I've been trying, and failing, to solve this mystery since my first sulcatta in the early 90's. I've seen a lot of stuff as my job takes me all over the world and the country. I frequently stay for weeks or months in far off places and work 12-16 hour days, six days a week with local crew members. Then spend our one day off hanging out with them too. This gives me a lot of time to get to know them and about their torts. The last year or so, I've been working in Louisiana a lot. Mostly in and around New Orleans. Some of the tortoise enthusiasts on the crew were from Southern Florida as well as the locals. I could not find a pyramided tortoise any where in Louisiana or Southern Florida, unless it was raised indoors, in the A/C in a dry substrated, beef- jerky maker set-up. It didn't matter what they were fed. It didn't matter if they got sun, UV, calcium or exercise. There was one in a dirty wooden box, in a shed, under a roof. The guy fed him lettuce, tomatoes and, no joke, dog kibble. He was smooth as a wild caught. One guy in Florida raised his sulcatas in his backyard with occasional soaked dog-kibble and monkey chow. He showed me pics and video on his phone. Totally smooth. They ate weeds all day and he had a good sized yard, but they appeared to be around 50-60 pounds at 5 years old. I've got all sorts of anecdotal stories like this, but my premise is this: If a tort is raised with exposure to that Southern humid air. They don't pyramid, regardless of other factors.
My sulcatas have all been raised in ideal conditions (according to the experts) for a desert species. They got UV bulbs and room sized enclosures when they were indoors, but they were outside in the sun in huge pens almost every day from hatchlings. They got a varied diet with only the expert recommended things and I fed in small amounts, so they wouldn't grow too fast. My boys are two years older, yet half the size of Maggies Bob. No protein of any kind except what's in the leafy greens and weeds. They got frequent soaks and regular calcium and vitamin supplementation. The only thing they didn't get was humidity. I kept them dry, on a dry substrate, in a dry climate, because that's what I was told desert species need. To do otherwise, I was told, would result in a deadly upper respiratory tract infection. I believed it because I was regularly shipping CDTs out to my buddies house in Whittier, away from the damp beach air where they were living when the owners would bring them to me with horrible URTIs. If we caught it early enough they'd live and be okay. Sometimes we had to hit 'em with the Baytril to pull them through, but that was hard on them too. My torts had all of the commonly listed causes of pyramiding covered, EXCEPT humidity. Mine pyramided. Not the worst I've seen, but pretty significantly.
Premise 1: Pyramiding is CAUSED by growth in the absence of enough humidity.
Premise 2: Exercise, hydration and proper diet are contributing factors, but deficiencies in these areas don't CAUSE it. Lack of exercise means fewer calories being spent on locomotion and therefore, those calories contribute to more growth. High protein foods cause more growth (as well as a host of other possible internal maladies). So, more protein and less exercise will make them pyramid MORE than a highly exercised, properly fed one. Anything that contributes to MORE growth in the absence of adequate humidity will make them pyramid more, but its the lack of humidity that CAUSES the pyramiding.
Premise 3: I don't think UV, calcium or D3 has anything to do with pyramiding. Totally separate problems.
Premise 4: The people who have disagreed with all of this USUALLY tend to live in areas with high and or variable humidity. OR they inadvertently humidified their torts enclosure. Fish tanks near by. Other humidity loving reptiles near by. Some houses just hold in dampness in some areas of the world. I haven't got much opposition to these theories from people with torts in AZ, UT and the California desert. I hear the story of such and such species being raised with out humidity and being relatively smooth. First of all this clearly varies with species. Second, I would argue that your tort DID get humidity from somewhere. My parents live 50 miles south of here relatively close to the beach. In their wet, grassy, landscaped backyard, it stays pretty humid. Tortoises raised around that area pyramid a lot less than mine that are raised in single digit humidity, on dry dirt for their whole lives.
What I would like is for people to point out how my premises are wrong. I want to know what you have experienced personally. Not what you read somewhere, in a book by an "expert" or, for goodness sake, on the internet.
If my current sulcata eggs turn out to be fertile, I'm going to use the hatchlings in an experiment to try to prove or disprove what I've theorized here. I'm going to raise them in the identical aforementioned "perfect" conditions. Same diet, same soaking, same pens, same supplementation, same climate, same everything. EXCEPT, I will keep them humid at all times. I might divide them up and try some different diets. I might do weeds/grass/cactus for some, grocery store greens for others, and primarily Mazuri for a third group. They will all be housed in the same room under the same conditions with the same substrate. For their outdoor pens, I'm planning on planting sod, watering it heavily and limiting their outside time.
One way or another, this argument will be over for me in a few years time. If I raise these babies the same way I always have, and the only factor I change is the humidity, I will have my answer.
My sulcatas have all been raised in ideal conditions (according to the experts) for a desert species. They got UV bulbs and room sized enclosures when they were indoors, but they were outside in the sun in huge pens almost every day from hatchlings. They got a varied diet with only the expert recommended things and I fed in small amounts, so they wouldn't grow too fast. My boys are two years older, yet half the size of Maggies Bob. No protein of any kind except what's in the leafy greens and weeds. They got frequent soaks and regular calcium and vitamin supplementation. The only thing they didn't get was humidity. I kept them dry, on a dry substrate, in a dry climate, because that's what I was told desert species need. To do otherwise, I was told, would result in a deadly upper respiratory tract infection. I believed it because I was regularly shipping CDTs out to my buddies house in Whittier, away from the damp beach air where they were living when the owners would bring them to me with horrible URTIs. If we caught it early enough they'd live and be okay. Sometimes we had to hit 'em with the Baytril to pull them through, but that was hard on them too. My torts had all of the commonly listed causes of pyramiding covered, EXCEPT humidity. Mine pyramided. Not the worst I've seen, but pretty significantly.
Premise 1: Pyramiding is CAUSED by growth in the absence of enough humidity.
Premise 2: Exercise, hydration and proper diet are contributing factors, but deficiencies in these areas don't CAUSE it. Lack of exercise means fewer calories being spent on locomotion and therefore, those calories contribute to more growth. High protein foods cause more growth (as well as a host of other possible internal maladies). So, more protein and less exercise will make them pyramid MORE than a highly exercised, properly fed one. Anything that contributes to MORE growth in the absence of adequate humidity will make them pyramid more, but its the lack of humidity that CAUSES the pyramiding.
Premise 3: I don't think UV, calcium or D3 has anything to do with pyramiding. Totally separate problems.
Premise 4: The people who have disagreed with all of this USUALLY tend to live in areas with high and or variable humidity. OR they inadvertently humidified their torts enclosure. Fish tanks near by. Other humidity loving reptiles near by. Some houses just hold in dampness in some areas of the world. I haven't got much opposition to these theories from people with torts in AZ, UT and the California desert. I hear the story of such and such species being raised with out humidity and being relatively smooth. First of all this clearly varies with species. Second, I would argue that your tort DID get humidity from somewhere. My parents live 50 miles south of here relatively close to the beach. In their wet, grassy, landscaped backyard, it stays pretty humid. Tortoises raised around that area pyramid a lot less than mine that are raised in single digit humidity, on dry dirt for their whole lives.
What I would like is for people to point out how my premises are wrong. I want to know what you have experienced personally. Not what you read somewhere, in a book by an "expert" or, for goodness sake, on the internet.
If my current sulcata eggs turn out to be fertile, I'm going to use the hatchlings in an experiment to try to prove or disprove what I've theorized here. I'm going to raise them in the identical aforementioned "perfect" conditions. Same diet, same soaking, same pens, same supplementation, same climate, same everything. EXCEPT, I will keep them humid at all times. I might divide them up and try some different diets. I might do weeds/grass/cactus for some, grocery store greens for others, and primarily Mazuri for a third group. They will all be housed in the same room under the same conditions with the same substrate. For their outdoor pens, I'm planning on planting sod, watering it heavily and limiting their outside time.
One way or another, this argument will be over for me in a few years time. If I raise these babies the same way I always have, and the only factor I change is the humidity, I will have my answer.
