CoreCollapse
New Member
Like many, I have had a lot of trouble finding pretty much any kind of detailed, in-depth, scientific research or documentation of Nabeuls in their wild habitat other than they reside in the semi-arid steppe area of Tunisia and across the northern region, stretching into Algeria.
So, to gain some knowledge about them, I've been looking into the Tunisian climate and learning about the land. I quickly realised how the standard care information given out for Greeks in general doesn't seem to match the average conditions they would experience in their own natural habitats. This doesn't just go for Tunisian/Nabeulensis Greeks, but a handful of the 'rarer' subspecies of T. Graeca too.
Knowing that, I started wondering; Wouldn't it be better if I mimicked the conditions of North Africa rather than following the standard Mediterranian advice? I mean, it seems like the standard is just a rough guide to keep the Tortoise comfortable enough to live and do Tortoise things rather than simulating it's natural habitats conditions?
What I mean by this is -
• Temperatures - From what I have seen, the standard advice given is largely a matter of opinion, but the average I've heard is 32c/89f in the basking zone. I looked at Tunisias weather and found that they regularly experience temperatures up to 38 every summer, with it sometimes being higher during heatwaves. With this is mind, I had the thought that surely the 'ideal' temp to have a Nabeuls basking zone around would be closer to 36-38c/96-100f?
• Humidity - Looking at the humidity around the semi-arid and northern coastal regions, it looks as though it's commonly around the low-to-mid 50s during summer days and spikes to the mid 80s at night before slowly falling to the mid 70s overnight, then dropping back to the 50s again in the morning when the sun blasts the humid air away. My enclosures are already being kept very close to these conditions, but are those numbers acceptable? I know their hide area is supposed to replicate a burrow, so that has a semi-transparet lid on that helps it stay at a near constant 73% with spikes to the mid 80s at night.
• Dietry - I've seen the majority of people suggest a balanced, varied diet of leafy greens, wildflowers, weeds, veg and some fruit as a rare treat, though some say not at all but that's a different post. Thing is, most say the regulars such as Dandelion, Cats Ear, Thistle, Stinging Nettle, Valerian, etc. are perfect for most species of both desert Torts and forest dwelling Torts, but after reading the list of commom flora found in Tunisia, I realised many wild Nabeuls would probably be eating things like Erodium, Yarrow, Capsella, Mallow, etc. instead of the things people often list, of which are more commonly found in meadow areas and grasslands with milder weather. Would it be more appropriate to source these seeds and start feeding those on a regular basis to closer match a more natural diet to their real one? Right now they eat a large diet of greens, flowers, wildflowers, shrubs, grasses and the occasional grape or cube of watermelon as a monthly treat, plus I have seen them eat small insects like beetles, aphids and spiders so they're very spoilt for choice. They get a dusting of calcium powder 3x a week too, and have access to cuttlebones. However, I'd like them to have as close to a natural diet as possible. I feel that they came from a certain area, they should live as though they are still in that area, like nature intended. Obviously I'd still give them other things they already like, but I wonder if they might be missing out on things they'd find in the wild.
• Local conditions outside - I live on the south-east coast of Britain, so we get a lot of rain but sizzling summer days in the high 20s, sometimes the low 30s. Our humidity in the relative area pretty much copies that of the Tunisian coast, the only different being that it's around 10 degrees cooler. I know that my Torts can spend time outside (and very much need to/should), but do these numbers mean what I think in that being outside in the natural humidity of my region shouldn't lead to any shell issues such as scute curling as recently mentioned to me by TeamZissou? They would still live indoors, but would it be okay for them to come outside with us as often as an subadult or adult?
• Substrates/Gound medium - I know this is a big, touchy subject among Tortoise keepers. I'm aware of all the arguments for what's best/worse/to be avoided, etc. It seems Sand is a very iffy one and something that causes a lot of disputes due to stories of ingestion leading to impaction and keepers claiming irritation of the Torts eyes and mucus membranes.
When it comes to Arid and Desert dwelling Torts, aren't these guys in sandy soil for their whole lives? I know wild Torts rarely live a full life span, but I can't imagine very many die from ingestion of sandy soil, but rather from predation or disease? I have seen my two willingly snap up a leaf covered in substrate, and although I know it's not good for them and I try to mitigate it from happening by feeding on smooth surfaces/dishes, I can't imagine the problem being purely what the substrate is made from. What I mean is, Coco Coir can clog them up just like sand, and has been known to get tangled in their intestines when they consume stringy pieces. Gravel can be harmful, even wood chips if they poke at eyes or are eaten.
SO.. I came up with the idea that instead of using straight-coco or straight-barkchips, I'd make a substrate to closely match the soil type/consistency tothat of which you'd find in Tunisia using geographical data on the landscape Nabeuls are found. Has anybody else tried anything like this apart from maybe Zoos for special animals? If so, how did you find it? Did you have any problems? Could you give me any suggestions?
Apologies that this post became a wall of text, I've tried my best to condense it down and make it as easy to read as possible.
Any thoughts on this idea are appreciated!
Thanks!
So, to gain some knowledge about them, I've been looking into the Tunisian climate and learning about the land. I quickly realised how the standard care information given out for Greeks in general doesn't seem to match the average conditions they would experience in their own natural habitats. This doesn't just go for Tunisian/Nabeulensis Greeks, but a handful of the 'rarer' subspecies of T. Graeca too.
Knowing that, I started wondering; Wouldn't it be better if I mimicked the conditions of North Africa rather than following the standard Mediterranian advice? I mean, it seems like the standard is just a rough guide to keep the Tortoise comfortable enough to live and do Tortoise things rather than simulating it's natural habitats conditions?
What I mean by this is -
• Temperatures - From what I have seen, the standard advice given is largely a matter of opinion, but the average I've heard is 32c/89f in the basking zone. I looked at Tunisias weather and found that they regularly experience temperatures up to 38 every summer, with it sometimes being higher during heatwaves. With this is mind, I had the thought that surely the 'ideal' temp to have a Nabeuls basking zone around would be closer to 36-38c/96-100f?
• Humidity - Looking at the humidity around the semi-arid and northern coastal regions, it looks as though it's commonly around the low-to-mid 50s during summer days and spikes to the mid 80s at night before slowly falling to the mid 70s overnight, then dropping back to the 50s again in the morning when the sun blasts the humid air away. My enclosures are already being kept very close to these conditions, but are those numbers acceptable? I know their hide area is supposed to replicate a burrow, so that has a semi-transparet lid on that helps it stay at a near constant 73% with spikes to the mid 80s at night.
• Dietry - I've seen the majority of people suggest a balanced, varied diet of leafy greens, wildflowers, weeds, veg and some fruit as a rare treat, though some say not at all but that's a different post. Thing is, most say the regulars such as Dandelion, Cats Ear, Thistle, Stinging Nettle, Valerian, etc. are perfect for most species of both desert Torts and forest dwelling Torts, but after reading the list of commom flora found in Tunisia, I realised many wild Nabeuls would probably be eating things like Erodium, Yarrow, Capsella, Mallow, etc. instead of the things people often list, of which are more commonly found in meadow areas and grasslands with milder weather. Would it be more appropriate to source these seeds and start feeding those on a regular basis to closer match a more natural diet to their real one? Right now they eat a large diet of greens, flowers, wildflowers, shrubs, grasses and the occasional grape or cube of watermelon as a monthly treat, plus I have seen them eat small insects like beetles, aphids and spiders so they're very spoilt for choice. They get a dusting of calcium powder 3x a week too, and have access to cuttlebones. However, I'd like them to have as close to a natural diet as possible. I feel that they came from a certain area, they should live as though they are still in that area, like nature intended. Obviously I'd still give them other things they already like, but I wonder if they might be missing out on things they'd find in the wild.
• Local conditions outside - I live on the south-east coast of Britain, so we get a lot of rain but sizzling summer days in the high 20s, sometimes the low 30s. Our humidity in the relative area pretty much copies that of the Tunisian coast, the only different being that it's around 10 degrees cooler. I know that my Torts can spend time outside (and very much need to/should), but do these numbers mean what I think in that being outside in the natural humidity of my region shouldn't lead to any shell issues such as scute curling as recently mentioned to me by TeamZissou? They would still live indoors, but would it be okay for them to come outside with us as often as an subadult or adult?
• Substrates/Gound medium - I know this is a big, touchy subject among Tortoise keepers. I'm aware of all the arguments for what's best/worse/to be avoided, etc. It seems Sand is a very iffy one and something that causes a lot of disputes due to stories of ingestion leading to impaction and keepers claiming irritation of the Torts eyes and mucus membranes.
When it comes to Arid and Desert dwelling Torts, aren't these guys in sandy soil for their whole lives? I know wild Torts rarely live a full life span, but I can't imagine very many die from ingestion of sandy soil, but rather from predation or disease? I have seen my two willingly snap up a leaf covered in substrate, and although I know it's not good for them and I try to mitigate it from happening by feeding on smooth surfaces/dishes, I can't imagine the problem being purely what the substrate is made from. What I mean is, Coco Coir can clog them up just like sand, and has been known to get tangled in their intestines when they consume stringy pieces. Gravel can be harmful, even wood chips if they poke at eyes or are eaten.
SO.. I came up with the idea that instead of using straight-coco or straight-barkchips, I'd make a substrate to closely match the soil type/consistency tothat of which you'd find in Tunisia using geographical data on the landscape Nabeuls are found. Has anybody else tried anything like this apart from maybe Zoos for special animals? If so, how did you find it? Did you have any problems? Could you give me any suggestions?
Apologies that this post became a wall of text, I've tried my best to condense it down and make it as easy to read as possible.
Any thoughts on this idea are appreciated!
Thanks!