Yearling leopard's behavior changed

[Macheteslaststep]

I have two leopard tortoises. My older male, Tank, is very outgoing and now only pulls in his shell when I scare him by coming up too close too fast or something like that. My yearling on the other hand has been hiding constantly and always where it's cooler in the enclosure. Is he too hot or is this just a stage that I don't remember my other one going through? He is eating and is active (he's not always in the same spot when I go downstairs). He has no signs of an RI or other illness. Maybe it's because I used to let Tank roam around all the time and haven't done it with Dozer? Is he just unsocialized or in a phase? He was more outgoing before. Also, if I do let him come out-how do I if at all possible, prevent poo? And no, I do not know the temps. My thermometer busted and I have to pick one up tonite once the fiance gets home.

Sara

P.S.- They are only 2 years and three inches apart in age. There has been no bullying or aggression.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say about his behavior. But could what you are describing simply be the differences in personality? I recently had 2 Sulcata...one is an outgoing fun obnoxious beast and the other a shy antisocial recalcitrant animal...just differences in personality...

 

[egyptiandan]

It sounds like stress to me Sara. A change in behavior like that is saying that he isn't liking where he is and thats most likely the company.
I think if you seperate them, at least while they are inside and small, that you will see a change in Dozer.

Danny

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I didn't see what she meant about change in habits until I just read Danny's post. I didn't see that you meant hiding all the time was different then normal...My sister taught me years ago that while we might not see actual aggressive behavior, mental bullying happens a whole lot...
and this my friend Danny, is why I said I was going to give less advice. I didn't see what she meant by a change in habits. That should have been an easy thing for me to see...It's distressing to say the least...

 

[egyptiandan]

Don't worry about it Maggie I've got your back

Danny

 

[Macheteslaststep]

It's ok Maggie, because Dozer does have a different personality than Tank anyway. I know for a fact that there is no bullying (I have a nanny cam named mom that stays at home all day, and if even one of them walks differently I hear about it ) I remember the first time mom told me Tank was a boy...that was kind of funny. What would mental bullying look like? (I just re-read the post)

What could he be stressed about? Nothing has changed in the past month except that I cleaned the enclosure. Could that still be affecting him? I used the same bedding and put everything back exactly the same. Maybe he did want me to change things around? I can lift the ramp up so that Dozer has the second floor all to himself and see if that helps. Would that be enough seperation? I don't have room for another enclosure, I made this one big enough that if they're both males I can put a divider in later on. The enclosure is 6x3x2 with a second floor of 3x3. I guess that could be ok for him to see if it is Tank that he doesn't like at the moment.

As a side note, has anyone used a tortoise statue or something of the like for a male tortoise? He keeps eyeing up the piece of log in there...

Sara

 

[Yvonne G]

If you've ever had a dog or a cat, you KNOW that animals can read your mind. I would think to myself that it was time to go to the store and before I could get up out of my chair, the dog would be at the door wagging her tail.

Its the same with tortoises. The "bully" doesn't have to overtly do anything. He sends a mental thought or image to the smaller tortoise, telling him he is NOT wanted in this habitat and this causes the smaller or shyer one to stay hidden or to stay as far away from the bully as he can get. In bad cases, the shy tortoise stops eating and just seems to want to die.

You either have to separate them or provide a larger habitat. There needs to be more than one hiding place and two different feeding stations. Also, lots and lots of visual barriers so the bully can't always see the shy one.

Yvonne

 

[Macheteslaststep]

Larger? Oh my. As I said, I can seperate them just by not putting down the ramp between the two floors. They do have multiple hiding places and food bowls. They always eat together though, even after my little one started hiding a lot. Dozer used to hide all the time for the first almost 4 months that I had him, that's why I also asked if it could maybe be a phase? As I said I just don't remember Tank doing it, but then again they are two seperate tortoises with two seperate personalities. Dozer has always been more shy and takes a lot longer to come out of his shell in general. Thanks for the ideas though, I will keep them seperated and see if that helps.

Sara

 

[Macheteslaststep]

Update!!

Well, it's been 2 weeks and he's still hiding most of the time. He is definately eating though. I began feeding Dozer in a different area than Tank (on the top floor, he has not had access to the lower level since the original post). I still have not seen him eat, but the food goes missing and he poos. I'm going to see what I have around today and try to make a few more hides for him. Maybe this will help more? He always hides in the corner behind the fake plant. He has a half log and a box, but he picks the corner...go figure

Sara

 

[alice]

hello

i just thought i would add to this tread as i have a similar situation.

i have two leopards living together, my eldest is 4-5 years old and is female and my youngest is 1 years old sex not 100% sure off.

however they are not far off each other size wise and there is no agression what so ever from the female.

just that my yearling tends to be more shy, and he does stay in his hide more than the eldest does, but i feel this is down to being a little tortoise, in the wild the smaller they are, the easier they are for predators to get them so they naturally hide away more.

i expect that when he gets older this shy-ness will ease off.

dont take my word for it though, this is just my oppinion

alice.

 

[oswego tort lover]

chelonians can't read mind's send mental thoughts or images any more than sane humans can. the simple truth is having kept leopard's for 21 yrs i can say that i have seen larger leo's bite at smaller leo's. always over food.only one or two at a time no marks. the smaller tortoise gets the idea fast. if you can feed them at different ends of your container that may help................ed