Unknown prolonged worry for Testudo tortoise

[feistyiguanas]

Sorry this so lengthy, I'm just trying to be thorough...

I work at a pet store and have been extra concerned for a male Russian Testudo tortoise, especially over the past 1-2 months. He is likely 2-3 years old has been so very unlucky. He was housed in a 20-ish gallon terrarium (our biggest sales floor terrarium for them, because we just don't expect animals to stay with us for long) along with a female his age for over a year. Someone bought both of them for Christmas, then shortly returned him after they read into keeping two tortoises. At that point our supplier had already been notified we needed 2 more tortoises. So at one point we had three. The two new ones got sold pretty quickly after, somehow, which is crazy since it took this tortoise and the female over a year. (Also for some reason people weren't into this slightly larger, much less shy tortoise who had been used to us handling him for so long. He even comes out of his shell immediately after being picked up, and lets us touch his head and legs... but I digress.)

But more recently he's been having some troubles health-wise. A month ago I ran him to our quarantine room after I discovered him sitting limp under his log with puffy, closed, and leaky eyes. He was taken to the vet a couple days later. They found he had pinworms, and we treated that. But he is still having odd symptoms with his eyes and his activity. Below are 2 photos I took AFTER the day I FIRST put him in quarantine, after which his eyes seemed to clear up but remained a bit puffy. They were taken a month ago, while just held in my hand and then during a warm soak which we still give him each day, and he still looks the same now. At one point he was transferred back out onto the floor, but the next day his eyes were closed and leaky again. Even while in quarantine his eyes still go through phases of such irritation from time to time. Aside from his eyes, my coworker and I deeply feel that something is off with him and we don't know what, or what can be done, aside from giving him better living conditions which we just can't do right now. Our manager has not scheduled another vet visit after his pinworms were treated and his issues proceeded. I want to be able to voice what might actually be wrong with him, so it can get checked, and he can go back to the sales floor and find a home. (I'd sincerely take him if I had a yard, but I don't right now.)

I don't know how quality these pictures are to be able to tell, but his eyelids definitely seem more squinted/puffy in comparison to the same tortoises I've looked up images for, and in comparison to how I remember he looked awhile back. He's also mostly lethargic, but that might be because we only have a 20 gallon to keep him in, and he's just... not happy in general, and hasn't been for over a year due to circumstances? Please, any input would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to keep writing "no treatment" with his same symptoms on his charts any longer.

So far, because while he's kept off the sales floor no one else can take him, I think his only salvation is if he's kept here until August 1st when I move into a house with a yard I'd keep him in. But I REALLY don't want him to have to wait that long. My current apartment is already packed a bit tight with other animals.

I just want this animal to be as comfortable as can be while he's trapped where he is...
Thank you so much for any input.

 

[squirrelkitty]

Could you maybe pay a deposit to reserve him and take him to your new house in August?
Or you could by him now and build him an indoor enclosure until August.

 

[Tom]

Let me start with: Hello and welcome! I'm so glad you are here to learn. After spending some time here and talking with us, you'll be a better source of info for all your customers. I worked in retail pets for 8 years, plus a year of wholesale back in the 80s and 90s, and I still work with a lot of pet stores with my current career too, so I have some understanding of the dynamics there.

Start here for the correct care info. You may find your clue about what is going on in these threads:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

Time for a bit of sleuthing. I'll list the common causes of eye issues and you can see if one or more fits.

• Vitamin A deficiency. If this is the case, some dietary adjustments and/or some carrot baby food soaks can often solve the problem.
• Dry dusty substrate can irritate their eyes. Their substrate should always be slightly damp, but never "wet".
• Mechanical injury. Sometimes they get poked in the eye by a sharp pice of substrate or by the nails of another tortoise. Usually this will only affect one eye at a time.
• Stress. They should never live as a pair. They should never be kept in a tiny enclosure. An adult Russian needs a minimum of 4x8 feet of space. I understand how pet stores work, but 20 gallons is too small even if its only for a couple of weeks. When it drags into months, it creates problems. If the store is unwilling or unable to house them in something large, and set a better example for the customers, then they really shouldn't sell them. Suggest to the management the a list of local breeders be posted, and that you can make much better money on selling large enclosures and dry goods to support the purchase of the animal directly from the breeder. I've made this arrangement with several pet stores. They recommend me for a tortoise purchase and in return I send the customer back to them for supplements, UV lighting and other pet specific supplies.
• What type of UV bulb are they under. Pet stores typically use cfl type florescent UV bulbs. These are bad for two reasons: 1.) if you put a UV meter under one of them, you'll see they are ineffective UV sources. 2.) Some of them damage tortoises eyes. The obvious next question would be: Why is only this one tortoise affected? Because as you said, he is bold and unafraid. More outgoing than the others. Most recently imported Russians are shy and spend a lot of time hiding. Having their eyes closed, or their head tucked into a corner, reduces their exposure to these bulbs in comparison to your little guy there that walks around under the bulb more often because he's acclimated to the environment.
• Do the tortoise have a place to bask and warm up during the day? They need to be able to get their body temp up to around 100f during the day.
• Are you guys using one of those red pet store bulbs over them? In time these colored bulbs mess with their heads and disturb their circadian rhythms. Chronic stress and the gradual hampering of the immune system could certainly manifest in the eye issue you are seeing.

Let me know what you think. Questions and conversation are welcome.

He's showing signs of new growth, and the soaks are immensely beneficial, so those are two good signs.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome!

I just wanted to explain why we ask for your location during the sign up process: Caring for turtles and tortoises is geographic-specific. What works for me here in Central California may not be the same things you need to do to reach the same goals in, for instance, Timbuctoo. We don't need to have your specific address, but it is helpful to us to know a general area where you live in order to give you the best information on caring for your tortoise.

This isn't as important to you right now because you're looking for indoor care.

 

[TammyJ]

Welcome and thanks for caring for this tortoise. Please follow closely all that Tom and Yvonne are saying - they are very very experienced and they care too!