Weight Gain

[AAS2018]

My Russian Tortoise has been tube fed for the last 7 weeks, however in that time his weight has fluctuated quite a bit and he is only 10g heavier than the first week (currently 654g). I’m confused because we’ve been feeding him twice a day via the tube and he has also been eating on his own.
We are back at the vets tomorrow and I expect he’ll undergo more tests, but any advise would be appreciated so I have a bit more of an understanding.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Why was the tube originally installed? What food do you use for tube feeding? What is their normal weight? Is your tortoise male or female?

Usually when a tortoise starts eating on their own the tube isn't needed anymore.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Why did the tort stop eating in the first place? I've kept torts for almost 20 years and never needed that treatment, especially when the animal is eating on his own. In England was it a temperature thing? Has TFO been with you since then?

 

[AAS2018]

Why was the tube originally installed? What food do you use for tube feeding? What is their normal weight? Is your tortoise male or female?

Usually when a tortoise starts eating on their own the tube isn't needed anymore.

The tube was installed to give medication, we did a course of antibiotics via injection but he still didn’t improve so went with the tube. We stopped the antibiotics 2 weeks ago but the vet wanted to give another 2 weeks of reduced tube feeding to try and get his weight up.

A male tortoise, 6 years old.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Just saying, depending on the size 654g is a good weight for a 6 year old male. What is the length of his bottom shell front to back (start of the neck to start of the tail)? Could you send us some photos of him (in terms of determining if he is of a healthy weight)?

Also, what were his symptoms/his diagnosis that required antibiotics? This might also have to do with his weight gain.

 

[AAS2018]

Just saying, depending on the size 654g is a good weight for a 6 year old male. What is the length of his bottom shell front to back (start of the neck to start of the tail)? Could you send us some photos of him (in terms of determining if he is of a healthy weight)?

Also, what were his symptoms/his diagnosis that required antibiotics? This might also have to do with his weight gain.

He was diagnosed with Mycoplasma. Over the Christmas period his temperature dropped and it took a few days to fix. In April we noticed a red line on his shell, took him to the vet where he had bloods taken and a first course of antibiotics. He had a reduced appetite so we went with a feeding tube to give the medication as well as food.

His shell size is 19cm and the chart the vet gave us as an indication for his weight suggests he’s severely under. The vet also referred to him as anorexic.

 

[AAS2018]

Why did the tort stop eating in the first place? I've kept torts for almost 20 years and never needed that treatment, especially when the animal is eating on his own. In England was it a temperature thing? Has TFO been with you since then?

Yes in the UK and the temperature dropped over Christmas and it was a good few days until it was stable.
He’s never been a massive eater so can’t say I noticed his reduced appetite. We were feeding him dried pellets along with fresh food and he always opted for the pellets. the vet said these were really bad for tortoises so we stopped and he’s never really taken to the fresh weeds as well. He needs a lot of encouragement whereas the pellets he will go back to throughout the day on his own.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Yes in the UK and the temperature dropped over Christmas and it was a good few days until it was stable.
He’s never been a massive eater so can’t say I noticed his reduced appetite. We were feeding him dried pellets along with fresh food and he always opted for the pellets. the vet said these were really bad for tortoises so we stopped and he’s never really taken to the fresh weeds as well. He needs a lot of encouragement whereas the pellets he will go back to throughout the day on his own.

Maybe you could find more healthy pellets for him to eat? I have found Agrobs great, they have over 60 different plants in them so they have variety. Their Ca : P ratio is good and they are high in fiber, low in protein.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

His shell size is 19cm and the chart the vet gave us as an indication for his weight suggests he’s severely under. The vet also referred to him as anorexic.

Was mycoplasma diagnosed via a blood test or nose discharge test? Mycoplasma symptoms come and go through the life of a carrier tortoise. Is he exhibiting any other symptoms besides slow weight gain?

As far as I know there really isn't a reliable chart for Russian tortoises. The closest to one is the McIntyre ratio.

Anorexia in tortoises usually means that the tortoise is sick and refuses to eat.

@Tom or @Yvonne G should be able to help you further in terms of your weight concerns. @zovick knows more about mycoplasma than me.

 

[AAS2018]

Was mycoplasma diagnosed via a blood test or nose discharge test? Mycoplasma symptoms come and go through the life of a carrier tortoise. Is he exhibiting any other symptoms besides slow weight gain?

As far as I know there really isn't a reliable chart for Russian tortoises. The closest to one is the McIntyre ratio.

Anorexia in tortoises usually means that the tortoise is sick and refuses to eat.

@Tom or @Yvonne G should be able to help you further in terms of your weight concerns. @zovick knows more about mycoplasma than me.

He sneezes a lot, but no discharge. I also have the correct humidity and he has a variety of substrate in his enclosure.

She diagnosed him via blood tests.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

The tube was installed to give medication, we did a course of antibiotics via injection but he still didn’t improve so went with the tube. We stopped the antibiotics 2 weeks ago but the vet wanted to give another 2 weeks of reduced tube feeding to try and get his weight up.

One more question that might help the experts (not me lol) help you. What antibiotics was your tortoise given? What food is used for the tube feeding?

 

[AAS2018]

One more question that might help the experts (not me lol) help you. What antibiotics was your tortoise given? What food is used for the tube feeding?

I can’t remember the antibiotics unfortunately. The food we are using is EmerAid IC Herbivore.

 

[Tom]

He sneezes a lot, but no discharge. I also have the correct humidity and he has a variety of substrate in his enclosure.

She diagnosed him via blood tests.

What is the "correct" humidity?

What substrates are you using?

What are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area, and over night low?

What types of bulbs are you using for heating and lighting?

What size enclosure?

Are you aware that most of the care info for tortoises from the internet, pet shops, and vets is all wrong? When a tortoise isn't eating or isn't healthy, it is almost always an environmental problem. Usually temperatures, but humidity, lights bulbs, and substate can also be a factor. Dehydration can also be a factor. How often do you soak?

As far as I know, Komodo pellets are a good supplemental food. If that is what the tortoise likes, you might try soaking some and mixing it with the weeds and greens you want him to it a couple of times per week.

 

[AAS2018]

What is the "correct" humidity?

What substrates are you using?

What are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area, and over night low?

What types of bulbs are you using for heating and lighting?

What size enclosure?

Are you aware that most of the care info for tortoises from the internet, pet shops, and vets is all wrong? When a tortoise isn't eating or isn't healthy, it is almost always an environmental problem. Usually temperatures, but humidity, lights bulbs, and substate can also be a factor. Dehydration can also be a factor. How often do you soak?

As far as I know, Komodo pellets are a good supplemental food. If that is what the tortoise likes, you might try soaking some and mixing it with the weeds and greens you want him to it a couple of times per week.

Humidity is between 45-50%. Temperature is between 28-40 through this enclosure which is a large table.

Substrate is a mixture between top soil & sand, straw pellets (which he seems to prefer) and edible bedding. I’ve previously used coco coir substrate but he didn’t seem to like that so stopped.

We soak him twice a week.

I’ve done a lot of research over the years and from advise from this forum made changes to his enclosure to get this right.

I have been adding a small amount of pellets to his weeds to encourage him eating, sometimes it works but more often than not he eats the pellets and nothing else. The last week he has taken weeds directly from me but obviously would prefer he did this himself. I’ve found the weeds he prefers but still offering a variety.

 

[Tom]

Humidity is between 45-50%. Temperature is between 28-40 through this enclosure which is a large table.

Substrate is a mixture between top soil & sand, straw pellets (which he seems to prefer) and edible bedding. I’ve previously used coco coir substrate but he didn’t seem to like that so stopped.

We soak him twice a week.

I’ve done a lot of research over the years and from advise from this forum made changes to his enclosure to get this right.

I have been adding a small amount of pellets to his weeds to encourage him eating, sometimes it works but more often than not he eats the pellets and nothing else. The last week he has taken weeds directly from me but obviously would prefer he did this himself. I’ve found the weeds he prefers but still offering a variety.

What is the overnight low, and how are you maintaining that in an open table? What bulbs are you using for basking and for UV?

Store bought soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. There is no way to know what is in it, and it could be something toxic.

Sand is a possible skin and eye irritant and also an impaction risk. It should never be used as tortoise substrate.

Straw pellets and edible bedding are far to dry and unnatural and should not be used.

Soaking twice a week is great, and that helps eliminate dehydration complications from our list of possible problems.

Mince the weeds up super fine and spray some water on the chopped pile. Soak the pellets and mix them all up with the weeds, so he can't eat around the weeds. Use a very small amount of weeds at first, and gradually add more. Its good to use this method with any old favorites to introduce new or better foods.

 

[AAS2018]

What is the overnight low, and how are you maintaining that in an open table? What bulbs are you using for basking and for UV?

Store bought soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. There is no way to know what is in it, and it could be something toxic.

Sand is a possible skin and eye irritant and also an impaction risk. It should never be used as tortoise substrate.

Straw pellets and edible bedding are far to dry and unnatural and should not be used.

Soaking twice a week is great, and that helps eliminate dehydration complications from our list of possible problems.

Mince the weeds up super fine and spray some water on the chopped pile. Soak the pellets and mix them all up with the weeds, so he can't eat around the weeds. Use a very small amount of weeds at first, and gradually add more. Its good to use this method with any old favorites to introduce new or better foods.

Thanks, do you have any thoughts on his weight? He’s 654g and shell size 19cm.

The temperate seems to be stable, it’s very warm here in the UK at the moment. We use basking lamps and I have 2 different wattages to give him an option. The bulbs include UV-A, UV-B and IR. Over night low is 28 as we have a ceramic heater to ensure it doesn’t drop too low.

The substrates are designed for tortoises so hopefully minimises the risk of toxins. Do you have a recommendation for an alternative?

We have been doing that with his food, but it’s taking time. I’m worried as the vet said he is anorexic and should be eating more and at a loss what more I can do as she said to stop the pellets. It’s good to know these can still be considered an option to help his appetite.