UPDATED PHOTOS AND GROWTH CHART ON IVORY AND NORMAL BABIES...COMMENTS WELCOME!

[DeanS]

OK! For Rebekah (and everyone else who's requested this)...this is the latest up-to-date info regarding the development of my four sulcata babies...including now and then shots of the ivories to show the stagnation of pyramiding in both.

I am including now only photos of the normal phase (Climber and Jimmy), because they NEVER showed signs of pyramiding because I've had them since they were 4 weeks old...as opposed to the ivory babies (Eggroll and Snowflake) that were already 2 months old when I acquired them...and were already showing signs of pyramiding...although Eggroll was pyramiding at a much faster rate.

Here is my growth chart...I don't really care about these things...I only care about keeping these guys healthy...as you can see, I did the first back in April and my second today...and there is no mistake, I did not weigh anyone today.

Tortoise Measurements 27 April 2010


Aladar (8 years) 18" 30 lbs

Eggroll (5 months) 2.75" 3 oz

Climber (9 months) 2.75" 3 oz

Jimmy (9 months) 2.5" 2 oz

Snowflake (5 months) 2.5" 2 oz


14 December 2010

Aladar (8 years) 19"

Eggroll (13 months) 3"

Climber (17 months) 3.5"

Jimmy (17 months) 2.75"

Snowflake (13 months) 2.625"

Climber today

Jimmy today

Eggroll (right) and Snowflake (left) the day I acquired them...March 2010

Eggroll today

Snowflake today

Of course, with Eggroll, it looks like there's going to be a mate for Aladar...SOMEDAY

 

[Nofx]

Very nice torts! I like the Jimmy picture

One question: In the picture where is just Snowflake, it seams like his lower beak is deformed. Am I mistaking?

Niko

 

[DeanS]

Very nice torts! I like the Jimmy picture

One question: In the picture where is just Snowflake, it seams like his lower beak is deformed. Am I mistaking?

Niko

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Tough-Road-For-Snowflake?highlight=snowflake

Also...pay no attention to the 11 month old comment...I don't know where my head was at. I type fast and rarely (if ever) proofread.

 

[Nofx]

Poor guy, i didn't know. Now he looks in good, no...great shape! Good work!

The same thing happened to me once, when my russian and leopard where outside, and in the water pool was blood everywhere!
My russian was covered in blood and my leo was clean..I was just..ok wait a min, the little guy attack'd the big guy..no way!
I cleaned the russian, he was fine, and then i gave another look to the leo. Allso fine.
Who was the murder and who was the killer?..well..there was one more guy in the crime scene!
I think it went like this: The russian was drinking and my cat got at him, and the russian snapped off one of his nails. I fount his nail near the crime scene..and well, we got the cat with one nail missing
Talk about retrieving into there shell when attacked!..haha

Sory for the long story, i just wanted it to share it with you.

Niko

 

[moswen]

oh little snowflake's beak still makes me so sad! i'm really glad to hear that eggroll is close to moswen's size, moswen is possibly 6 mos. older than him and 1/4 inch larger. and their pyramiding looks just the same! snowflake looks like she has a lot less growth rings though, and she's a lot smaller! and jimmy is a lot smaller than climber. why do you think that is?

 

[DeanS]

I suspect the trauma Snowflake endured really encumbered his/her natural defenses...and in Jimmy's situation...he had a little cold about a week after I got him...that's when I introduced them to the MVB...of course he didn't recuperate overnight, but he didn't have to deal with an invasive vet, either

 

[Az tortoise compound]

I am not sure how I missed this thread....They look to be coming along great. They are growing smoothly and slowly as they should. Maybe a tad slower than what we see in AZ but that could be due to the difference in environment when outside or other factors.

Dean, What sex do you think each sully is? Could it be one male and three females? Maybe that's why climber is growing a little quicker, males tend to be the first ones to wake, first out of the hide, first to the food and the last to sleep.

I would also bet that snowflakes injury will keep him/her the smallest of the bunch as time goes on...it must limit the intake of food even if only a tad. Obviously not dramatically but a little I would assume.

Overall, they are awesome and I am jealous. I have yet to have the privilege of watching an Ivory Sully roam our yard

 

[Yvonne G]

Your babies are looking great. I love the ivories. I appreciate that you continue to show us their progress.

 

[DeanS]

I am not sure how I missed this thread....They look to be coming along great. They are growing smoothly and slowly as they should. Maybe a tad slower than what we see in AZ but that could be due to the difference in environment when outside or other factors.

Dean, What sex do you think each sully is? Could it be one male and three females? Maybe that's why climber is growing a little quicker, males tend to be the first ones to wake, first out of the hide, first to the food and the last to sleep.

I would also bet that snowflakes injury will keep him/her the smallest of the bunch as time goes on...it must limit the intake of food even if only a tad. Obviously not dramatically but a little I would assume.

Overall, they are awesome and I am jealous. I have yet to have the privilege of watching an Ivory Sully roam our yard

Mick...if you ever find your way to my neck of the woods, you need to drop by and see Aladar. You would go nuts! His personality and locomotion are addictive!

 

[Az tortoise compound]

I am not sure how I missed this thread....They look to be coming along great. They are growing smoothly and slowly as they should. Maybe a tad slower than what we see in AZ but that could be due to the difference in environment when outside or other factors.

Dean, What sex do you think each sully is? Could it be one male and three females? Maybe that's why climber is growing a little quicker, males tend to be the first ones to wake, first out of the hide, first to the food and the last to sleep.

I would also bet that snowflakes injury will keep him/her the smallest of the bunch as time goes on...it must limit the intake of food even if only a tad. Obviously not dramatically but a little I would assume.

Overall, they are awesome and I am jealous. I have yet to have the privilege of watching an Ivory Sully roam our yard

Mick...if you ever find your way to my neck of the woods, you need to drop by and see Aladar. You would go nuts! His personality and locomotion are addictive!

Absolutely! How far from Norwalk, CA are you?

 

[DeanS]

I am not sure how I missed this thread....They look to be coming along great. They are growing smoothly and slowly as they should. Maybe a tad slower than what we see in AZ but that could be due to the difference in environment when outside or other factors.

Dean, What sex do you think each sully is? Could it be one male and three females? Maybe that's why climber is growing a little quicker, males tend to be the first ones to wake, first out of the hide, first to the food and the last to sleep.

I would also bet that snowflakes injury will keep him/her the smallest of the bunch as time goes on...it must limit the intake of food even if only a tad. Obviously not dramatically but a little I would assume.

Overall, they are awesome and I am jealous. I have yet to have the privilege of watching an Ivory Sully roam our yard

Mick...if you ever find your way to my neck of the woods, you need to drop by and see Aladar. You would go nuts! His personality and locomotion are addictive!

Absolutely! How far from Norwalk, CA are you?

90 miles north!

 

[Tom]

Since you're a big boy and your my friend, I'll just speak frankly and honestly. Climber and Jimmy look great. Eggroll's new growth is coming in smoother. I suspect she'll look similar to Daisy in a few years, but probably a little better since she wasn't as bad as Daisy and you caught it sooner. I'm pleasantly surprised at how much better Daisy is looking. I won't be surprised if she turns out pretty good in a few years. I would not have said that a few months ago. Anyway, I think Eggroll will look just fine as an adult. Remember, even RV looked similar that at two years old. Putting them outside seems to work the magic. RV only started burrowing two years ago, so that is NOT what smoothed her out.

Snowflake's growth rings look a little weird. They are bigger and swollen looking around the bottom. I don't know what that means or what to do about it. Just noting it as an oddity. She looks good other than that. I'm curious to know if that jawline will grow back.

They are all growing pretty slowly. If that is your goal, you are succeeding. All of my sulcatas, prior to my newest hatchlings, grew at about that rate. You know, of course, that my new babies are growing like crazy. They are 7.5-8.8 ounces, 200-250 grams, at just under 7 months old.

I'm no longer an advocate of all that "slow growth" stuff. I used to be, but now I know better. If conditions are "optimal", there is nothing wrong with "optimal" growth. I'm not advocating FAST growth and I'm not trying for fast growth, its just what I'm getting with normal feeding in "optimal" conditions. By optimal, I mean hot and wet all the time, with lots of sun, Ca, and exercise, but I'm pretty sure you already know that.

I've talked to a few people about "natural" growth and periods of feast and famine like they experience in the wild. My point is that just because they are able to, SURVIVE "less than Optimal" conditions, doesn't mean we ought to intentionally subject them to it. I hear the same thing about my camel. Sure they can survive a long time with no water. But it doesn't HELP them to do it. Also, light feedings, skipping days and a very low protein diet, did NOTHING to stop my older ones from pyramiding. They just didn't grow much. So now I have 45 pound, pyramided, 12 year old sulcatas.

 

[egyptiandan]

Eggroll looks like a female to me Dean

Danny

 

[DeanS]

Since you're a big boy and your my friend, I'll just speak frankly and honestly. Climber and Jimmy look great. Eggroll's new growth is coming in smoother. I suspect she'll look similar to Daisy in a few years, but probably a little better since she wasn't as bad as Daisy and you caught it sooner. I'm pleasantly surprised at how much better Daisy is looking. I won't be surprised if she turns out pretty good in a few years. I would not have said that a few months ago. Anyway, I think Eggroll will look just fine as an adult. Remember, even RV looked similar that at two years old. Putting them outside seems to work the magic. RV only started burrowing two years ago, so that is NOT what smoothed her out.

Snowflake's growth rings look a little weird. They are bigger and swollen looking around the bottom. I don't know what that means or what to do about it. Just noting it as an oddity. She looks good other than that. I'm curious to know if that jawline will grow back.

They are all growing pretty slowly. If that is your goal, you are succeeding. All of my sulcatas, prior to my newest hatchlings, grew at about that rate. You know, of course, that my new babies are growing like crazy. They are 7.5-8.8 ounces, 200-250 grams, at just under 7 months old.

I'm no longer an advocate of all that "slow growth" stuff. I used to be, but now I know better. If conditions are "optimal", there is nothing wrong with "optimal" growth. I'm not advocating FAST growth and I'm not trying for fast growth, its just what I'm getting with normal feeding in "optimal" conditions. By optimal, I mean hot and wet all the time, with lots of sun, Ca, and exercise, but I'm pretty sure you already know that.

I've talked to a few people about "natural" growth and periods of feast and famine like they experience in the wild. My point is that just because they are able to, SURVIVE "less than Optimal" conditions, doesn't mean we ought to intentionally subject them to it. I hear the same thing about my camel. Sure they can survive a long time with no water. But it doesn't HELP them to do it. Also, light feedings, skipping days and a very low protein diet, did NOTHING to stop my older ones from pyramiding. They just didn't grow much. So now I have 45 pound, pyramided, 12 year old sulcatas.

Thanks Tom! I like honesty! I expect honesty! I agree with everything you say here! When I said comments welcome...I was inviting critiques, as well!

---

Eggroll looks like a female to me Dean

Danny

Thanks Danny! I know the anal scute isn't always a telltale sign...but with her I thought it was a little too obvious not to be true! I am going to post the other three...just to be sure. I'm 99.9% sure Climber is a boy...but the other two have tiny tails so you're gonna have to be the early judge here

 

[DeanS]

Also...as of Tuesday, I started Eggroll on Olive oil therapy...Yvonne's dabblings made me curious, so I apply with a Q-tip right after soaking...figuring the warm water would make her carapace more supple and ready to make the most of the oil...which I work in really well...we'll see how that goes!