Wetting soil and bark

Linhdan Nguyen

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Hello all, I plan on making a new & bigger indoor enclosure very soon and i was planning on having soil on the bottom and a layer (maybe an inch) of mulch just so they dont track the soil in their food dish and all. But i wet the substrate (soil) a couple times a week and if i have mulch, should I remove it to wet the substrate?
But i also want to put plants in there so i wouldnt need to add water often if theyre in there right? It'll be moist with the plants from watering?
Just want to make sure its nice and moist when they dig but i dont really like the idea of all the mulch being turned underneath the soil.
Any ideas?
 

ascott

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Hello all, I plan on making a new & bigger indoor enclosure very soon and i was planning on having soil on the bottom and a layer (maybe an inch) of mulch just so they dont track the soil in their food dish and all. But i wet the substrate (soil) a couple times a week and if i have mulch, should I remove it to wet the substrate?
But i also want to put plants in there so i wouldnt need to add water often if theyre in there right? It'll be moist with the plants from watering?
Just want to make sure its nice and moist when they dig but i dont really like the idea of all the mulch being turned underneath the soil.
Any ideas?

Pretty much realize that what we picture in our minds eye of what a "perfect" beautiful enclosure will look like is completely trashed within the first day or two of the tortoise being added to that enclosure....a digging species will mix up all of the layers, eventually. So perhaps just put it all in a big tub and mix it up to begin with...this way it is done and you can plan from that point...?:D
 

Linhdan Nguyen

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Pretty much realize that what we picture in our minds eye of what a "perfect" beautiful enclosure will look like is completely trashed within the first day or two of the tortoise being added to that enclosure....a digging species will mix up all of the layers, eventually. So perhaps just put it all in a big tub and mix it up to begin with...this way it is done and you can plan from that point...?:D
I did not think about that. :(
For now though, does putting hay around the food dish/flat rocks sound okay? The flat rocks help some but when the substrate is damp, it sticks to their feet and then they like to eat often.
Or any other suggestions?
 

ascott

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I did not think about that. :(
For now though, does putting hay around the food dish/flat rocks sound okay? The flat rocks help some but when the substrate is damp, it sticks to their feet and then they like to eat often.
Or any other suggestions?

I personally do not like what hay does when it gets wet, it molds. Flat rocks around the water dish is pretty and it will likely keep some of the substrate out of the water....but remember, a little dirt will not hurt a dirt loving creature :D it is us humans that have to come to grip with the fact that we like creatures that are well, dirty dusty critters....and they appear happy with that....
 

Linhdan Nguyen

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I personally do not like what hay does when it gets wet, it molds. Flat rocks around the water dish is pretty and it will likely keep some of the substrate out of the water....but remember, a little dirt will not hurt a dirt loving creature :D it is us humans that have to come to grip with the fact that we like creatures that are well, dirty dusty critters....and they appear happy with that....
Yes, i would replace it every week if i were to use hay.
A little dirt wont hurt of course but they always get dirt in their food and i know sand can cause impaction (? Did I spell it right?) but how easily does soil travel through the body?
Im just worried about that. If its fine then i wont be worried.
As for their water dish, They dont use it except to step in it anyway
 

Sara G.

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I personally haven't heard of any impact issues with dirt. Sand I've heard of but I think that's because it binds together in the intestines. I don't think soil quite does that.
Besides any tort eating in the wild would definitely eat a bit of dirt now and again.
As long as they're not eating mouthfuls of dirt all the time then I think it should be fine.
 

Linhdan Nguyen

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I personally haven't heard of any impact issues with dirt. Sand I've heard of but I think that's because it binds together in the intestines. I don't think soil quite does that.
Besides any tort eating in the wild would definitely eat a bit of dirt now and again.
As long as they're not eating mouthfuls of dirt all the time then I think it should be fine.
Okay! Thank you! I feel better
 

Tom

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You can avoid all of this if you just use fine grade orchid bark.

Soil is just too messy and you cannot know what its made of.

Hay should not be used. Russians are not grass eaters, and hay will mold in a day or two on damp substrate in a warm enclosure. I wouldn't use hay in a dry enclosure either, because its just too, well…, dry. Excessive dryness is not good for tortoises.

I would also keep your plants in pots (Now you have a good use for the soil…). Otherwise the plants will be eaten or trampled.
 

ascott

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You can avoid all of this if you just use fine grade orchid bark.

Soil is just too messy and you cannot know what its made of.

Hay should not be used. Russians are not grass eaters, and hay will mold in a day or two on damp substrate in a warm enclosure. I wouldn't use hay in a dry enclosure either, because its just too, well…, dry. Excessive dryness is not good for tortoises.

I would also keep your plants in pots (Now you have a good use for the soil…). Otherwise the plants will be eaten or trampled.


We agree on the fact that hay molds and we both agree it is not a great choice for this particular set up....I am not a big fan of the soil varieties offered in stores, there are so many things that can and are added to break it down that there may be some undesirable ingredients in the soil mix, therefore I would gather clean dirt from my untreated yard and mix that with a good pure peat moss then take that mix and compress it down firmly by hand or small hand tamper until the substrate is solid and a good walking surface, which offers a firm foot hold for proper muscle use and formation...

Fine grade orchid bark also has mystery ingredients added, simply review the brand of choice/type...of which there are many...for example, fir is baked so dry that it easily splinters and creates a great deal of dust, the medium grades are an unstable medium for a small tortoise to walk on...the large grade chunks are like rock climbing in relation to the small size of a Russian....or smaller tort of that similar size.

I personally would rather see a tortoise with a bit of dirt around their eyes than splinters in the thinner areas of the tortoise skin as well as the eye area....now, this I believe is one of those items that is purely a "like" item and each has their plus and minus....
 

ascott

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Yes, i would replace it every week if i were to use hay.
A little dirt wont hurt of course but they always get dirt in their food and i know sand can cause impaction (? Did I spell it right?) but how easily does soil travel through the body?
Im just worried about that. If its fine then i wont be worried.
As for their water dish, They dont use it except to step in it anyway

I would not ever add sand to substrate, especially an indoor enclosure. Dirt on the food is not a big deal, keep water for the tort to drink and soak in and the two will balance one another out....dirt easily moves through the tortoise....hydration is key in the aid of things moving through the tort as well.

You can also try to move the location of the water dish about in the enclosure to find which is the least travelled lane...this may also help to keep it clean a touch longer....

I did not say anything about the plant trample earlier because I did not want to dash all of your ideas....lol :p Figured this is one of those things that is a learned thing and would cause no harm in the schooling process....
 

Linhdan Nguyen

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You can avoid all of this if you just use fine grade orchid bark.

Soil is just too messy and you cannot know what its made of.

Hay should not be used. Russians are not grass eaters, and hay will mold in a day or two on damp substrate in a warm enclosure. I wouldn't use hay in a dry enclosure either, because its just too, well…, dry. Excessive dryness is not good for tortoises.

I would also keep your plants in pots (Now you have a good use for the soil…). Otherwise the plants will be eaten or trampled.
Ive been looking for orchid bark but i cant find any in my area. They have this orchid bark soil, but it has those white balls in it.
I wont use hay then, & well i wouldnt mind if SOME of the plants were eaten :)
But thank you very much
 

Linhdan Nguyen

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I would not ever add sand to substrate, especially an indoor enclosure. Dirt on the food is not a big deal, keep water for the tort to drink and soak in and the two will balance one another out....dirt easily moves through the tortoise....hydration is key in the aid of things moving through the tort as well.

You can also try to move the location of the water dish about in the enclosure to find which is the least travelled lane...this may also help to keep it clean a touch longer....

I did not say anything about the plant trample earlier because I did not want to dash all of your ideas....lol :p Figured this is one of those things that is a learned thing and would cause no harm in the schooling process....
I have a water dish but ive noticed none of them use it. One avoids it & the other walks back and forth in it. Lol
But i do keep them hydrated with soaks and spraying their food.
As for the plants, i dont think there will be trampling, just a LOT of eating.
 

JoesMum

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I have a water dish but ive noticed none of them use it. One avoids it & the other walks back and forth in it.
As ling as it's there to use then that is fine. A plant saucer is ideal as it's not too deep.

Lol
But i do keep them hydrated with soaks and spraying their food.
As for the plants, i dont think there will be trampling, just a LOT of eating.

Torts don't walk round things unless they have to. I have only 3 types of plant in my garden where Joe lives: edible, squashed and big enough to force Joe to go round them. :D
 

Tom

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Fine grade orchid bark also has mystery ingredients added, simply review the brand of choice/type...of which there are many...for example, fir is baked so dry that it easily splinters and creates a great deal of dust...

There are no mystery ingredients in orchid bark. Its one ingredient: "Fir bark.", is what the label says. In contrast, "soil" is made up of composted yard waste. Could be a bunch of composted mulberry leaves, or it could be oleander leaves mixed with grass clipping that were recently treated with a "weed n feed". No way to know with the soil.

I don't know why you'd say orchid bark splinters. In 30 years of using it with all sorts of reptile species and running my hands through it, I've never seen a splinter in me or any of my animals. I've used 100's of bags of the stuff and no splintering yet. I agree that the medium or coarse grades are unsuitable for tortoise use in most cases.

If someone were to keep orchid bark bone dry, then yes, there might be some dust, but the whole point of using orchid bark is to keep it damp. Otherwise we could just use rabbit pellets or compressed grass pellets. There is no dust from damp orchid bark.

I also agree with you that simple yard dirt is not a bad choice. I've never tried mixing peat with it though. That's an idea I wouldn't mind trying...
 

ascott

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There are no mystery ingredients in orchid bark. Its one ingredient: "Fir bark.", is what the label says. In contrast, "soil" is made up of composted yard waste. Could be a bunch of composted mulberry leaves, or it could be oleander leaves mixed with grass clipping that were recently treated with a "weed n feed". No way to know with the soil.

I don't know why you'd say orchid bark splinters. In 30 years of using it with all sorts of reptile species and running my hands through it, I've never seen a splinter in me or any of my animals. I've used 100's of bags of the stuff and no splintering yet. I agree that the medium or coarse grades are unsuitable for tortoise use in most cases.

If someone were to keep orchid bark bone dry, then yes, there might be some dust, but the whole point of using orchid bark is to keep it damp. Otherwise we could just use rabbit pellets or compressed grass pellets. There is no dust from damp orchid bark.

I also agree with you that simple yard dirt is not a bad choice. I've never tried mixing peat with it though. That's an idea I wouldn't mind trying...

Hi Tom, I worked for a number of years where I had the lovely hands on experience of using all types of planting material...one of which was orchid bark. Let me tell you, more times than not I would have my work gloves full of splinters after spreading bag after bag of the stuff...not if that was bad enough but each time I would rip the bag, tip the bag and as the stuff came out I was enveloped in a cloud of dust and wood particles...so yes, there are splinters and dust....also there are a lot of fir bark mixes that include charcoal, sponge rock and some even mix in perlite.

The orchid bark was initially designed as a medium for Orchids..so some of the other mediums mixed in are with that in mind....so yes, there are Pure fir bark out there but it is not true of each fine orchid bark sold....that is all I am saying...again, this is simply another of those topics Tom that is a preference thing...I simply shared my preference, as you did. I am not looking to bash anyone on their preference, just offering another is all.:p
 

Tom

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Hi Tom, I worked for a number of years where I had the lovely hands on experience of using all types of planting material...one of which was orchid bark. Let me tell you, more times than not I would have my work gloves full of splinters after spreading bag after bag of the stuff...not if that was bad enough but each time I would rip the bag, tip the bag and as the stuff came out I was enveloped in a cloud of dust and wood particles...so yes, there are splinters and dust....also there are a lot of fir bark mixes that include charcoal, sponge rock and some even mix in perlite.

The orchid bark was initially designed as a medium for Orchids..so some of the other mediums mixed in are with that in mind....so yes, there are Pure fir bark out there but it is not true of each fine orchid bark sold....that is all I am saying...again, this is simply another of those topics Tom that is a preference thing...I simply shared my preference, as you did. I am not looking to bash anyone on their preference, just offering another is all.:p

Thank you for that explanation. In all my years with orchid bark, I've never encountered what you describe.
 
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