thank you hlogic,as i said i dont know if what i do is right and if its not i am open to critisism as we are all learners,but i dont want to learn the hard way.my reasons for the way things are is because i dont want a pet that i can only sit and admire from afar,tortoises are very intelligent and noone must tell me they dont understand when you talk to them,i call mine and they instantly show up,but i dont want to make a bad mistake with them and lose them .so any advice will be taken on board love.thanx