauri in their natural state (Florida) I wish more people in this state to acquire them. That is my purpose....So why would I lie?
So, maybe your like me...In Florida, you love Florida box turtles, but you feel its unfair you can't have them when you live in their natural state? Well, you can now rest assured, its legal. May the dreams of Floridian residents' owning (or breeding) terrepenae carolina bauri come true :).
 

Levi the Leopard

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I have no idea what other thread you are referring to (and thats ok by me) but if you want to keep these turtles and have found out legally that you are able to do so, then great!

Smart move to contact them directly and glad you got an answer :)
 

RedfootsRule

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I've been wanting to keep more since years ago when I ended up with a female from a pet store...Didn't buy it. Someone related to me works there...I end up with turtles and tortoises that just get dropped off.
A couple months ago I started actively looking for a male, since my female is now mature. EVERY SINGLE PERSON thinks they're illegal; I just don't know where it came from.
The other thread was my wanted ad, but the posts were deleted. But you wouldn't want to see them anyways....
I just wanted to post this so everyone in Florida knows that they CAN have them.

And just a heads-up for anyone that decides to contact them also....You'll need to wait about 10 days or more for a response. :)
 

RedfootsRule

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turtlemann2 said:
id keep that email responce and maybe prrof of out of state purchase just in case :) but that is GREAT news for you!

Probably a very good idea :).


turtlemann2 said:
id keep that email responce and maybe prrof of out of state purchase just in case :) but that is GREAT news for you!

Probably a very good idea :).
 

Gerards

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RedfootsRule said:
However, due to the rarity and decrease of population in Carolina Bauri in their natural state (Florida)

I think they're very common here, not rare at all. I know someone that caught and tagged 600 individuals here in central florida, on one property.
 

RedfootsRule

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Gerards said:
RedfootsRule said:
However, due to the rarity and decrease of population in Carolina Bauri in their natural state (Florida)

I think they're very common here, not rare at all. I know someone that caught and tagged 600 individuals here in central florida, on one property.

Very interesting. All I know is, I here left and right they're getting rarer, and doing not-so-good because of roads....8 in 100 people try to hit them. All I hear is that they're in "severe decline" yada yada. Recent taggings are turning up fewer and fewer individuals...The usual. How large was the property? How long ago was this? 600 is very interesting.....
Of course, keep in mind, "increasing in rarity" or "in severe decline" does not mean that they're rare...The designation for a species to be listed as endangered, or vulnerable (even though Bauri, to my knowledge, are not listed yet) its not NECESSARILY the amount of animals there is thought to be, its the growing dangers in the wild, due to deforestation, road building, and just basically population decline.
In other words, there could be millions of box turtles, but that does not mean that they are not experienced population decline. People intentionally hit them, and there is always that matter of building houses...
However, I don't see how Bauri could ever go extinct, or severely endangered. Almost all thats left of the everglades is protected, (no house building) so they will always have a home :).
 

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I don't know,what you went through on the other thread to prompt this. But sure glad you found out the truth and shared with everyone. Now, get to that search, and don't forget to share their pics with us when you find them. Good luck.
 

RedfootsRule

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wellington said:
I don't know,what you went through on the other thread to prompt this. But sure glad you found out the truth and shared with everyone. Now, get to that search, and don't forget to share their pics with us when you find them. Good luck.

Mostly what prompted this is the constant belief of them being illegal in Florida....The accusation of being a "#$%@#$% hypocrite" just kind of pushed it over the edge.
Haha, I might have a male coming in this week, so will do :). The guy I'm getting it from, it was quite a discovery for him to. He called them himself, and then I sent him the email I got. I just don't get where it came from that they were illegal....
Thanks.
 

Gerards

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RedfootsRule said:
Very interesting. All I know is, I here left and right they're getting rarer, and doing not-so-good because of roads....8 in 100 people try to hit them. All I hear is that they're in "severe decline" yada yada. Recent taggings are turning up fewer and fewer individuals...The usual. How large was the property? How long ago was this? 600 is very interesting.....
Of course, keep in mind, "increasing in rarity" or "in severe decline" does not mean that they're rare...The designation for a species to be listed as endangered, or vulnerable (even though Bauri, to my knowledge, are not listed yet) its not NECESSARILY the amount of animals there is thought to be, its the growing dangers in the wild, due to deforestation, road building, and just basically population decline.
In other words, there could be millions of box turtles, but that does not mean that they are not experienced population decline. People intentionally hit them, and there is always that matter of building houses...
However, I don't see how Bauri could ever go extinct, or severely endangered. Almost all thats left of the everglades is protected, (no house building) so they will always have a home :).

I'm all for them being protected but don't believe they are even kind of uncommon. I'm NOT arguing with you, just my opinion on this species. It's hard not to find one, even in Miami. I found 15 and even more shells in less than a acre one morning in Miami. I have only lived in Oviedo for two years, moved here from Miami.

Also, drive down 8th street, they're tearing up the glades past 137 all the way down to Krome. Want to guess how many box turtles live in that little patch? There is a bunch and its all going to be houses soon. It's perfectly legal to catch your legal limit and those bauri could use a new home!
 

RedfootsRule

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[/QUOTE]

I'm all for them being protected but don't believe they are even kind of uncommon. I'm NOT arguing with you, just my opinion on this species. It's hard not to find one, even in Miami. I found 15 and even more shells in less than a acre one morning in Miami. I have only lived in Oviedo for two years, moved here from Miami.

Also, drive down 8th street, they're tearing up the glades past 137 all the way down to Krome. Want to guess how many box turtles live in that little patch? There is a bunch and its all going to be houses soon. It's perfectly legal to catch your legal limit and those bauri could use a new home!
[/quote]

Thats very odd...I've lived in Florida my whole life, and never seen any. However, until very recently (I've moved to Southwest Ranches (near Weston), about a mile from the everglades) I lived in a bad area of Miami where a box turtle would never live. Where is it your talking about? I hate catching turtles out of the wild, but if there is going to be housing built there :(....How commonly do you find them?
I really have no personal experience with their wild populations, its just everything I hear. I don't believe there at any risk of endangerment really; I think its just more the captive populations if anything.
 

tickle

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Who follows rules anyway?no one tells me how to live or what to do!lol
 

RedfootsRule

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tickle said:
Who follows rules anyway?no one tells me how to live or what to do!lol

Mhm, sounds nice, but unfortunately we have an army of legislators who's only goal or purpose in life is to take away everyones rights. Literally. Like all of these pathetic, no-life legislators that thrive on peoples fear of snakes, and feed it with the lies that there is some sort of massive outbreak of burmese pythons in the everglades. Anyone who knows a thing about snakes...Knows there is no danger. I, myself, have never found any. There will always be some there, yes, but they are no danger. Yet they will continue to feed the public these lies, increasing their fear, just so they can pass no laws...I once heard those trying to pass laws state that a 6 FOOT SNAKE CAN EAT A HUMAN. That was the most pathetic, inexcusable LIE I've ever heard in my life. Why do they do it? To ban snakes....Excuse me for having no respect for those pathetic individuals...
Now, of course, there are a lot of laws that are good. The purpose, to my understanding, for the no selling Bauri in the state of Florida, is to prevent them from being taken from the wild. It is illegal to take turtles, any species, from the wild for sale, in Florida. The basic purpose is so they aren't gathered to extinction for the pet trade...So its good, in a way, but there needs to be permits for some to breed them captivity and sell offspring. There actually may be; I'm looking into it....
 

Tair

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about a year ago we had one that ended up in our yard. He's never left. We don't do anything special for him he just likes hanging out, maybe friends with our sulcata.
 

pryncesssc

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Tair said:
about a year ago we had one that ended up in our yard. He's never left. We don't do anything special for him he just likes hanging out, maybe friends with our sulcata.

That is so cool !
 

Yvonne G

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Thank you, Charlie, for researching this for us.
 
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