What is Freddy?

[Fushball]

Hi there!

We were wondering what kind of tortoise our Freddy is? We got him a couple of years from someone who is a friend of a friend who was downsizing but she never knew what type of torty he was either. He must be at least 40 years old and I'll post you a couple of pics.

The reason we were wondering is because he is quite 'fond' of our other and younger torty Marigold. They are clearly different species but we are not sure if they could successfully breed?

Cheers!

P.S. Freddy is the bigger tortoise, on the left is Marigold our Spur Thigh

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n123/Fushball/DSC00758.jpg

 

[Laura]

My first thought was desert tort, but maybe a hermans?
I appears he has a hole in his shell to tether him..
Your friend didn't know what kind he is? He looks good. So care/diet must have been ok.
I would post more pics. Take a underside pic that shows the tail area well. That will help with IDing and sexing.

 

[Fushball]

My first thought was desert tort, but maybe a hermans?
I appears he has a hole in his shell to tether him..
Your friend didn't know what kind he is? He looks good. So care/diet must have been ok.
I would post more pics. Take a underside pic that shows the tail area well. That will help with IDing and sexing.

Yeah I think he was second hand to the previous owner, so he has definately not been tethered for a long time! Don't worry about that. They both get a free run of the garden so eat whatever they want and sleep wherever they want. He has a particular fondness for cucumber and no interest in water?

I will try and get an underside pic later, he's quite heavy so I'll get some assistance with that! He's defo a male though because he has been knocking into, chasing and mounting Marigold! xD

Cheers

---

He didn't like being held up! I hope it's good enough quality. He has funny little spur things on his back thighs that I never knew he had!

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n123/Fushball/DSC00896.jpg

 

[Crazy1]

Ok, I'm making a stab at this from the pics only. However the wt and length of the tort would have helped as well as a face, butt and plastron shot. I think Freddy is an Testudo Ibera, and an older one at that. But we will have to wait for the ID master to check in.

 

[Millerlite]

i would guess a greek tortoise of some sort...

 

[Fushball]

Yeah he's an older chappy but we already knew that! His shell is hard to identify because it's so brown and not very defined. He's a big lad as well, as you can see in the picture!
Sorry I can't get any more pictures atm, he's sleeping and it's late. Cheers.

 

[egyptiandan]

They are both Spur-thighed tortoises. Marigold is a Testudo graeca ibera. Freddy is a female and a Testudo graeca graeca of most likely Algerian origin.
If at all possible you should keep them seperate as they are different subspecies.
Another UK tortoise keeper if anyone was wondering.

Danny

 

[Maggie Cummings]

They are both Spur-thighed tortoises. Marigold is a Testudo graeca ibera. Freddy is a female and a Testudo graeca graeca of most likely Algerian origin.
If at all possible you should keep them seperate as they are different subspecies.
Another UK tortoise keeper if anyone was wondering.

Danny

just anyone? Nobody specific??????????

 

[Fushball]

Yeah We're British
I'm afraid I have to disagree in my opinion about his being female. I have seen two years of non-stop male activity surrounding our female! And my mum has seen him mounting her ALOT. So I think after at least 40 years of life Freddy is pretty sure he's a guy by now.
Otherwise cheers! We already knew what Mari was as we got her from a breeder. Luckily they get on very well so we do keep them together and there have been no problems. They roam freely in the whole of our back garden so don't meet that often and she can move faster than him!
What makes you think he is Algerian? Oh we have a foreigner in the family!

 

[egyptiandan]

I'm going to have to disagree with Freddy being male. Freddy's tail is much to short to be a male. Also male Algerians don't get that big. Females can be just as aggressive as males and do just as much mounting. They just mount for dominance over the other tortoises with them. What tells me she is an Algerian is the size, shape of the vertebral scutes, colour of the carapace, colour of the spurs and the way the plastron looks.
Here's a couple pictures of my fiancee's male Algerians.

Here is a female Algerian like yours.
http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=27993&highlight=algerian

Danny

 

[Fushball]

I'm glad to have found out what type he is because it was quite hard to define considering he is big and his shell has little 'skirts' as I like to call them, and his colouring isn't bright! We think his shell is a bit deformed at the back, probably something he was born with. We were most interested to know because noone had known before and just incase he decided he really did want babies with Mari. We could have gotten surprise eggs! Oops.
He's a good boy though. And I couldn't hold him on one hand and take a photo of him! He's really too big! xD

 

[Yvonne G]

You're not going to get any eggs out of them because your new tortoise is a female. She's mounting the smaller tortoise because she's trying to dominate her. She's telling Marigold to get out of her territory. You'll have to keep a good eye on Mari to be sure she's eating and is not being intimidated by the larger female.

Yvonne

 

[Crazy1]

Yep I'm in agreement here Freddy is a Freddricka. And as Yvonne has said mounting is a dominance thing. Watch them closely psychological intimidation is worse than physical, and harder to spot.

 

[terrypin]

hi i am inclined to agree with Danny not only because of all the reasons he has stated but because i keep and breed algerians myself.Danny although as you say this appears very large for a male ,looking at the width of the central vertebral scute do you think there is a possibility this is a large whitei male and worth a look at the plastron and tail to confirm.
terry

 

[egyptiandan]

In post #3 Terry there is a link to a plastron picture. It's a female all the way. It's probably from close to the range of T.g.whitei as it's very flared.

Danny

 

[Fushball]

As you can see in the first picture I think he does have very flared little skirts. Sorry still calling him a HE!
Does the 'whitei' thing mean anything specific?

 

[egyptiandan]

T.g."whitei" is a form of Algerian that get very large. Females get to be 30cm to 36cm and 5,000g and up. They are found in eastern Algeria. As you go west the greeks start to get smaller, hence a regular Algerian. They get big, just not as big as "whitei".

Danny

 

[Fushball]

Cool! Well I am going to take some more pictures of his tail so we can take a closer look and work out for definite if Freddy is a girl or a guy (cos that other pic is quite distant).
Anyway I know that marigold is ten now so that's a good age to start breeding her. But is there a minimun age to breed them? Because if Freddy is a girl then maybe she would like some eggs? I'm not sure how to weigh him though, but I can measure for sure

 

[tortoisenerd]

They will breed when sexually mature. This will vary a little and is not a specific age, but 10 is typically sexually mature. Are you saying you plan to get a male for the two females then? Or, just set up a "date"?

Please make sure that you have homes set up for the torts or plan to keep all babies if needed. There is some research you should do beforehand as well....it's not something to just jump into.

Tortoises won't necessarily "want" eggs. The males will breed females. Sometimes male tort's breeding attempts are so frequent and rough on a female that they cannot be housed together. Another thing to keep in mind. If you keep seeing aggressive behavior between your two females, you want to separate them. Marigold could feel like Freddy is in her home. If each of them have their own area and they are brought into a neutral area together, sometimes that goes over better than a new tort moving into another tort's home. How much space do they have?

Also, I'd recommend taking any new tort to the vet for a checkup and fecal test. Just so you know, typically a 6 month quarantine is recommended for new torts before introducing them to another tort in your house. This is to observe their health. Anytime you introduce a new tort to your tort, you introduce each of them to each other's parasites and such. So, they should all get fecal tests.

You can weigh them using a bathroom scale. You can hold them and weigh them with you, and then just you, if needed. hard to get them to keep still! I use a kitchen gram scale for my hatchling but they both appear too large for that I believe.

 

[Fushball]

Cheers! Well I am researching it as we speak because it's something my family have discussed having heard stories of accidental eggs, and in the belief that Freddy may have been/be a male we were unsure what to expect, so I said I'd research.
Well unfortunately we didn't know that about the introducing and 6 months quarantine thing! We just put them straight together! Lol, but they both seem to be absoloutley fine and theyve been together for about two years, so it seems all clear.
I don't think we'd buy another tortoise because they're expensive. If there was one that wanted a home for free as Freddy did then fine, I don't think we'd mind so much.
They have a whole garden to themselves so they don't see each other alot. Admittedly when Freddy sees Marigold s/he gets a bit excited and tries to bump her and has been seen mounting her but Freddy's always removed quickly when that's seen. Marigold also loves tor ace up to him and then wander off. Not sure what that is about! I'd say they are quite satisfied with each other now because Freddy doesn't bump mari very much and she likes to go and see him.
So yeah it'd be a date as you say but I haven't even mentioned it to mother yet, it's just some ideas I want to put together before proposing it to her.
My main issue is that I don't trust our scales! Sounds silly but I don't weigh myself on them anymore because they say I'm a stone more than I really am! (Trust me, the doctor weighed me not that long ago). But I guess I'll give them a try. Marigold isn't half as big as Freddy...

Let's say we were to get a male for them both... they are different sizes though of the same type as Spur thigh, but different variations. What would one reccommend?

Cheers