Dana - try lubricating that growth seam with cold pressed coconut oil once a day.
White flesh
- Thread starter EppsDynasty
- Start date
Another quiver of Tort Knowledge in my "Tortoise Care Guide"... Thank You my friend
Consider it done!
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS PHOTOGRAPH... Zola Of The Sea. My wife and I have wanted to go to England to visit her family for a long time now. I must say if we make it I would love to meet this incredible family.
Here’s a couple pics…..
The “Acrylic pancakes” that hold the aluminum supports needed to be "scuffed" and edges be be removed. This was to allow the new Acrylic to have a better bond with the old as well as remove the thin edges. She really didn't like this part as you see. 
Then new Acrylic was made and carefully "pushed" under the supports. This part needed to be done with a couple things in mind. We had to make sure the new "pancake" of Acrylic wasn't bigger than the last. This would cause pressure on the healing crack, which could not be good. There was also the need to NOT create an air pocket under it, afraid this would only create a place for bad stuff to grow. We had to ONLY adhere new Acrylic to the fronts of the "pancake." Her Plastron is VERY stiff, it has lost 90% of it's movement. Amazing how little time has passed and how much growth and repair has occurred. She will not only get a soak for 15 minutes 1 time a week. I was doing 45-60 minute soaks daily. This is to hopefully decrease the chance of it lifting before it is fully healed. I imagine 2 more months then a check on strength of the Plastron. Hope the Coconut oil helps speed up the healing too.
The “Acrylic pancakes” that hold the aluminum supports needed to be "scuffed" and edges be be removed. This was to allow the new Acrylic to have a better bond with the old as well as remove the thin edges. She really didn't like this part as you see. Then new Acrylic was made and carefully "pushed" under the supports. This part needed to be done with a couple things in mind. We had to make sure the new "pancake" of Acrylic wasn't bigger than the last. This would cause pressure on the healing crack, which could not be good. There was also the need to NOT create an air pocket under it, afraid this would only create a place for bad stuff to grow. We had to ONLY adhere new Acrylic to the fronts of the "pancake." Her Plastron is VERY stiff, it has lost 90% of it's movement. Amazing how little time has passed and how much growth and repair has occurred. She will not only get a soak for 15 minutes 1 time a week. I was doing 45-60 minute soaks daily. This is to hopefully decrease the chance of it lifting before it is fully healed. I imagine 2 more months then a check on strength of the Plastron. Hope the Coconut oil helps speed up the healing too.
Forgot to answer this. EVERY tortoise outdoor enclosure is Double fenced. There is wood as a first barrier then a chicken wire fence around that 3 feet tall. I do not let the Big guy Mo (Sulcata) out, just the smaller ones. I do have fears of a tort getting out hence double fencing to try and help with escape.
I thought you would like the photo - Zola really enjoys these walks, and occasionally there are people around, who are invariably quite amazed at his speed and determination - they go away with a very different idea of a tortoise's abilities, and a lot more respect for them too.
Little Jo Jo looks very patient and brave - she knows you wouldn't do anything to hurt her. She probably needed those long daily soaks to hydrate and improve her skin, after all the revolting stuff that covered her in the past for so long.
If you ever do come to England, Zola would no doubt love to meet you - and maybe demonstrate his walking (And of course we would love to meet you and your wife too)
Angie
How is JoJo getting on after the repair of her shell supports? I'm thinking of her a lot.
Here is a photo taken yesterday which will give you a better idea of where Zola is walking in the previous photo - though not
today, of course - far too cold !
The breakwater is on the left - a long solid stone and cement surface which goes back out of the photo for some distance. Zola starts at the sea end, and plods on happily to the other end, which leads into the harbour - and then sometimes wants to go back towards the sea again.
Angie
Here is a photo taken yesterday which will give you a better idea of where Zola is walking in the previous photo - though not
today, of course - far too cold !
The breakwater is on the left - a long solid stone and cement surface which goes back out of the photo for some distance. Zola starts at the sea end, and plods on happily to the other end, which leads into the harbour - and then sometimes wants to go back towards the sea again.
Angie
Today is one of those tough days, just getting going. This Photo squashed the stupid things and brought me back to my happy place...Thank You My Friend.
It is truly a beautiful place you have raised Zola. Pictures like this and stories like Zola push me towards Water as a feature in ALL my tort enclosures (outside of course). Jo Jo and some other torts we house absolutely LOVE water to be poured over them, splashing on their head, like they were sitting under a water fall. I know that I will be building exactly that, a water fall in every enclosure. It will have to be what they call a "pondless" water fall.
Jo Jo is doing Fantastic...We here in my neck of the desert have not really had winter yet. It showed up for a week then left, so Jo Jo is getting lots of outside time. The Organic Cold Pressed Coconut Oil is being applied 2 times daily and really has staying power. Pretty much constantly her shell area that has it applied is shiny. I have stopped soaking everyday for her but still give her a wash off after eating and grazing/walking. She truly enjoys her chin to be stroked and it creates a experience that I really can't put into words. A sorta connection between 2 creatures so different in all ways. When I look into her eye I now see acceptance, excitement, trust and most of all happiness. When Jo Jo first entered our lives and you looked into her eye you saw undeniable pain and hopelessness. I do feel she is not so on edge, not timid cause she knows misery is a constant, she has life now to look forward to.
Jo Jo's outdoor enclosure is next to the one we put Hermanns torts in. The other day the wind blew down the plywood I placed there to block the 2 from seeing each other. When I came out to check on them and noticed, there was Jo Jo staring at our Female Hermanns, a barrier in between though. I sat and watched for a minute to observe any behavior exhibits. They just sat there 1 foot apart staring into each others eyes. I started to wonder if she has ever seen another tort.?, does she realize it's a tort? does she know she is a tort.? I let this go for about 10 minutes then put the plywood back up. It's hard to imagine a life without Jo Jo in it, she is such a big part of our lifes everyday.
Zola is a hugely important part of our lives too - far more than we ever imagined. One thing he has recently started doing is communicating with me in a special way. During the winter, we light a small fire each evening, and about an hour before supper, I sit with Zola by the fire with the light off, - actually I flatten myself in the chair to provide a fairly level surface - I put him up near to my face, and begin stroking him. He really enjoys it, and so do I -he will arrange himself and me in his preferred position, and he moves about a bit at times. But the new amazing thing is that when he has had enough, he turns so his head is facing me, and presses his head firmly on to my lower lip -then turns to the side, and moves away in a businesslike manner. He does this every day now, and it really seems like he is saying "thank you mum, but I want to go back in my conservatory now " -but very politely -no scrabbling away off me or anything. I really think it is a friendly gesture, and, as you say, a connection between two very different creatures.
I am so glad that Jo Jo is doing so well - she deserves to have a great life, and clearly you are giving her one
please keep up the progree reports.
Best wishes to you and Jo Jo
Angie
I am so glad that Jo Jo is doing so well - she deserves to have a great life, and clearly you are giving her one
please keep up the progree reports.
Best wishes to you and Jo Jo
Angie
Yesterday after the feeding and wash I noticed this on Jo Jo's "crack." It looked and acted like a piece of pork chop you would get stuck in your teeth. It was a piece of her healing shell and not something stuck there. My wife said "Don't Pull It" but of course trying to get a good picture of it it it a big part of it broke loose.View attachment 365541View attachment 365540In these pics it has already come loose, this is the remaining part of it.
I am guessing it is the natural part of "pushing out" the old attempts of her body trying to heal the wound. The Coconut oil is helping to soften it I assume, it seemed a positive sign not negative. The Vet did say it will have to heal from the inside out in order to have the strength it would need for her to be healthy.
I am guessing it is the natural part of "pushing out" the old attempts of her body trying to heal the wound. The Coconut oil is helping to soften it I assume, it seemed a positive sign not negative. The Vet did say it will have to heal from the inside out in order to have the strength it would need for her to be healthy.
Oops not sure what I did but here
I see what you mean - it does look as if more and better stuff is growing underneath- please keep taking photos of it over the next few weeks -or months - so they can be compared. Jo Jo is a wonderful little tortoise, isn't she ! Without you helping and caring for her, I very much doubt if she would have survived much longer - and now she is happy and enjoying all the attention - and food ! - she gets. You must be so proud of her !
Zola only had a very short look at the sea today, because of the cold wind, but he enjoys it, all the same, and becomes very restless if he misses it.
Angie
Zola only had a very short look at the sea today, because of the cold wind, but he enjoys it, all the same, and becomes very restless if he misses it.
Angie
When we went to get Jo Jo for the first time the woman with Jo Jo told us a story about a large Sulcata named King her mother used to have. Recently in a thread asking about feeding hay to large Sulcata Tortoises the question of "Do FARMS have a better record of taking care of torts than Back Yard pet owners. It reminded me of this FARM story. It is not necessarily about hay but it IS about FARM life for this Sulcata KING.
THE STORY.....
Our family moved to this area in 2014, our daughter was in Kindergarten and son was a 5th grader. As you can imagine our children were pretty comfortable with handling all kinds of animals. Our children were also pretty knowledgeable about all kinds of animals, animals were always a big part of our life. A few weeks into their school year the Kindergarten class went on a field trip to a FARM. This wasn't just any farm, it was a teacher of the school and 1 of the pioneering families in this area's farm.
While the children were lined up outside the bus getting ready to start the tour a group of chickens came out to see what was going on. Of course my daughter had no problem with catching and holding one of these chickens. She carried this chicken through the whole farm tour, to the amazement of the teachers. When the tour came to the Tortoise the teacher asked "Does anyone know what this is?" With a loud, proud voice my daughter said "It's a Sulcata Tortoise, the largest tortoise from a continent." As the other teachers listened to this girl that obviously knows what she is saying, shoot she carried a chicken through the whole hour long tour. My daughter yells out "Your killing that tortoise, you don't know what you are doing." Instantly all the kids became quiet and starred at the FARMER before them. The other teachers just sort of blew it off as one of those crazy things kids say. The Farmer asked "What do you mean?" She responded with confidence and said "That is Pyramiding and it will kill him" Bless her heart, all this info she was spouting off came from her hearing it repeatedly in our reptile shows. You have to remember @Yvonne G was her babysitter as a child as well. So as far as kindergartners go she was well informed. She continued to tell him he was feeding wrong and "Where's his water?" The teachers used this awkward moment to get the kids into a line to board the bus. That afternoon when she came home from school my daughter told me all about this guy killing a tortoise, and how I needed to talk to him...Bless Her Heart. This story was told to us by her teacher a few days later, in amazement of not just her knowledge but confidence,
As soon as I had the opportunity to speak with this Teacher/Farmer I took it. As I started to explain what I was told by my daughter and how these things are wrong he interrupted. "He is from the desert and doesn't need water, he gets all of his water needs from his food." One of the things he explained to the children was how he only ate fruit... "And really loves it." This statement blew me away, how could an educator be so flat out STUPID. As you can imagine I got pretty irritated at his stupidity and tried with all my might to try and teach him. Try and get across what info I could to help this Tortoise in any way, It was obvious it was suffering. He did not want any part of being told how much of a failure he was so it ended pretty fast. This man also started our local FARMERS MARKET which many depended on for their income.
Within months there were major problems at the Farmers Market, of course. He was selling fertilized chicken eggs (baby chicken in egg when you cracked it open) as organic, which they were no way organic. He fed his chickens PURINA Dog Food and whatever he could buy as "Damaged in Shipment" goods. He started buying fruits and vegetables in major city flea markets then trying to re-sell as ORGANIC at our Farmers Market. Needless to say the Farmers Market was shut down by the county, and he had received numerous citations for all kinds of issues. The county as well will not let another FARM open up the Farmers Market due to so many issues with the first one. This absolutely destroyed the local Crafters and Cottage Food Makers (Jam, Pickles, etc.) incomes.
This man is did kill KING, within 1 year of getting him. You might wonder how does this have anything to do with Jo Jo? Well the woman who called us with Jo Jo was the Daughter of Kings original owner. When we started talking with her she got emotional and told us the story of King. Her mother was a Tortoise Rescue for 30 years and when she got up there in age they had to find forever homes for all of them. The smaller ones (Red Foot/Yellow Foot, Desert, Box turtles, etc.) all went to back yard owners. But with King they felt a FARM was the best fit, so they looked for exactly that. Pioneering family farm, in charge of the Farmers Market and a "Big Yard", a perfect fit they thought.......I could not tell her the terrible fate King suffered, how miserable he was until he couldn't make it anymore.
Just because a person has land does not give them some magical powers to house animals successfully. Just because a person has a "Horse Pen" does not make them a FARM. I think we all have witnessed a neighbor with a horse(s) that does absolutely NOTHING for them, No cover from weather, No personal attention, No Vet, No shoes....But they are a FARM. The Romance of the Farm has and does give people false confidence in the care and comfort of housing animals. Betty can't even get your appointment scheduled correctly at the Dr.'s office, but somehow with no success to mention she is a FARM and a FARMER cause she has "Property" with a horse.
I have had to support my family 100% by being a FARMER, by succeeding in an AG endeavor and not accepting failure...Because it wouldn't pay the bills. Farms have a failure rate just like any other endeavor in life, having land doesn't grant you success.
A bit long but I hope someone takes clarity about what a FARM really is and isn't from this post.
THE STORY.....
Our family moved to this area in 2014, our daughter was in Kindergarten and son was a 5th grader. As you can imagine our children were pretty comfortable with handling all kinds of animals. Our children were also pretty knowledgeable about all kinds of animals, animals were always a big part of our life. A few weeks into their school year the Kindergarten class went on a field trip to a FARM. This wasn't just any farm, it was a teacher of the school and 1 of the pioneering families in this area's farm.
While the children were lined up outside the bus getting ready to start the tour a group of chickens came out to see what was going on. Of course my daughter had no problem with catching and holding one of these chickens. She carried this chicken through the whole farm tour, to the amazement of the teachers. When the tour came to the Tortoise the teacher asked "Does anyone know what this is?" With a loud, proud voice my daughter said "It's a Sulcata Tortoise, the largest tortoise from a continent." As the other teachers listened to this girl that obviously knows what she is saying, shoot she carried a chicken through the whole hour long tour. My daughter yells out "Your killing that tortoise, you don't know what you are doing." Instantly all the kids became quiet and starred at the FARMER before them. The other teachers just sort of blew it off as one of those crazy things kids say. The Farmer asked "What do you mean?" She responded with confidence and said "That is Pyramiding and it will kill him" Bless her heart, all this info she was spouting off came from her hearing it repeatedly in our reptile shows. You have to remember @Yvonne G was her babysitter as a child as well. So as far as kindergartners go she was well informed. She continued to tell him he was feeding wrong and "Where's his water?" The teachers used this awkward moment to get the kids into a line to board the bus. That afternoon when she came home from school my daughter told me all about this guy killing a tortoise, and how I needed to talk to him...Bless Her Heart. This story was told to us by her teacher a few days later, in amazement of not just her knowledge but confidence,
As soon as I had the opportunity to speak with this Teacher/Farmer I took it. As I started to explain what I was told by my daughter and how these things are wrong he interrupted. "He is from the desert and doesn't need water, he gets all of his water needs from his food." One of the things he explained to the children was how he only ate fruit... "And really loves it." This statement blew me away, how could an educator be so flat out STUPID. As you can imagine I got pretty irritated at his stupidity and tried with all my might to try and teach him. Try and get across what info I could to help this Tortoise in any way, It was obvious it was suffering. He did not want any part of being told how much of a failure he was so it ended pretty fast. This man also started our local FARMERS MARKET which many depended on for their income.
Within months there were major problems at the Farmers Market, of course. He was selling fertilized chicken eggs (baby chicken in egg when you cracked it open) as organic, which they were no way organic. He fed his chickens PURINA Dog Food and whatever he could buy as "Damaged in Shipment" goods. He started buying fruits and vegetables in major city flea markets then trying to re-sell as ORGANIC at our Farmers Market. Needless to say the Farmers Market was shut down by the county, and he had received numerous citations for all kinds of issues. The county as well will not let another FARM open up the Farmers Market due to so many issues with the first one. This absolutely destroyed the local Crafters and Cottage Food Makers (Jam, Pickles, etc.) incomes.
This man is did kill KING, within 1 year of getting him. You might wonder how does this have anything to do with Jo Jo? Well the woman who called us with Jo Jo was the Daughter of Kings original owner. When we started talking with her she got emotional and told us the story of King. Her mother was a Tortoise Rescue for 30 years and when she got up there in age they had to find forever homes for all of them. The smaller ones (Red Foot/Yellow Foot, Desert, Box turtles, etc.) all went to back yard owners. But with King they felt a FARM was the best fit, so they looked for exactly that. Pioneering family farm, in charge of the Farmers Market and a "Big Yard", a perfect fit they thought.......I could not tell her the terrible fate King suffered, how miserable he was until he couldn't make it anymore.
Just because a person has land does not give them some magical powers to house animals successfully. Just because a person has a "Horse Pen" does not make them a FARM. I think we all have witnessed a neighbor with a horse(s) that does absolutely NOTHING for them, No cover from weather, No personal attention, No Vet, No shoes....But they are a FARM. The Romance of the Farm has and does give people false confidence in the care and comfort of housing animals. Betty can't even get your appointment scheduled correctly at the Dr.'s office, but somehow with no success to mention she is a FARM and a FARMER cause she has "Property" with a horse.
I have had to support my family 100% by being a FARMER, by succeeding in an AG endeavor and not accepting failure...Because it wouldn't pay the bills. Farms have a failure rate just like any other endeavor in life, having land doesn't grant you success.
A bit long but I hope someone takes clarity about what a FARM really is and isn't from this post.
Thank you very much for that interesting post - we live in a farming area, in Devon,but they are nothing like the farms you see in the US, on the whole - relatively small, sometimes owned for centuries by the same family - who work on them full-time. There are some very large ones, and some farmers who have no aim except to make as much money as they can, even if it pollutes the soil and destroys the environment for everyone - but there are quite a few very decent people around.
Your daughter sounds amazing - what a girl ! I'm really sorry about King - but I suppose other than kidnapping him, there wasn't much anyone could do.
When we first got Zola, there was another with him , who was bought by a local celebrity, who
was on the tv a lot, and who had a huge house in the area. We used to take Zola to the pet shop with us when we went to get bird seed (for our many bird feeders) and show him to the owner, Mike, who had some elderly tortoises of his own, and was interested in Zola's progress. We went in one day, and Mike said "I've got something to show you." He fetched this tiny little pathetic-looking scrap, who had been Zola's companion. He was furious !! They had brought him in, saying he wasn't eating ! He was being kept in a metal hamster cage - no lighting or heating - in their kitchen ! Mike was an exMarine, and could be pretty fierce - he told this celebrity he was taking the tortoise away, as it was almost dying because it hadn't been cared for properly .
I'm not sure what happened in the end, as Mike's wife was very ill, and he had to give up the shop, but we were amazed that a very very rich person, with lots of staff working for him, couldn't be bothered to see his tortoise was looked after properly!
I should explain that at that time, there were very few young tortoises in the U K, because it had been illegal to sell them , but the rules had recently changed, and presumably the guy thought a tortoise would impress people ! To us, Zola was a totally unexpected joy, and we have loved and cherished him, but we never ever thought of him as someone to show off !
Angie
Your daughter sounds amazing - what a girl ! I'm really sorry about King - but I suppose other than kidnapping him, there wasn't much anyone could do.
When we first got Zola, there was another with him , who was bought by a local celebrity, who
was on the tv a lot, and who had a huge house in the area. We used to take Zola to the pet shop with us when we went to get bird seed (for our many bird feeders) and show him to the owner, Mike, who had some elderly tortoises of his own, and was interested in Zola's progress. We went in one day, and Mike said "I've got something to show you." He fetched this tiny little pathetic-looking scrap, who had been Zola's companion. He was furious !! They had brought him in, saying he wasn't eating ! He was being kept in a metal hamster cage - no lighting or heating - in their kitchen ! Mike was an exMarine, and could be pretty fierce - he told this celebrity he was taking the tortoise away, as it was almost dying because it hadn't been cared for properly .
I'm not sure what happened in the end, as Mike's wife was very ill, and he had to give up the shop, but we were amazed that a very very rich person, with lots of staff working for him, couldn't be bothered to see his tortoise was looked after properly!
I should explain that at that time, there were very few young tortoises in the U K, because it had been illegal to sell them , but the rules had recently changed, and presumably the guy thought a tortoise would impress people ! To us, Zola was a totally unexpected joy, and we have loved and cherished him, but we never ever thought of him as someone to show off !
Angie
I am amazed continually at the path life takes me on. A very wise man once said "If you do not make a plan, nothing can go wrong." ... Angus MacGyver. You probably would have never planned to devote so much of your time and love to a tortoise, but....here you and Zola are.
Yesterday I looked at the crack and whatever is coming off up close. I started to wonder if some how it was food, dirt or something that has become stuck there. I used a small soft bristle brush to try and "scrub" lightly of course the material and see what happens. It's definitely part of the shell or shell repair, soft when coconut oil is on it but does dry out and become hard and brittle. I will focus on not irritating the area and allow it to take it's natural course, I will monitor it though.
I am really wondering if having no eyelid is causing discomfort or making it difficult for her to sleep. I am going to post a thread on "Debatable Topics" here to see what kind of responses other people have.
Yesterday I looked at the crack and whatever is coming off up close. I started to wonder if some how it was food, dirt or something that has become stuck there. I used a small soft bristle brush to try and "scrub" lightly of course the material and see what happens. It's definitely part of the shell or shell repair, soft when coconut oil is on it but does dry out and become hard and brittle. I will focus on not irritating the area and allow it to take it's natural course, I will monitor it though.
I am really wondering if having no eyelid is causing discomfort or making it difficult for her to sleep. I am going to post a thread on "Debatable Topics" here to see what kind of responses other people have.
Do you think Jo Jo is having difficulty sleeping then.? I doubt if there is anything you could do, except give her a dark place in which to rest, which you already do. Are you still putting stuff on her eye to help lubricate it ? I can just imagine you making her a tiny black eye -patch - like a pirate would have !
Angie
Angie
ARRRRGGGGGG Matey...... I was thinking the same thing. I do think she is having issues with light....During the day there are times that it seems she wants no light in that eye. She will push her (bad) eye up against solid objects it seems to block light. I do lubricate the eye daily, as needed. I do not put anything on it if completely open, if there seems to be a little "eye bugar" Lubrication is needed. I will drive myself crazy thinking of the "What If's" unless I "Think it out." with your help of course.
Here's another view of the same bit of coast which I thought you would like to see. By the way, this part of the coast was well-known for smugglers and pirates - possibly a local person is carrying on a tradition of pirate eye patches and would be able to make a mini one for Jo Jo ! If I ever meet such a person, I will let you know !!
Angie
Whoa what a week summer is here ... not really but it has been 70+ degrees for 5 days. Jo Jo has been enjoying her outside time and getting in lots of walking. We even made her a new pen that is mobile, when she eats all her vegetation we then can move it. She has slowed from when we initially put the supports on, but overall she is faster then when she had no supports. here she is ... 
This pic makes it look like she has a big nose ... Ha
This pic makes it look like she has a big nose ... Ha
