Tortoise seems to avoid heat...

[Lewis12345]

Hello, I posted a few days ago concerning my new Hermann's Tortoise, Mr T. He is less than a year old, and I keep him in a tortoise table. He has a UV and heat emitting lamp which I keep on for 12 hours in the day, and a heat lamp which he likes to sleep under at night.
He is worrying me a bit though as I've read that tortoises need to bask to be able to digest their food.
The thing is that when he wakes up, he goes to eat his food,then he sometimes has a wander, but then instead of going off to bask, he retreats to the fairly cold hutch on the other side of the table to his day lamp! He goes back to sleep in the cold hutch and unless I move him into the light, he would happily stay asleep in the cold all day!
Is this normal behaviour or is it suggestive of an enclosure design problem?
Thanks for any replies,
Lewis

 

[dmmj]

no its not normal. my first thought is how warm is it @ the basking spot?

 

[Lewis12345]

Unfortunately I can't tell how hot it is as I haven't bought a thermometer yet, but I will definitely go out and buy one tomorrow! If it's any help I can tell you that the lamp is 10cm from the floor of the closure, approx 8 inches and the substrate is quite warm to the touch. Sorry about this!

 

[Pearly]

Hi, welcome to the Forum and merry Christmas. Less than a year old is still very young. I've had 2 RF babies since June'15. They are about 9 months old now. I had made most of the "beginners' mistakes" possible but have recovered from them and have healthy happy youngsters now. At the beginning I did what most of us nubes do, had my enclosure cool side temps too low. It is generally recommended to keep temps no lower then 80 throughout the enclosure. Now thermometer on my dark cool end reads 80-82F. Warmth and high humidity is essential to healthy youngsters

 

[Lewis12345]

Merry Christmas to you to! Unfortunately I pretty sure that my cool side is not 27*. What sort of thermometer shoulI use to test the temps of the enclosure?

 

[Pearly]

I have 2 analog and 2 digital thermometers and hygrometers one of each in warm and cool areas, then I have digital thermo/hygrometer with probes inside of one of the hides, and infrared "gun thermometer" for spot checks all over. those are the analog ones (pic taken before my daughter got the baby torts, we were just getting things ready) this is the "gun thermometer" for spot checks here is the one with probes and the other 2 digital thermo/hygro I'll put the picture on here soon (thought I had one here). You can get them pretty inexpensive at hatdware stores. The most expensive ones will be the ones with probes and the infrared "guns"

 

[Lyn W]

Unfortunately I can't tell how hot it is as I haven't bought a thermometer yet, but I will definitely go out and buy one tomorrow! If it's any help I can tell you that the lamp is 10cm from the floor of the closure, approx 8 inches and the substrate is quite warm to the touch. Sorry about this!

10cm is pretty low - that's less than 4 inches are you sure that's right? If so its possibly too hot for him. About 10 inches (less than 30 cm) above the top of the shell was recommended to me but you really need a thermometer asap to get it right.

 

[Lewis12345]

Ok thanks Lyn what is the optimum temp underneath the lamp? The lamp is 100 Watt and I'll be getting a thermometer tomorrow. So is his the reason that after he eats he goes into the cold hutch and goes back to sleep?

 

[Lyn W]

I can't help with your temps as I have a leopard tort so his temperatures will be different to a Hermann's tort. Have a look at the Hermann's caresheet under Species Specific to see what the recommended temps are and you can set this with your thermometer.

I use a CHE for night heat ( and additional heat if it's very cold) and I run this through a thermostat with a probe so it switches on and off as needed. I also use a MVB for heat, light and uvb in one bulb in the day. This is hanging so I can adjust the temp by raising or lowering it. I use wide domes with both to direct the heat downwards.

If your bulb is too low it he could be too hot and will find somewhere cooler but there may be other reasons. e.g if you are using a coiled or long thin loop cfl type of bulb these have been known to damage torts' eyes and you need to remove and replace it asap.

I have tagged @HermanniChris so that if he is available he may give you more specific advice about temps and behaviour.

 

[HermanniChris]

The issue I am seeing is the overnight heat. Hermann's tortoises need a nighttime cool down or they will normally suffer later on in life (some sooner than others). By sleeping under it at night he is almost reversing his activity pattern because he is basically basking at night. This "need to provide overnight heat" has been a very common misconception in Hermann's tortoise keeping that has surfaced a lot this past year. If your nighttime temps are not dropping below 65F at night consistently, then there is absolutely no need for nighttime heat. Start turning it off and only providing heat during the day. You should notice the tortoise starting to bask normally. Hermann's are not heat lovers and should never, ever be subjected to it constantly especially while babies. Should you insist on nighttime heat, then at least move the heat emitter further away from the animal so that it is less of a basking spot and more of a way to slightly warm the air around it. Hope this helps.

 

[Lewis12345]

Ahh that may well be the reason for his odd behaviour Chris! Thanks slot for this reassurance, I was just apprehensive that he might get too cold in the night and something terrible would happen when he woke up or that he may enter hibernation without permission haha!
I have got the new thermometer and under the basking spot is around 33 degrees c.
Tonight I'll monitor the temperature around where he sleeps without the light and see if it stays above 65F
Thanks so much!

 

[FLGirl41]

The issue I am seeing is the overnight heat. Hermann's tortoises need a nighttime cool down or they will normally suffer later on in life (some sooner than others). By sleeping under it at night he is almost reversing his activity pattern because he is basically basking at night. This "need to provide overnight heat" has been a very common misconception in Hermann's tortoise keeping that has surfaced a lot this past year. If your nighttime temps are not dropping below 65F at night consistently, then there is absolutely no need for nighttime heat. Start turning it off and only providing heat during the day. You should notice the tortoise starting to bask normally. Hermann's are not heat lovers and should never, ever be subjected to it constantly especially while babies. Should you insist on nighttime heat, then at least move the heat emitter further away from the animal so that it is less of a basking spot and more of a way to slightly warm the air around it. Hope this helps.

Hi Chris, I just wanted to make sure I'm interpreting your info correctly. Is it ok for the humid hide to cool down at night for hatchlings, as long as it remains above 65F? I was under the impression the humid hide needed to stay warm 24/7. I mentioned this in another thread but I don't want to be spreading bad information.

 

[Tom]

I can't say I've done this with hermanni, but I let my baby russians humid hides drop down to 65-70 at night. Done it that way for years and never had a problem. Their daytime basking lights are set for about 95-100F (36-37C), and on warm days they usually get some outside time too.

@HermanniChris That was a great post sir. Thank you for sharing that info with us.

 

[HermanniChris]

Thanks Tom.

The humid hide shouldn't stay that warm overnight. Technically it can drop even a bit lower than 65F for these species but to play it safe while so young, we call it at 65.

As things progress, we learn more and more about tortoise husbandry. Once upon a time "hot and dry" was the way to go but since then we've paid a little more attention to what is actually happening in nature and we've found out we were off...and in some cases way off.

I always suggest to never pamper. Provide the necessities which are really quite simple and then back away. Tortoises really require our absence most of the time after those needs are met.

 

[Anthony P]

Thanks Tom.
Provide the necessities which are really quite simple and then back away. Tortoises really require our absence most of the time after those needs are met.

This is such a good quote. Words to live by...

 

[FLGirl41]

Thanks Tom.

The humid hide shouldn't stay that warm overnight. Technically it can drop even a bit lower than 65F for these species but to play it safe while so young, we call it at 65.

As things progress, we learn more and more about tortoise husbandry. Once upon a time "hot and dry" was the way to go but since then we've paid a little more attention to what is actually happening in nature and we've found out we were off...and in some cases way off.

I always suggest to never pamper. Provide the necessities which are really quite simple and then back away. Tortoises really require our absence most of the time after those needs are met.

This is very helpful-- thank you!