Tortoise lighting and enclosure

[Russiantortmom1]

Hello, I have had my tortoise for two years now, she is about 6 years old Russian Tortoise. When I first got her I got a long Guinea pig wire enclosure, the height was perfect and she did well with her lighting (100 W uvb zoomed powersun) and everything, no issues. Then I started having trouble with the lights first, the zoomed powersun lights would not last, I buy the 100W and they go out in less than a month, the last one I bought didn't even turn on. I made sure I bought the right dome light and everything. So I have now decided not to buy this brand of light anymore. However a lot has had to change recently for my Tortoise and I do not know how to improve it. 1st I had to get her a new enclosure, because the bottom of her last one was a lined cloth and the attachment loops were ripped to the point of the bottom not being able to attach to the cage after my last move. I tried to find the exact cage and our wonderful pet industry has of course done away with this perfect cage. I did not want to go to the small little tank enclosures that the pet stores sale because 1) cost 2) size for cost and 3) I would rather her have an open type cage, than a glass tank. But the only thing I can now find as far as something similar to my previous cage are really tall rabbit hutch style cages. I got one, hoping I could make the lighting work but the height is around 20 inches or a little more (depending on the freshness of her bedding) from her bedding, the minimum apparent inches for correct UVB with the 100W exposure for hertortoise type is at most 16" and thats at the lower end of correct UVB exposure. I can get a stronger bulb I know, I was considering going up to 160w for this cage, but now my concern is the heat. I had gone down to an 80 w UVB hoping I could get the heat and exposure right for the summer, the heat is great around 98-99 at the highest, but the UVB exposure was not correct and since last night she started showing signs of upper respiratory. I very quickly put her in a hospice bin and switched her light to a 100w Thrive brand UVB but the problem is the bin is 12.5 inches tall (which is ideal for UVB exposure), but the heat index will go up to 104 degrees F in the hottest spot of the light and that is too hot for her and she won't fully sun bathe and this is the problem anytime I get these bulbs in an appropriate range. Her new enclosure is split level, so I thought I would try the UVB over the top level, but her favorite spot to stay is the bottom level. I will include a pic but I am about to clean her enclosure out since she is in a hospice bin now, so the bedding will change, but this is how it looks and how her lights are, she has a regular day light (no heat) and very strong heat only light that is not on all of the time, only in the winter or cool mornings, and the UVB. But when I have the light at the top of the tank the heat is good and I even turn on an extra little heat lamp for a little bit during the morning time and she will sit under them, but I know the UVB is questionable even at the 100W. So, do I just go up to a 160 W for this cage height? so she gets UVB at the bottom of the cage, Do I get two different UVB lights, one strong for the bottom of the tank (Around 21" H) and one at like an 80w or maybe 100 W for the top of the tank (around 16" H) ? or does anyone have recommendations on what to do either for how to get the uvb and heat right for this cage set up or how to get a good enclosure that is easy to clean and has lots of room for her to roam in ? OR even what the heck is going on with these UVB ligths, I do not have a ton of money to spend anymore and I have been exchanging these UVB lights for the past few months because they just keep going out, I am hoping Thrive is a good brand. but I cannot stand all of this lighting and cage and heat nonsense. I would love some help please, thank you.

PS. I completely forgot about tortoise tables, I am thinking of moving her to one of these, any suggestions?

 

[SinLA]

Ok wow. So much here. Please don't take this the wrong way, and please please read this sheet:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

But seeing that is like a knife in the heart of people on this board, especially knowing she's been like that for two years. Have you ever seen those photos of dogs in meat markets where a dog lives its whole life in a little cage. That's literally what is going on here. This is like 1/20th of the space it needs, maybe less.

A tortoise needs room to walk around. Lots of people Do keep them in small enclosures so everything thinks its OK because they "fit" but a Russian tortoise should have 4' x 8 ' enclosure (yes 4 FEET by 8 FEET), and the substrate is not right either. Also that shelf is a flipping hazard and if it flips and you don't see it, it can suffocate on itself.

Keeping a tortoise in that type of setup is not Ok for it. That doesn't mean you don't love her deeply, but you aren't caring for it properly. I"m so sorry to say it. It doesn't mean you don't mean well, but you saying you don't have space for anything more doesn't change what its needs are.

 

[Tom]

Hello, I have had my tortoise for two years now, she is about 6 years old Russian Tortoise. When I first got her I got a long Guinea pig wire enclosure, the height was perfect and she did well with her lighting (100 W uvb zoomed powersun) and everything, no issues. Then I started having trouble with the lights first, the zoomed powersun lights would not last, I buy the 100W and they go out in less than a month, the last one I bought didn't even turn on. I made sure I bought the right dome light and everything. So I have now decided not to buy this brand of light anymore. However a lot has had to change recently for my Tortoise and I do not know how to improve it. 1st I had to get her a new enclosure, because the bottom of her last one was a lined cloth and the attachment loops were ripped to the point of the bottom not being able to attach to the cage after my last move. I tried to find the exact cage and our wonderful pet industry has of course done away with this perfect cage. I did not want to go to the small little tank enclosures that the pet stores sale because 1) cost 2) size for cost and 3) I would rather her have an open type cage, than a glass tank. But the only thing I can now find as far as something similar to my previous cage are really tall rabbit hutch style cages. I got one, hoping I could make the lighting work but the height is around 20 inches or a little more (depending on the freshness of her bedding) from her bedding, the minimum apparent inches for correct UVB with the 100W exposure for hertortoise type is at most 16" and thats at the lower end of correct UVB exposure. I can get a stronger bulb I know, I was considering going up to 160w for this cage, but now my concern is the heat. I had gone down to an 80 w UVB hoping I could get the heat and exposure right for the summer, the heat is great around 98-99 at the highest, but the UVB exposure was not correct and since last night she started showing signs of upper respiratory. I very quickly put her in a hospice bin and switched her light to a 100w Thrive brand UVB but the problem is the bin is 12.5 inches tall (which is ideal for UVB exposure), but the heat index will go up to 104 degrees F in the hottest spot of the light and that is too hot for her and she won't fully sun bathe and this is the problem anytime I get these bulbs in an appropriate range. Her new enclosure is split level, so I thought I would try the UVB over the top level, but her favorite spot to stay is the bottom level. I will include a pic but I am about to clean her enclosure out since she is in a hospice bin now, so the bedding will change, but this is how it looks and how her lights are, she has a regular day light (no heat) and very strong heat only light that is not on all of the time, only in the winter or cool mornings, and the UVB. But when I have the light at the top of the tank the heat is good and I even turn on an extra little heat lamp for a little bit during the morning time and she will sit under them, but I know the UVB is questionable even at the 100W. So, do I just go up to a 160 W for this cage height? so she gets UVB at the bottom of the cage, Do I get two different UVB lights, one strong for the bottom of the tank (Around 21" H) and one at like an 80w or maybe 100 W for the top of the tank (around 16" H) ? or does anyone have recommendations on what to do either for how to get the uvb and heat right for this cage set up or how to get a good enclosure that is easy to clean and has lots of room for her to roam in ? OR even what the heck is going on with these UVB ligths, I do not have a ton of money to spend anymore and I have been exchanging these UVB lights for the past few months because they just keep going out, I am hoping Thrive is a good brand. but I cannot stand all of this lighting and cage and heat nonsense. I would love some help please, thank you.

PS. I completely forgot about tortoise tables, I am thinking of moving her to one of these, any suggestions?

You have received all the usual incorrect care advice, and you've been sold all the wrong products for your tortoise. I am glad you found us!

MVBs, the type of light you are using, are no good for tortoises. There are many problems with them, as you've seen, but the biggest problem is that you should not be running UV all day. This is unnatural, unnecessary, and in some cases harmful. You need the correct type of UV tube separate from your basking heat lamp and your ambient lighting. And really, in your area, you shouldn't need indoor UV at all.

You live in AZ. Why not make a safe secure outdoor enclosure? Your climate is perfect.

All of this and more is explained in the care sheet that SinLA linked for you. I hope you will take the time to read it for the health and well being of your tortoise.

 

[Russiantortmom1]

Hi I have the lights on a 12 hours cycle so they turn on at sun up and sun down, so the light is not on at all times. I did try the non heat UVB with the separate heat lamp, but she didn't seem happy with it at all. I do not have an outdoor enclosure because I rent and I lived in an apt before that and I move too much. I do have the back yard secure for her to have some outdoor time, I do not know about her being out in 112 degree heat though. But, also my living situations are also changing every 6-12 m unfortunately right now, so I need a secure indoor set up for her as well. Her set up was perfect before I had to change her enclosure, and I used to know an exotic vet who recommended the 100 w power sun and that mercury vapor as the best lighting, so that is why I stuck with that. I do not see a link to the care sheet?

 

[Tom]

Hi I have the lights on a 12 hours cycle so they turn on at sun up and sun down, so the light is not on at all times. I did try the non heat UVB with the separate heat lamp, but she didn't seem happy with it at all. I do not have an outdoor enclosure because I rent and I lived in an apt before that and I move too much. I do have the back yard secure for her to have some outdoor time, I do not know about her being out in 112 degree heat though. But, also my living situations are also changing every 6-12 m unfortunately right now, so I need a secure indoor set up for her as well. Her set up was perfect before I had to change her enclosure, and I used to know an exotic vet who recommended the 100 w power sun and that mercury vapor as the best lighting, so that is why I stuck with that. I do not see a link to the care sheet?

Lights and a heat lamp should be on 12 hours a day, but the UV should not be on 12 hours a day.

You can make a portable outdoor enclosure, or set up something temeprairay and easily moved like with 2x12s for walls, or cinder blocks.

When it is 112, the tortoise can utilize an underground retreat that you have made for it.

Vets don't usually know tortoise care, which is why the vet recommended the wrong bulb to you. When those bulbs first came out, I used to use and recommend them too. Then I learned better after experiencing the problems with them first hand.

Here is the link again:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

And here is the care sheet that is also at the bottom of the first link. It will all be an eye opener for you:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

As you read the info and become frustrated or angry, remember that our only goal is to help you and your tortoise. The red pill is a jagged one for some people. You've been given the wrong info for a long time, and this is not your fault. What is happening to you is common. The right info will be different. Questions are welcome. Ask for explanation. You don't have to believe it because I said so. I'm happy to tell you WHY I make the recommendations that I make.

 

[wellington]

Tortoises are an on going expense. Bulbs are the main culprit. Ceramic heat emitters,a name brand one, will last forever if housed in a correct fixture. A basking bulb the incandescent flood can last a long time too. Uvb bulbs, they don't last very long, as far as giving off uvb, but if you can't get him outside for 3-4 times a week for uvb, then the florescent tube uvb is needed and have to be changed at least yearly most likely.
He does need a much bigger enclosure. The one pictured is not a tortoise enclosure. 4x8 minimum indoor and larger outside. Many will build a two level enclosure to get enough room that a 4x8 would be
If proper care is impossible for you to do, then consider rehoming him. Unfortunately too many people get sold and told all the wrong info and then are stuck not being able to provide the proper care.