Why did Dale do this?

[Candy]

Just wondering if anyone's tortoise has done similar to what Dale did last night. He went over and got into his water and stayed there all night long. Mainly his butt was in the water the rest of him was up on the side. I picked him up this morning and he was cold so I put him under his basking light and then I gave him some spring mix (he usually doesn't like it) and when I came home from work he had eaten about half of it. He seems fine so I took him and soaked him for a few minutes. I soak him about 2 to 3 times a week for about 10 to 15 minutes that's our routine. The only other time he had done something similar was when we first brought him home he would go sit in his water, but only for a few minutes at a time not the whole night. Has anyone else had their tortoise do this or does anyone know why he would be doing this?

 

[dreadyA]

Maybe he's growing up!!? He doesn't need momma bathing him anymore
jk, I wouldnt know. All night, as in night till morning?

 

[Madkins007]

I'd wonder about the temps around the habitat, and if there were any tell-tale behaviors beforehand.

He might have been trying to cool off a bit and just decided to stay there. Sometimes, my guys self-select a much cooler night temp then I would have guessed they like. I think the controversial 'night temp drops' is a good idea for many Red-foots, especially those from the Gran Chaco and Brazil, like Dale. Those areas experience a much wider temp fluctuation than the Northern animals.

 

[Crazy1]

Candy, not to worry you but, I had Lil Bit do that. Which is what made me think things were not right with her. She had slowed down a bit but was still eating. Is Dale OK otherwise? Is he urinating and deficating OK? There may be other reasons for this behavior but she is the only one of mine that has done this.

 

[Candy]

Maybe he's growing up!!? He doesn't need momma bathing him anymore
jk, I wouldnt know. All night, as in night till morning?

Yes all night from 9:00 p.m. until 7:00 p.m.

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I'd wonder about the temps around the habitat, and if there were any tell-tale behaviors beforehand.

He might have been trying to cool off a bit and just decided to stay there. Sometimes, my guys self-select a much cooler night temp then I would have guessed they like. I think the controversial 'night temp drops' is a good idea for many Red-foots, especially those from the Gran Chaco and Brazil, like Dale. Those areas experience a much wider temp fluctuation than the Northern animals.

Right now Dale's enclosure is 3ft X 2 1/2ft and he's 7 inches long and about 4 1/2 inches wide so we've decided to make him one that's 2 1/2ft X 6ft. I'm painting it right now and it should be ready to bring in the house on Sunday. His heat emitter is 150 watts and it sits about 10 inches away from his basking spot. He usually doesn't sit right under it only sometimes. Usually I'm finding him sitting next to or on top of his plants away from the heat emitter. I also have a heater that sits on top of his enclosure that I turn on quite a bit to warm up the room for him. I do find that the night temp. does not seem to bother him much.

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Candy, not to worry you but, I had Lil Bit do that. Which is what made me think things were not right with her. She had slowed down a bit but was still eating. Is Dale OK otherwise? Is he urinating and deficating OK? There may be other reasons for this behavior but she is the only one of mine that has done this.

Robyn I was holding him today and he puts his head out and touches my nose like aways. I put him in a soak and he pooped, but to tell you the truth I don't know about him peeing. I'm going to have to take him out and put him on the floor of my bedroom on a big towel and see if he does it. Everything else seems to be O.K. with him, but of course I'll be watching him closer now.

 

[mctlong]

How old is Dale and how long have you had him?

 

[Candy]

How old is Dale and how long have you had him?

Dale is around 4 years old and we've had him for 1 year Christmas Day.

 

[terryo]

Sometimes when it gets really cold outside I use two heat emitters in Pio's viv, because I don't like too much heat in my house. If the temp. goes in the high 90's in his viv, ....he will go into the water. My Three Toed will sit in the water for hours when she is outside, if it gets really hot out. I don't know why Dale did that, but this is what mine do occasionally.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I would do a check of the enclosure temperatures and take note if they have changed recently. As the house temperature changes (or even the heat gets turned on to maintain a temperature you had in summer, which can create drafts or decrease humidity), so does the enclosure. Other than that I hope nothing is wrong. Trevor sure gets moody sometimes but I can usually figure out why (we left him alone for the weekend, redecorated his enclosure, etc).

 

[Crazy1]

Candy sounds to me that it may be the heat or micro climates in Dales enclosure. I am glad to hear you are in the process of making him a larger one. Do you have a temp gun to check temps frequently if not I hightly suggest you get one they can be purchased at Harbor Freight for about $10.00. I felt it is a well spent investment for my torts. Careful placing him on the cold floor.

 

[Candy]

Thank you Kate and Robyn. I am going to check out the temp. gun. I've always wondered about those. Robyn I am also so happy about the enclosure. I've taken pictures of my husband and my son building it and me painting it and am going to post the finished product hopefully by next week. His enclosure now is sitting on a couple of crates in our boys room. His enclosure has about 4 inches of dirt (and moss and mulch) in it with some plants. I plan on putting about 6 to 8 inches of dirt in his new enclosure would it be O.K. to sit it on the ground in their room then. I'm figuring that the dirt in an insulator from the cold floor. What do you think?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Thank you Kate and Robyn. I am going to check out the temp. gun. I've always wondered about those. Robyn I am also so happy about the enclosure. I've taken pictures of my husband and my son building it and me painting it and am going to post the finished product hopefully by next week. His enclosure now is sitting on a couple of crates in our boys room. His enclosure has about 4 inches of dirt (and moss and mulch) in it with some plants. I plan on putting about 6 to 8 inches of dirt in his new enclosure would it be O.K. to sit it on the ground in their room then. I'm figuring that the dirt in an insulator from the cold floor. What do you think?

Candy.. nothing to even consider considering. Dale just wanted to 'soak' all night!!!

I would keep the temps consistant.. http://www.wunderground.com/global/Region/SA/2xST.html

..since "most" of the redfoots in the U.S. from Brazil come from the Bahia region.. close to the Equator..

Put the new table up off of the floor.. I have to encourage you to 'insulate' it from the floor -- legs at least a foot tall to raise it so you will then have 'space' under it to hide stuff [ which also acts as insulation ].

Maybe Dale is telling you he would rather "soak" at his own choice? Let him...

Terry K

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Thank you Kate and Robyn. I am going to check out the temp. gun. I've always wondered about those.

I've got the PE-1 from Tempgun.com, at Danny's recommendation. I love it.

 

[mctlong]

How old is Dale and how long have you had him?

Dale is around 4 years old and we've had him for 1 year Christmas Day.

I read an article not too long ago about hatchlings who were observed sitting in their water dish all night long. The behavior was related to dehydration. I'll forward you the article as soon as I find it. I can't remember the specifics. It might not apply to Dale since he's not a hatchling.

 

[Madkins007]

Regarding temps and drops, etc.: The Bahia region of Brazil is about 10 degrees south of the Equator and experiences a wide variety of temperatures with a moderate variation between highs and lows, and from one season to another. The further inland you travel, the higher you go so temps and humidity drop as well. Most of the region experiences about a 10 degree night temp drop.

It is a much different climate than the true tropical climate closer to the Equator. On the other hand, most Northern Red-foots experience a more savaanah-like climate than the truly tropical Yellow-foots.

I don't worry much about this anymore, however. My new habitat is big enough to offer a wide temperature range. One corner, about 1/6th of the total, is not directly heated and gets to the 70's- I often find torts sleeping there in the morning (not all of them, and usually one of the bigger ones). My 'night drop' is turning off the overhead heating and letting the soil heaters keep everything at about 85F in the heated zones. It is really nice to be able to offer a good thermocline (the fancy name for heat gradient.)

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Thank you Kate and Robyn. I am going to check out the temp. gun. I've always wondered about those. Robyn I am also so happy about the enclosure. I've taken pictures of my husband and my son building it and me painting it and am going to post the finished product hopefully by next week. His enclosure now is sitting on a couple of crates in our boys room. His enclosure has about 4 inches of dirt (and moss and mulch) in it with some plants. I plan on putting about 6 to 8 inches of dirt in his new enclosure would it be O.K. to sit it on the ground in their room then. I'm figuring that the dirt in an insulator from the cold floor. What do you think?

Unfortunately, the moisture in the soil will draw the cold into it from below. My habitat is sitting on top of an inch of pink foam rigid insulation sold for houses. I would advise you to get some of this- the thicker the better. The type of foam is not real vital- pink, blue or white is fine. It is pretty cheap and easy to work with.

You also may want to consider an in-soil heater. I am LOVING my FlexWatts from Big Apple Herp. They make so many elements of care so much easier in a larger habitat.

 

[Candy]

Thank you Terry, I'm hoping that's just it. I love the map you posted. I will insulate the bottom of Dale's enclosure.

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Thank you Stephanie. Where did you buy it ?

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Shelly I might think that, but I do soak him 2 to 3 times a day, but I will keep my eye on him.

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Thanks Madkins you're always full of information. The funny thing was that when I read your thread earlier I didn't finish it because I didn't go down to the bottom. I had told my husband what you and Terry had said about insulation and he said he would go and buy some at Big 5 and it's called insulite. It's what he uses when him and the boys go camping for Boy Scout to protect them when they're sleeping in their sleeping bags on the ground. He says that we can put it on the bottom and then put the dirt on top of it. He says that it doesn't compact so it would be good to use. Thanks for the information. I will check out the soil heater next. My husband wants me to do that too. Madkins, I just checked out that sight. Which one did you get the tape or the rope?

 

[Madkins007]

Thanks Madkins you're always full of information. The funny thing was that when I read your thread earlier I didn't finish it because I didn't go down to the bottom. I had told my husband what you and Terry had said about insulation and he said he would go and buy some at Big 5 and it's called insulite. It's what he uses when him and the boys go camping for Boy Scout to protect them when they're sleeping in their sleeping bags on the ground. He says that we can put it on the bottom and then put the dirt on top of it. He says that it doesn't compact so it would be good to use. Thanks for the information. I will check out the soil heater next. My husband wants me to do that too. Madkins, I just checked out that sight. Which one did you get the tape or the rope?

Ensolite is great stuff, but if you need a big chunk, insulation from Home Depot, etc. is cheaper.

I am using 11" wide FlexWatt heating strips/tape. You need to finish assembling it, but it is not hard, and you need to insulate it, which is also easy (I globbed mine up with silicone goop and used the insulators they sell also.)

I made up a 9' and a 7' strip for my almost 4x10 habitat and I positioned the strips so they leave a corner 'cold', and are about equidistant from the sides and each other. in hindsight, I would have run a 3" strip down the middle as well so they all ran a little less often.
\
The guys at Big Apple can help with how much you'll need, and a good thermostat so the strips stop heating when they hit the target temp. I'm just using a fairly cheap ZooMed thermostat, but Big Apple has some nice ones.

The strips only get to I think it is 120F max (don't quote me on this) so are considered safe on most surfaces, but I laid some sand down under mine for added safety. Then I covered it with a mix of bagged topsoil, hardwood mulch, shredded sphagnum moss, and sand (I was not very scientific, I was just aiming for good drainage (sand), some moisture-holding abilities (moss), and plain dirt). The mix is compacted to about 1.5" or so by the time the torts have tromped on it. I then covered it with some cypress mulch so they would not get too muddy or touch wet soil.

I need to add more loose stuff to the hiding place- they keep packing the moss and it is a hard place to reach to refluff, so I am going to add more mulch there.

Once in place, the strips work by heating the water around them, which carries the heat around in the soil, and also creates water vapor right above the soil. My entire bedroom the habitat is in is running at 40-60% humidity just from this action- feels great in there! (My habitat is uncovered, so I have to water 2xdaily.) You'll have to watch at first to se how often you need to water.

I alternate between a cheap pressure sprayer and a watering can. The can lets me water large areas deeply and quickly, and the sprayer creates even more humidity and a longer 'rain' effect. I use warm water in both and water in the morning when I feed them. On really dry days I have had to water at about 4-6pm as well.

I also have a corner I dig into to make sure that I am not pooling water at the bottom of the habitat. If I do, I'll just mist until it dries up some.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

The Bahia region of Brazil is about 10 degrees south of the Equator and experiences a wide variety of temperatures with a moderate variation between highs and lows, and from one season to another.

Mark 10 degrees is close enough! That's not enough variation to consider! Why are you splitting-hairs AGAIN? Where did you find the "seasonal" temp variances for that region? You're not accountable.

As long as the LOWS are no lower than mid-70's [ ambient ] there is no concern.

All of that "electronic" stuff has to be overkill and too costly.. not to mention time consuming!

Terry K

 

[pyxistort]

Regarding temps and drops, etc.: The Bahia region of Brazil is about 10 degrees south of the Equator and experiences a wide variety of temperatures with a moderate variation between highs and lows, and from one season to another. The further inland you travel, the higher you go so temps and humidity drop as well. Most of the region experiences about a 10 degree night temp drop.

Mark, Do you mean 10 degree Celsius drop?

Scott

 

[Madkins007]

Mark 10 degrees is close enough! That's not enough variation to consider! Why are you splitting-hairs AGAIN? Where did you find the "seasonal" temp variances for that region? You're not accountable.

As long as the LOWS are no lower than mid-70's [ ambient ] there is no concern.

All of that "electronic" stuff has to be overkill and too costly.. not to mention time consuming!

Terry K

Are you sure you are not oversimplifying? The tropical zone reaches from about 23N to 23S. Bahia is about 10S, or about 1/2 of the entire tropical zone from the Equator. The climate in the Bahia is very different than the climate that Yellow-foots on the Equator would experience- cooler, drier, more variation. 10N is San Jose- which also has a lot different climate than the Equator.

You have said in other conversations that WHERE a tortoise comes from in South America is important- why is all of South America suddenly the same climate?

Accountability: This is easy enough to locate using the data for Salvador and Brasilia (although Brasilia is a bit south of our target zone. I got the specific info I used from Vinke and Vetter's book "South American Tortoises" but any climatic chart of those cities will confirm it.

Electronics stuff: The only piece of electronics in my tortoise room is the digital IR thermometer for $10.

The heat strips are not electronic, just electrical and ran $3.89 a foot, with a few bucks for the plug and other parts.

The thermostat is an old ZooMed I already had. It is a mechanical design rather than electronic and cost me about $19.

Once I got it set up, which took me about half an hour, the ongoing care is to water the soil (which I would have to do anyway). The only other thing I do is check the temps every week or so.

The habitat is now warm, humid, and inexpensive to run- there is no way I consider it 'overkill'.

Come on, Terry- I'm cheap and lazy. No way would I put an expensive, finicky system in place. We are not all lucky enough to live in a relatively mild place like you do!

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Regarding temps and drops, etc.: The Bahia region of Brazil is about 10 degrees south of the Equator and experiences a wide variety of temperatures with a moderate variation between highs and lows, and from one season to another. The further inland you travel, the higher you go so temps and humidity drop as well. Most of the region experiences about a 10 degree night temp drop.

Mark, Do you mean 10 degree Celsius drop?

Scott

The article in 'South American Tortoises' said 80f in the days, and 70f at nights as an example. The bit to remember with night drops is that the hiding places they choose are chosen partly to minimize the differences.

I am not a big believer in offering much of a night drop- all I do is turn off the heat lamp and let my secondary heating (the strips in my case) take care of the night.