Urgent help needed! (Shell rot then escaped)

[Quinnie]

Ok, so since about 2 weeks ago or so I've been treating Quinn for mild shell rot. It wasn't that bad.

But then, 6 days ago he escaped his enclosure. We still have no idea how. There was no sign of any struggle (besides the mesh top lifting off the side) and there wasn't any obvious way for him to escape. (Besides the mesh being open. But there's a 7 inch straight up wall between the substrate and the lip of the wall that he'd have to climb out of) (Our most logical theory is that my dog picked him up and and dropped him on the ground but even this doesn't make tons of sense.)



We had zero hope that he was going to show up. We thought he was completely gone and most likely dead.
But this morning our neighbor called us saying he found him. We got him back but there's a major problem.

His shell rot is much much worse.
Since we weren't able to treat it long enough since he escaped ...it's bad bad now. Mushy, white, bad smelling holes on the bottom of the shell. Part of the shell seems eroded. Like the patterning on his plastron has been scraped off. Also on the top of the shell it's just some small white patches and part of the shell edge looks chipped.

Also.... I'm pretty sure he has SCUD. He has a red spot on his plastron. But like under the shell. It's small but it seems to have a small cut or bump on it.

He is eating, he's not lethargic, and everything else looks good besides the shell.


The vet is not able to see us until Monday. Which is two days away still.
We made the appt. But I am so worried. I know SCUD kills very quickly.

Should we take him to the exotic vet emergency room? It's an hour away and will cost a ton. We are willing to but it's last resort.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Shell fungus is relatively common and it's easy to treat.
Shell rot is not fungus. It's a microbial infection and is uncommon. It's more difficult to treat and will need a veterinarians help. This may have been started by an injury of some kind. But it sounds exactly as you've described.
This sounds serious and it sounds like something I would not attempt to treat myself.
Can you supply photos?

 

[wellington]

Can you post pics. We can better help if we can see what we are trying to help you with.
@Yvonne G

 

[Quinnie]

Can you post pics. We can better help if we can see what we are trying to help you with.
@Yvonne G

Oh I'm sorry I do not get notifications ! I will post a photo now! The vet appt. Is in a few hours

 

[wellington]

Shell fungus is relatively common and it's easy to treat.
Shell rot is not fungus. It's a microbial infection and is uncommon. It's more difficult to treat and will need a veterinarians help. This may have been started by an injury of some kind. But it sounds exactly as you've described.
This sounds serious and it sounds like something I would not attempt to treat myself.
Can you supply photos?

Shell rot is what we always recommend athletes foot cream and/or antibiotic cream for? The forum very seldom recommends a vet for shell rot. Not that I have ever seen. Maybe we are thinking two different things that we call shell rot?

 

[Quinnie]

Here are some photos! Most of the issues are shell rot I believe, but we do think it's like very very likely that my neighbors dogs (he has 3 adult labs, and 7 lab puppies) could've bitten him or nipped him. We also think he could've fallen or injured himself.
The red spot has actually seemed to dull since I posted this. Definitely hasn't spread or gotten worse.
Is it possible the spot is just bruising or remains of an injury?
Im still concerned it's SCUD..

Also the last picture in which I've circled a few spots is confusing me. It seems like there are many red spots but only the one main one is visible in person and on the other photos. Maybe I am making things up out of worry. I sure hope so....

 

[Quinnie]

Shell rot is what we always recommend athletes foot cream and/or antibiotic cream for? The forum very seldom recommends a vet for shell rot. Not that I have ever seen. Maybe we are thinking two different things that we call shell rot?

Lol thank you. That's what I thought but I didn't want to respond for fear of being wrong. I think this person is thinking of something else. (I have only seen "use Antibiotic cream and if it doesn't help after a whole go to vet")

 

[wellington]

Oh I'm sorry I do not get notifications ! I will post a photo now! The vet appt. Is in a few hours

Be careful with the vet. Question everything and dont let them treat for something they have not tested for. Many treat for parasites but never ran the stool test.
Shell rot is usually cleared up by keeping the area clean and applying antibiotic cream. Do this for a week or so and if you see no improvements then switch to athletes foot cream. Which ever one works use at least once daily cleaning the area with water and applying cream. Do this until its cleared up.

 

[Quinnie]

I just realized there was an ant on him in the picture. It has been killed

 

[Quinnie]

Be careful with the vet. Question everything and dont let them treat for something they have not tested for. Many treat for parasites but never ran the stool test.
Shell rot is usually cleared up by keeping the area clean and applying antibiotic cream. Do this for a week or so and if you see no improvements then switch to athletes foot cream. Which ever one works use at least once daily cleaning the area with water and applying cream. Do this until its cleared up.

This is what I've been doing for the shell rot! It's the red spots we are most concerned about! But the rot has gotten significantly worse since before he went missing. Previously it was 2 tiny little dents.

 

[wellington]

Did the shell issues improve before he went missing? If so keep treating. None of it looks that bad to me. It might be worse then what it was but doesn't look all that bad over all.
On the red spots try antibiotic cream.

 

[Quinnie]

Did the shell issues improve before he went missing? If so keep treating. None of it looks that bad to me. It might be worse then what it was but doesn't look all that bad over all.
On the red spots try antibiotic cream.

Yeah! They were improving. We'd only been treating for about a week but one of them was almost completely covered over? Scabbed over? I don't know the right word.
The more I look at it, the more I think all the injuries on the top of the shell were from dogs, especially the bite mark taken out of his shell 😭 (it's not bad, just looks nibbled on, no blood or fallen scutes). The two big ones on the plastron are exactly where the small spots were. They've just gotten worse!

I have used antibiotics cream plus chlorhexidine on the wounds and rot including the red spots!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Shell rot is what we always recommend athletes foot cream and/or antibiotic cream for? The forum very seldom recommends a vet for shell rot. Not that I have ever seen. Maybe we are thinking two different things that we call shell rot?

To me. They are two very different issues. One being fungal and topical and the other being an infection with rotting tissue. Often deep into the tissue and with missing shell.
An Antifungal cream will do nothing if what is needed is actually an antibiotic.
That's why when I see the term SHELL ROT, I try to correct it by saying that an Antifungal cream is excellent against shell fungus.
It is probably totally ineffective against a real case of shell rot. And likewise. Shell fungus doesn't require a vet. With shell rot, I would immediately rinse the area with iodine and water and make the first vet visit a can schedule.
Shell fungus seems to be what we see about 95% of the time. Maybe even more. Shell rot is very rare.
These are my observations and my thoughts. Please point out anything that I may have overlooked because I really just want to help.
Thinking about a keeper squirting Athletes foot cream into a festering infected wound is unsettling.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Yeah! They were improving. We'd only been treating for about a week but one of them was almost completely covered over? Scabbed over? I don't know the right word.
The more I look at it, the more I think all the injuries on the top of the shell were from dogs, especially the bite mark taken out of his shell 😭 (it's not bad, just looks nibbled on, no blood or fallen scutes). The two big ones on the plastron are exactly where the small spots were. They've just gotten worse!

I have used antibiotics cream plus chlorhexidine on the wounds and rot including the red spots!

That's an excellent idea.
I'm so pleased to read that.
This is not a condition that requires athletes foot cream.

 

[Quinnie]

To me. They are two very different issues. One being fungal and topical and the other being an infection with rotting tissue. Often deep into the tissue and with missing shell.
An Antifungal cream will do nothing if what is needed is actually an antibiotic.
That's why when I see the term SHELL ROT, I try to correct it by saying that an Antifungal cream is excellent against shell fungus.
It is probably totally ineffective against a real case of shell rot. And likewise. Shell fungus doesn't require a vet. With shell rot, I would immediately rinse the area with iodine and water and make the first vet visit a can schedule.
Shell fungus seems to be what we see about 95% of the time. Maybe even more. Shell rot is very rare.
These are my observations and my thoughts. Please point out anything that I may have overlooked because I really just want to help.
Thinking about a keeper squirting Athletes foot cream into a festering infected wound is unsettling.

I understand what you're saying now, but I still dont know the science behind it lol. Thanks for explaining your thoughts!

 

[Quinnie]

That's an excellent idea.
I'm so pleased to read that.
This is not a condition that requires athletes foot cream.

I wasn't going to use athletes cream anyway..I don't have any plus it needs antibiotics..

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I understand what you're saying now, but I still dont know the science behind it lol. Thanks for explaining your thoughts!

I'm going to post a new thread on this matter and invite a discussion amongst the members.

 

[Quinnie]

I'm going to post a new thread on this matter and invite a discussion amongst the members.

Thanks! I'll keep an eye out for it

 

[wellington]

To me. They are two very different issues. One being fungal and topical and the other being an infection with rotting tissue. Often deep into the tissue and with missing shell.
An Antifungal cream will do nothing if what is needed is actually an antibiotic.
That's why when I see the term SHELL ROT, I try to correct it by saying that an Antifungal cream is excellent against shell fungus.
It is probably totally ineffective against a real case of shell rot. And likewise. Shell fungus doesn't require a vet. With shell rot, I would immediately rinse the area with iodine and water and make the first vet visit a can schedule.
Shell fungus seems to be what we see about 95% of the time. Maybe even more. Shell rot is very rare.
These are my observations and my thoughts. Please point out anything that I may have overlooked because I really just want to help.
Thinking about a keeper squirting Athletes foot cream into a festering infected wound is unsettling.

I guess to me you are putting more into it then what we are seeing here and what the forum has always, that I remember, referred to as shell rot. Every shell rot question I remember seeing is what most have called shell rot and instructed the cream.
I have seen some that looked more nasty like what you kinda described, but usually it's been caused by something else other then shell rot or shell rot that has gone on for so long it has eaten into all layers of the shell. At that point, it's no longer really considered shell rot.
On this forum, what has always been called shell rot is not rare at all.

 

[Quinnie]

Update: Vet appointment over!

Vet said it was most likely trauma, probably a dog bite, (which we suspected) that caused all of the issues.

She debrided the two main spots and one goes down to the bone...which makes her think it's a dog bite due to shell rot not doing that as often especially not this quickly.

She said the red spot did not look like SCUD and that it would take much longer than it's been for him to go septic.

She was not really worried at all.

We have a prescription for Silvadine and a months worth of antibiotic injections!