Power tip: If you add thermal mass above the mat (like a thicker rock) and a thermostat probe rather than a rheostat for control, then when the lights are on above they will heat the rock and you will not be using electric for the mat because it would be at temperature. It would only come on when the tortoise is on the rock/mat and blocking the light.
Things I Do
- Thread starter Len B
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I went back and checked, I didn't send a dimmer because that tiles maximum temperature didn't get high enough to do any damage because of its low wattage use. Sorry to confuse you.
Go to the first page where all the sub forums are listed and look for Frequently Asked Questions. Under that heading there's one titled something like "things I wish I knew before I got my tortoise." And besides this one there are lots of other interesting threads for a beginner.
This can't work. There are far too many variables. Every home and every enclosure is different. And the "market" is changing constantly as far as what products are offered and where to get them. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. All we can do is explain the basics, point people in the right direction, and then each person has to customize their own enclosure and make little tweaks here and there to get things just right.
When using any be type of bottom heat never never heat the entire floor surface. Always leave plenty of room for the tortoise to get off the heat and onto an unheated floor area. On the house I'm setting up for Thomas I already had a 2x3ft Stanfield mat that I bought for a litter of puppies to be born near the first of December last year when my floors are usually cold. The pups will be a year old on the 28th of November. I looked at the size of the new house and instead of using that mat I bought a smaller 18x24 inch mat to give Thomas more unheated floor space. When I get the heaters spaced probably and their temp output adjusted correctly he won't spend much time setting directly on the mat to stay warm.
This thread just highlights the lengths and $ keepers will go to care for their animals. Keep it up!
This is what I'm doing, right now. I just picked up a ball python last night (he was part of my show, rehomed last year when I closed the biz but they gave him back to me) and his UTH is plugged into a dimmer switch. Last night, I set his tank on the rack and plugged it all in. After an hour I temped the area with the laser temp gun. It was low 80s. I dialed the dimmer up slightly and temped again before bed. It was 91. This morning it was 96 and he wasn't in the hide so I dialed it back down a bit. I'll temp it again soon. Once I consistently get the readings where I want them, I'll know I have it dialed in. I'll cut it down to weekly temp checks at that point. Then, perhaps monthly check ins until our next weather shift.
Also, I made little dots on my dimmer with a paint marker so I had a visual reference for dialing it up/down. 4 little dots are just enough to help me gauge if I'm adjusting it enough.
My thoughts, too. It's not hard, just perhaps a little more time consuming than a "set it and forget it" thermostat and takes a little bit of intuition on the keepers part.
I have a kilowatt reader in my hubby's tool chest. Well, he has a kilowatt reader in his tool chest that by marriage definition is mine if I want to use it! 
I would never have thought to use that in this application.
Up until now, my future-tort-shed plans for Levi didn't include belly heat because I didn't like the idea of maximum temp on/off for on contact temperature maintenance. Even though I've used dimmers with UTH on lizards, geckos and snakes for year, I never thought about using it with a tortoise. Go figure?!
Well, I now plan to incorporate it and being able to measure the wattage with a reader will help me dial it in much faster.
Look at that @Turtulas-Len what you thought no one wanted to hear is helping me out Thanks
I would never have thought to use that in this application.Up until now, my future-tort-shed plans for Levi didn't include belly heat because I didn't like the idea of maximum temp on/off for on contact temperature maintenance. Even though I've used dimmers with UTH on lizards, geckos and snakes for year, I never thought about using it with a tortoise. Go figure?!
Well, I now plan to incorporate it and being able to measure the wattage with a reader will help me dial it in much faster.
Look at that @Turtulas-Len what you thought no one wanted to hear is helping me out
Thanks
I understand now how the dimmer works. What I don't understand 100% is why not just use a thermostat? For the most part it is a set it and forget it compared to the dimmer that is a set it and keep checking and keep setting until satisfied.
My reason is it's more cost efficient. I just went out and checked the wattage being used in 3 of my houses. It's taking 257 watts total for all 3 of them. Granted its not super cold out right now but we are going into the 40s later tonight, we never got out of the 50s today. If I used thermostats my electric cost would go up just because the way they work. With the setup I'm using 257 watts of usage will stay constant and the inside house temps will keep the tortoise's comfortable all night and tomorrow too. Thermostats work fine, I just prefer the constant temps and constant electric draw not the 100 % to zero % of on and off to hold a temperature. Just my opinion.
Hello. One of the things I like best here on TFO is all of the dialogue. There are threads that do all of that here but the discussion is everywhere on this site also. I don't know how to link the threads but they are not really hard to find. It just takes time to get to know the site. Many times while reading here I get reminded of something I need to do for my little tort. I'm always glad for the tip.☺️
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After all, the title of the thread is, "Things I Do." Doesn't mean we have to do it too. But I'm likin' the ideas I'm learnin' here.
I see. I do like it being more cost efficient, that's always good. I also like the part you mentioned before about using a dimmer instead of having to move a basking light up or down to get accurate temps.
Thinking logically, it seems like it would be a wash as far as how much electricity either system would use. Sure the thermostat controlled device uses more power when "on", but it uses zero power when "off", while the rheostat is "on" 100% of the time, but at a lower power draw.
Have you done a side-by-side comparison? Or better yet, a comparison of the same heating device in the same night house with the two different systems at different times, but similar temperatures?
This is very interesting to me.
Because in the case of my ball python, I want to have a 90F warm spot available for him at all times. He thermoregulates just like our tortoises do by moving on/off heat as needed. If the UTH is on a thermostat, it can heat up very quickly and create a hot spot, perhaps even burn him...but then it can also cool down when the thermostat kicks off and not be the warmth he wants, when he needs it.
The dimmer switch on the UTH (under tank heater) maintains the exact temperature I want, when I want it- at all times.
I had a gecko rack set up with 4 tubs. Each tub had its own UTH and they were individually plugged into dimmers, too. I had to adjust them differently to make sure they were all the same temp. The top bins were the warmest, the lowest bin was the coolest. The top UTH dimmer switch was turned down significantly more than the bottom UTH dimmer switch but yet my pads were the exact same temp. Couldn't do that quite the same with a thermostat.
No I haven't done any tests. Why I think it would cost more for me is because of the type of heating I'm using. The mats and brooder heaters take a while to heat up but cool down rather quickly. In an earlier post I mentioned that the che in the new house wasn't a main heat source it will be used if for any reason I need to increase the temperature quicker than the others can do. If I were using the che and let's say a basking light for heat the cost would probably be the same with a thermostat or using a dimmer because they both produce heat almost instantly.
You've got my curiosity going. I have all the stuff to do the test, and now I'm wondering. I have a Kill-A-Watt EZ, and all the other stuff, so I can measure the actual electrical usage for a thermostat or a dimmer. I don't think it will change how anyone does things, but I am wondering which way uses more electricity now.
I'll bet you find the rheostat will use more electricity than the thermostat if all things are set properly. A constant on heat source dialed to a specific wattage will still draw that wattage even when the temperature rises to the desired minimum requirement. So will overheat a great deal of the time. Still nice for rising daytime temps, but still drawing energy even when you may reach a point over what is needed heat-wise. In a poorly insulated enclosure or night box that would be of more benefit as the desired overall temperature may not be reached as easily. But in a well-insulated enclosure/night box, there is a lot of time the thermostat will rarely have to turn on, while the rheostat controller is still drawing wattage. My Burmese Star night box for example set for 86° this time of year: overnight last night it dropped to 35°. This means I am needed to keep the night box 51° warmer than outside. Early this morning in the hours it was 35° my 600 watt heater turned on and ran for 16 minutes per hour. A month ago with overnight temps around 50° the thermostat turned on for 14 minutes every 115 minutes. And, during the day it did not turn on at all for almost 9 hours. During the summer I do leave it on, but it often only comes on twice for 13 -14 minutes during the night that drops to the low 60°s.
SO the colder part of the year when using the most energy my setup is using right at 600 watts for 1/4 hour or 150 watts per hour, to heat 50° above outside temps. To heat 20° above outside it uses about 70 watts per hour. AND... all of that drops as daytime temperatures rise. With a set rheostat it does not change over the course of a day.
I love this thread and the discussion. I do not believe the rheostat is better over a thermostat in a well designed enclosure or night box, though.
I do believe there is a place for floor heat with a rheostat, however. When trying to emulate ground temperatures in an environment where we have ground temperature substantially below what would be found in the natural habitat, using a matt or underfloor heating basically would be used to better approximate ground temperatures. Tortoises are designed to use ground temperatures to moderate their own temperatures. They use overhead (basking) heat to raise their body temperatures as desired. They don't "know" what sitting on ground too cold is! All their organs are towards the bottom of their bodies and the bulk of the top of the body is simply lungs. That is why they can burn the top of their carapace easily if given basking heat too hot while trying to heat their "core" which is at the bottom of their body - towards the plastron.
In trying to emulate ground temperature a rheostat would be the choice over a thermostat. We would want the ground a constant temperature - not to heat the tortoise or enclosure, but to create the desired "ground temperature" to prevent a tortoise from having to sit on ground colder than desired. This can be a big problem in many enclosures, especially if not well insulated.
Mark, you are correct. "But in a well-insulated enclosure/night box, there is a lot of time the thermostat will rarely have to turn on, while the rheostat controller is still drawing wattage."
Yes, Rheostat will in fact use more electricity because the means of manipulating the load is resistance exactly like a potentiometer. No on and off cycles.
Thermostat is one long temperature dependent cycle of full on and full off.
Dimmers are many rapid cycles off on and off. About 100-120 times per second every time the wave crosses zero.
Yes. Dimmers are actually turning the lights on and off many times each second. That's how it works.
Now that dimmers (if lights are a heat source) are about 99% efficient requiring 1W for every 100W used, dimmers AND a thermostat are a good combo. The thermostat calls for on or off and the dimmer responds with only the intensity required to maintain temp. Add thermal mass as a heat "battery" and that's as efficient as it gets for electric. I'm a control system programmer so I have processors laying around to handle this for my reef tank, etc.
An idea for the ground taken from commercial grow houses: If covered by a greenhouse type of enclosure you take hot air, pump it into the ground via pipes under the greenhouse during the day to store the heat in an "earth battery" and then reverse the fan based on temp in the greenhouse over night. In a tortoise application, you could distribute heat through piping from any air or water source. That's what radiant heating is and totally applicable for heating an entire enclosure to a suitable ground temp.
Yes, Rheostat will in fact use more electricity because the means of manipulating the load is resistance exactly like a potentiometer. No on and off cycles.
Thermostat is one long temperature dependent cycle of full on and full off.
Dimmers are many rapid cycles off on and off. About 100-120 times per second every time the wave crosses zero.
Yes. Dimmers are actually turning the lights on and off many times each second. That's how it works.
Now that dimmers (if lights are a heat source) are about 99% efficient requiring 1W for every 100W used, dimmers AND a thermostat are a good combo. The thermostat calls for on or off and the dimmer responds with only the intensity required to maintain temp. Add thermal mass as a heat "battery" and that's as efficient as it gets for electric. I'm a control system programmer so I have processors laying around to handle this for my reef tank, etc.
An idea for the ground taken from commercial grow houses: If covered by a greenhouse type of enclosure you take hot air, pump it into the ground via pipes under the greenhouse during the day to store the heat in an "earth battery" and then reverse the fan based on temp in the greenhouse over night. In a tortoise application, you could distribute heat through piping from any air or water source. That's what radiant heating is and totally applicable for heating an entire enclosure to a suitable ground temp.
Yes.
