Unacceptable dog breed list

[Fernando]

Hello everyone!

Most of you probably don't know this but I'm an Insurance agent for a major insurance carrier here in California and we have an "unacceptable dog breed list" or black list that we have to follow in order for us to insure prospective clients.

Here is is:

Akita
Chow Chow
Doberman Pinscher
Huskey (Eskimo dog)
Presa Canario
Rottweiler
Staffordshire Terrier (Pit bull)
Staffordshire bull terrier
Wolf hybrid
Bull Terrier (including miniature)
German shepherd

*some of our carriers will exclude a bull mastiff*

Would you agree with this list? Have you had personal experience or have heard of stories about a specific breed? Would there be a breed that you would include in this list?

I'd love to know your thoughts on this...

 

[jeffbens0n]

What kind of insurance are we talking about?

 

[Laura]

Chihuahuas bite more people, but the damage isnt as bad..

 

[Fernando]

What kind of insurance are we talking about?

I sell Homeowners Insurance, Renters Insurance, Rental Insurance, Umbrella Insurance.

---

Chihuahuas bite more people, but the damage isnt as bad..

Yeah, I'm a witness to that...but the media doesnt care unless it's bad so the Insurance company wouldn't bother taking them into account.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

I have an Insurance backround too. I was a Commercial Insurance Agent. I specialized in Large Construction. I was a Certified Workers Comp. Advisor as well. It has been my experience that you can buy out most clauses. I am pretty sure we did this with our home owners insurance when we wanted a trampoline.

Unfortunately a few dog owners that allowed specific breeds to destroy property have ruined it for the gen. Pop.

 

[Fernando]

I have an Insurance backround too. I was a Commercial Insurance Agent. I specialized in Large Construction. I was a Certified Workers Comp. Advisor as well. It has been my experience that you can buy out most clauses. I am pretty sure we did this with our home owners insurance when we wanted a trampoline.

Unfortunately a few dog owners that allowed specific breeds to destroy property have ruined it for the gen. Pop.

Yes, a trampoline is USUALLY a big "no no" for most carriers. And yes you can in most cases EXCLUDE animal liability coverage on your Homeowners Insurance. Our Renters programs don't allow you to do that, so unfortunately they would just not be accepted if they disclose the information to us =(

 

[Edna]

I'm glad my homeowners insurance carrier has a shorter list.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

It sounds a little drastic for a renters policy. After all the policy is only insuring the contents. It makes more sense to add a clause that states that the contents damaged by pet's are not covered. Too bad for the person trying to cover their bases and get a renters policy to find out that they are uninsurable because they have a dog.

 

[Jacqui]

I sell Homeowners Insurance, Renters Insurance, Rental Insurance, Umbrella Insurance.

---

Chihuahuas bite more people, but the damage isnt as bad..

Yeah, I'm a witness to that...but the media doesnt care unless it's bad so the Insurance company wouldn't bother taking them into account.

---

I am lost, what does the media have to do with it? Stupid me, I thought it would be on a more honest bases, such as in how many times does each one of these types of dogs bite or folks end up in doctors and hospitals for treatment, thus the true cost of each breed to the company.

As for the list, my thoughts are first off, it's not so much the breed but how it is raised/trained or the lack of it. Second, I have worked with Akitas, GSDs, Dobermans, Chows, Rotts, and may be only two huskies. I have not worked with, but have been around a couple of bulls (both Mastiffs and terriers) and they were all very friendly. Overall, I can honestly say, none of them have been in any way dangerous in my opinion. I can think of several smaller breeds, that I have seen some nasty tempers on and biting situations. I think part of that is folks don't tend to take the smaller dogs as seriously and they should.

 

[Fernando]

I'm glad my homeowners insurance carrier has a shorter list.

I'm almost positive the more common ones in the list are probably on your insurance carriers list too. i.e. Pitbull, Rott, Doberman, wolf

The bull mastiff and the german shepherd is usually okay with most. We have 1 or 2 carriers that won't take them.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

I think it is more claim statistics than media. A dog bite on the insured premises is a Homeowners claim. Regardless of how bad the bite, the risk of medical and legal fees is the concern.

 

[ChiKat]

Ugh that's ridiculous...ban the deed, not the breed
My mom was attacked by a Golden Retriever, why not add them to the list?

 

[Edna]

I'm glad my homeowners insurance carrier has a shorter list.

I'm almost positive the more common ones in the list are probably on your insurance carriers list too. i.e. Pitbull, Rott, Doberman, wolf

The bull mastiff and the german shepherd is usually okay with most. We have 1 or 2 carriers that won't take them.

And I appreciate the refusal to insure wolves and pit bulls (I don't think there's anything inherrantly wrong with pit bulls but they're only as safe as their owners and often that's enough said.) The insurance company's aversion to GSDs, Dobermans, Rottweilers and maybe some other listed dogs makes it seems like they (the companies) are stuck in the past. These have not been the dog-of-choice for society's most aggressive people for a long time.

 

[Fernando]

Ugh that's ridiculous...ban the deed, not the breed
My mom was attacked by a Golden Retriever, why not add them to the list?

I heard that recently. I've never had any experience w/ retrievers.

 

[APBT_Fanatic]

I fully disagree with "lists" like this in the first place. One, because this list is very discriminating. Two, because I have been growled at and snapped at more by small dogs (Chihuahuas in particular!), than any Pit Bull, Staffie, large dog, or any of the breeds in your list above... and I own Pits, rescue them, and work with them daily! I pick up strays off the street and have only been growled at by ONE Pittie, and that was after he was dumped in a parking lot by his owner, ran into a busy street and hit by a car. He let me put a leash on him and wait with him. I can not think of a small dog I have caught that did not, at one point, growl at me.

The "black list" indirectly kills more dogs in the shelters, as I (and many other rescues and shelters) have had many people looking to adopt or foster a Pittie (or Pittie mix) who lived in an apartment, etc., but come to find out (through our application screening process), they are not allowed that breed where they live.

I can see why insurance companies do this "list", because they fall into believing everything the media says, but I honestly think it is very stupid.

In regards to the comment, "but the media doesn’t care unless it's bad so the Insurance company wouldn't bother taking them into account", people get bit by dogs on a regular basis. The media only cares about and follows/reports dogs of breeds that THEY have already given a bad rap. You never see Chihuahuas, Poodles, Labs, etc. bite people on the news.... only the Pitties, German Sheps, Rotties, etc. because ignorant people have (and still continue) give them a bad name.

The level of ignorance in some people is completely baffling sometimes. So many people are uneducated when it comes to dogs, dog breeds, and aggression.

There is a small handful of insurance companies out there who DO cover Pitties, and all the breeds you have listed above. I highly commend those companies and think they should be highly supported.

 

[Fernando]

I think it is more claim statistics than media. A dog bite on the insured premises is a Homeowners claim. Regardless of how bad the bite, the risk of medical and legal fees is the concern.

Yes, the Homeowners Liability portion of their policy. And like you said regardless of how bad the damage is.

However, the media is most likely to report on dog bites that invlove really bad injuries or death. There are carriers that take the media's word for it unfortunately.

I can remember when the iPhone came out. People started calling trying to insure their expensive phone. Some carriers put that coverage on hold until they were able to figure out if they would take the risk or not...even before there had been enough statistics to properly make that decision.

So I think it's a little of both from my understanding...but of course that's what risk management departments are there for.

 

[APBT_Fanatic]

I'm glad my homeowners insurance carrier has a shorter list.

I'm almost positive the more common ones in the list are probably on your insurance carriers list too. i.e. Pitbull, Rott, Doberman, wolf

The bull mastiff and the german shepherd is usually okay with most. We have 1 or 2 carriers that won't take them.

And I appreciate the refusal to insure wolves and pit bulls (I don't think there's anything inherrantly wrong with pit bulls but they're only as safe as their owners and often that's enough said.) The insurance company's aversion to GSDs, Dobermans, Rottweilers and maybe some other listed dogs makes it seems like they (the companies) are stuck in the past. These have not been the dog-of-choice for society's most aggressive people for a long time.

Correction to your statement: ANY dog breed is ONLY as SAFE as his/her OWNER. That's not fair just to say that about Pits. Any dog, any breed, can bite, and can be trained to be aggressive.

If a dog is only as safe as their owner, how would the situation of a good owner with a friendly Pittie wanting to rent an apartment, and a horrible owner with a trained aggressive Lab wanting to rent an apartment be handled? You wouldn't allow the friendly Pit, because he's a "Pit", but the Lab is welcome because he doesn't have a "bad rap"... despite the fact he is aggressive and actually MORE of a liability.

 

[ChiKat]

Great point APBT!

 

[Edna]

Correction to your statement: ANY dog breed is ONLY as SAFE as his/her OWNER. That's not fair just to say that about Pits. Any dog, any breed, can bite, and can be trained to be aggressive.

If a dog is only as safe as their owner, how would the situation of a good owner with a friendly Pittie wanting to rent an apartment, and a horrible owner with a trained aggressive Lab wanting to rent an apartment be handled? You wouldn't allow the friendly Pit, because he's a "Pit", but the Lab is welcome because he doesn't have a "bad rap"... despite the fact he is aggressive and actually MORE of a liability.

TRUE!! I accept your correction to my statement. Any dog can be a problem.

 

[Len B]

This isn't new ,About 15 years ago we had Geico car insurance, and a different home insurance carrier, Geico called trying to get us to switch to their home owners policy, so I listened to them until they started asking about the dogs we had, when I was naming the different breeds, everything was quiet on the other end of the phone until I said Rottweiler then I heard-- Can IT BITE-- I said I have never heard of a dog that's not capable of biting.Needless to say I didn't switch home owners policies but I did find a new auto insurance carrier and will never give Geico any of my business again.I think it is SILLY and UNFAIR to pick certain breeds as bad dogs. I have a 3 year old Rottie now, one of the sweetest dogs in the world,but yes she is capable of biting, as all dogs are. Len