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URGENT!

Discussion in 'Tortoise Health' started by Ihsan, Sep 7, 2019.

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  1. Ihsan

    Ihsan New Member

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    My leopard tortoise is 3 years old and has been healthy and super active all these years. Lately, I've noticed that it stopped moving around the enclosure, it barely turns left or right. It is even sleeping in the same place (not taking a corner or going into her hiding spot anymore). I can see that it's trying to move but for some reason, its legs aren't strong enough. It also barely eats and is not pooping anymore.

    Ever since I got it I kept spoiling her with care. I give plenty of food daily (mostly greens and carrots) with calcium twice a week, I soak her at least 3 days a week. I keep her enclosure warm. I always clean the enclosure and replaced the Zoo Med Reptile Bark Fir Bedding at least once a month. There's a sulcata with her (less than 2 years old) at the same enclosure (with her since the beginning so it couldn't contract some disease or parasite).

    I have separated her now from the sulcata so that it can take its time when eating (or else the sulcata would eat her food!). I'm really lost I don't know what's going on. If anyone knows what's going on or what to do to get her back to health please help.
  2. Lyn W

    Lyn W Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi firstly you should never mix species, even if they are healthy they are carriers of different pathogens that could infect another. species.
    Secondly torts shouldn't be kept in pairs. One usually becomes dominant and will bully the other even though you may not notice anything happening.
    Following, staring, hogging the food and best basking spot and trying to push the other away by nudging are all examples of bullying behaviours and could cause stress which could result in illness. The one on the receiving end will be having a pretty miserable life. Eventually the behaviour becomes more aggressive - barging, biting and trying to flip the other over etc. These can result in serious injury to the shell and/or soft tissues and even death. So now you have separated them please keep them separated. They will both be much happier, they do not like company or competition.

    Can you post a picture of where they have been living and let us know what uvb, basking and night heat you provide with their temperature ranges - that will help members spot anything that could be causing this problem.
  3. Markw84

    Markw84 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club

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    We would need to know more to help you.

    Where are you located? Your climate is a beginning point to evaluate enclosures.
    What are the temps of the enclosure? "Warm" tells us nothing. What is the warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?
    What type of substrate do you have? Is the Fir bedding over the entire area? How large is the enclosure?
    The diet sounds like it needs work. Carrots are not a good food in quantity. Extremely high levels of vitamin A that can lead to overdose as tortoises don't get that extreme levels normally. A stone (urolith) can also be an issue with diet, temp and exercise room and could cause the symptoms.
    How big is your leopard tortoise and do you know the sex? Same question about the sulcata you keep with it.
    A picture of the enclosure and the two tortoises would be very helpful.
    Tom, Lyn W, ZEROPILOT and 2 others like this.
  4. Lyn W

    Lyn W Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Any more info available for us to help you and your tort?
    You sounded really concerned, so the sooner we know more the better the chance your tort has of recovering.
    TammyJ likes this.
  5. Ihsan

    Ihsan New Member

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    Thank you all for the replies. I live in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, so basically there's no need for a basking area since it's super hot all the time ( never gets below 110 F day or night). I keep the enclosure in a room with a window (without AC), so it gets some sun at least 2 hours a day. I don't have a full pic of the enclosure (just a small part of it), I have discarded it lately since I'm concerned that there's some sort of bacteria or parasite. Today it ate a bit of tomato but stopped eating again. Any ideas? :(

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  6. TammyJ

    TammyJ Well-Known Member

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    Hey Lyn W. You are very much needed here! There is so much that needs to be changed so please try to help...you know best! It seems they are much too hot and dry, for one thing....!
    Lyn W likes this.
  7. Lyn W

    Lyn W Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    From what I can see of your enclosure it looks to be on the small side even for one tort.
    4 x 8 feet is the recommended minimum for an adult of the smaller species but with the larger species the bigger the better. Torts need space to roam and be active and to aid their digestion.
    You obviously want to help your tort so please read this caresheet which will benefit both species and make any necessary changes to your set up - if there is anything you need clarified then please ask more questions.
    https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/
    It will tell you all about diet, temps, humidity and recommended substrate etc.
    https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/ will also help

    As Mark said carrots are not a good regular food (and chunks can be a choking hazard) neither are tomatoes or fruit because they can't cope with the sugars in their digestive systems. Some very thin (almost transparent) slices of cucumber may help with hydration at the moment and if he is constipated it can have a laxative effect but there is little nutritional value in it so it shouldn't be fed often.
    www.thetortoisetable.org.uk is a good guide to tort safe foods which you have available, and what to be wary of.

    While he isn't eating it is important you keep him hydrated so maybe soak him everyday. Does he pass urates when he pees in his soak? If so what are they like?
    Do you know how hot the enclosure gets when in the sun?
    What do you use to monitor temps and humidity?
    Do they spend any time outside? Torts need uvb in order to absorb nutrients etc, you may not need a source of uvb if they do, but it is diluted through glass. Obviously they shouldn't be left in full sun.
    I keep a leopard in the uk climate and my challenges with temps and uvb etc are very different to yours, so maybe @Tom can offer better advice on keeping them in your climate, but meanwhile please read the links.
  8. Lyn W

    Lyn W Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Thanks for your vote of confidence Tammy, but I wouldn't say that I know best - I'm still a beginner compared to many others!
    There are a few changes needed and I can only pass on what I have learned and hope that the far more experienced keepers who have helped me keep my tort happy and healthy can join in.
  9. Ihsan

    Ihsan New Member

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  10. Lyn W

    Lyn W Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Yes he definitely needs a direct uvb source to absorb the calcium but the sort you have ordered is not recommended because they can damage tort eyes as do coiled type bulbs. Fixtures with tubes are generally recommended. UVB is reduced through glass or plastic etc.
    Do you have an outside space? If you have a warm sunny climate short supervised spells outside will help, but make sure they are in secure container/enclosures with a cover to stop predators. Do not leave out for long in high temps or without any shade. Some people use things like kiddies paddling pools with some mesh on the top. I believe you only need a couple of hours per week outside but hopefully @Tom or @Yvonne can expand on that.
    The sooner you can start uvb the better.
    This is what Tom says about UVB on the caresheet.....
    UV:
    Tortoises MUST have regular exposure to the right kind of UV rays. Real sunshine is best, but be careful. Shade should always be available as babies can overheat and die surprisingly quickly. If your tortoise can get some regular sunning time in a safe outdoor enclosure, even just a couple of times a week for most of the year, you don't need any artificial UV. Its okay if you have to skip two or three weeks of sunning time during a cold winter spell. If you live somewhere with long frozen winters, then some artificial UV might be in order for that time of year.............. Long florescent UV tubes seem to work okay too nowadays..............I recommend against any type of coil or cfl UV bulb. I have personally seen these cause eye issues too many times. More research is needed to find out exactly what the problem with the cfl UV bulbs is, but there is no denying that there is a problem at least some of the time.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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