The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you so much! I have sent him an email for some information. I remembered another question, the pet store gave me a fluorescent UV bulb and told me to keep it on 24/7 for a year for heat as well as a red reptile bulb. I am going to get the basking bulb you listed today for basking but what else would I get for daytime heat just for now until I get a new enclosure from Mark? I read in comments on here they don’t need UV 24/7 and now I’m not sure how to heat this cage until we have something else. Obviously I’m going to work on something asap but I definitely need to fix this situation. We covered the top (for now) and we’re staying right at 80 degrees outside of the red reptile light but how else can I achieve that or what should I do?

Sigh, pet stores are so annoying for giving out all the wrong info! I’m so glad that you’ve made your way here!

You’re absolutely right, they don’t need uv 24/7, they don’t even need the full 12 hours most recommend, with the uv timing, most other sources of information will tell you 12hours of uv. This is essentially an old fashioned rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the presumption that once the basking light or ambient lighting is on, ie the ‘sun’, that uv must coexist the same amount of hours. Fact is, uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, anyone with a uv meter will confirm this. No tortoise is blasted with 12 hours of uv in the wild, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity.
The uv bulbs are much more expensive to replace once their uv strength diminishes, so it’s definitely best having it on a 4 hour timer that provides them with all the uv they need, saving your bulb life.
Then some cheaper led lighting for your ambient 12 hour light cycle as well as the basking light on the same 12hrs, then for night heat and to make up ambient heat, get yourself a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) they are a none light emitting heat bulb, it will run 24/7 on a thermostat(thermostat is a must for these!), hope that all makes sense

I have no idea why they’ve suggested to keep your uv light on 24/7, that’s absolutely ridiculous, they need a day/night cycle, do you have a photo of the uv they sold you? Also those red bulbs shouldn’t be used, as you don’t have ceramics yet, you may have no choice to use it for night heat until you can get the right bulbs

Hopefully you might find this useful to have a look over, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much! I have sent him an email for some information. I remembered another question, the pet store gave me a fluorescent UV bulb and told me to keep it on 24/7 for a year for heat as well as a red reptile bulb. I am going to get the basking bulb you listed today for basking but what else would I get for daytime heat just for now until I get a new enclosure from Mark? I read in comments on here they don’t need UV 24/7 and now I’m not sure how to heat this cage until we have something else. Obviously I’m going to work on something asap but I definitely need to fix this situation. We covered the top (for now) and we’re staying right at 80 degrees outside of the red reptile light but how else can I achieve that or what should I do?

This is toward the end of the link I left you in post #239:
Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

 

[Cristy0502]

This is toward the end of the link I left you in post #239:
Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Oops. You’re right. I was in a panic and emotional and didn’t click on that and read it. Kids are off to school and I’m sitting down with my coffee and a notebook now and reading. I really appreciate your help. My husband and I are going back to the pet store today to see what they can do as far as a refund on some of this garbage they’ve given us so we can spend the money in a better place and we are going to talk to some friends we know with other pets that might be interested in a baby tortoise but we will make sure anyone we talk to has this forum as well first. I feel like an awful human because I really thought I was doing great research and I was just led astray. I’m so thankful for this forum and I’m sure I will be its most active member going forward. My son got his tortoises this morning as a surprise for his 12th birthday and is so overjoyed but we explained that one is just going to be a foster for now and he was totally understanding of it. That kid is so awesome. I can’t wait for this lifelong journey with him and our new baby together. I can’t thank you enough. Please accept this long distance hug.

 

[Tom]

Oops. You’re right. I was in a panic and emotional and didn’t click on that and read it. Kids are off to school and I’m sitting down with my coffee and a notebook now and reading. I really appreciate your help. My husband and I are going back to the pet store today to see what they can do as far as a refund on some of this garbage they’ve given us so we can spend the money in a better place and we are going to talk to some friends we know with other pets that might be interested in a baby tortoise but we will make sure anyone we talk to has this forum as well first. I feel like an awful human because I really thought I was doing great research and I was just led astray. I’m so thankful for this forum and I’m sure I will be its most active member going forward. My son got his tortoises this morning as a surprise for his 12th birthday and is so overjoyed but we explained that one is just going to be a foster for now and he was totally understanding of it. That kid is so awesome. I can’t wait for this lifelong journey with him and our new baby together. I can’t thank you enough. Please accept this long distance hug.

Almost everyone goes through this. Most of the info out there is old, out-dated, and just plain wrong. Don't beat yourself up. You put int he time and effort. You did everything you could possibly do and had no reason to think otherwise. You get an "A" as a tortoise keeper for trying. We all learn as we go, myself included. This community has helped me learn a tremendous amount over the years. There are some fantastic tortoise keepers here.

You are a welcome addition to the group, and I too hope your family has many happy years with your new tortoise.

 

[herpgal88]

Hi! I get my baby star tortoise in a few weeks. I was originally going to start on a table. Deposit was already down when I learned better, and now have an enclosure with dual thermostats and fully enclosed (even the top) with internal fixtures available. It’s about a 30” x 22” (weird Chinese size). Upgrading one of my skinks and figured that would be a good place to start a solo baby tort. My big issue is needing to grab a solar gauge because I have a LED UV in there, but really not sure on the efficacy. What reading should I be looking for once I get it?

Breeder soaks daily, so yay for that!

I’m not expecting this tank to last all that long. Surface area wise, it’s actually a bit bigger than a standard 40 gallon breeder. Breeder said this would see me through about a year to 18 months—does this group agree with that? Also, at what age/weight would a transition to a tortoise table make sense? I have room for about an 10’ x 4’ table but am not limited on height so will probably make it a double decker.

Food wise, I’ve started seeds for a grass blend, clover, three varieties of dandelion (chickory, garnet stem, and common), plantain, and nasturtium. I was planning on grabbing that herbal tortoise hay from TortioiseSupply and some Mazuri pellets. My local pet store also routinely has the cactus pads available. I’m trying to grow everything indoors. I live in the south and the city randomly fogs to kill mosquitoes, and I have no idea what impact if any such airborne pesticide use causes to plants and such outdoors.

Do I seem to be on the right track?

 

[Tom]

Do I seem to be on the right track?

Mostly yes, you do. Hello and welcome!!!

The LED UV lights are too narrow of a spectrum, and as of now we don't generally recommend them. I've been experimenting with the ones from ZooMed that are more balanced and have more extra LEDs in them and I have no problems to report with lizards or baby tortoises yet. but the Chinese screw in types are probably not effective or good for them. We all generally agree here that the HO type T5 type UV tubes are the best substitute for real sunshine when needed.

There is no age when a closed chamber doesn't work better for maintaining heat and humidity. I would not recommend an open table for a star of any age unless the entire room I heated to 80+ and humidified. Over there in India, the "dry" season sees humidity of 60-80%. The rainy season is 80-100%. An open topped indoor enclosure even in a humid state over here is going to be WAYYYYY too dry for an Indian star. All of the electric heat drys them out and desiccates everything. 4x10 feet or even 3x8 feet is enough for an adult Indian star.

Sounds like you have a good food variety. Do whatever you can to add even more variety. I don't have any experience with the government spewing toxic fumes all over everything, but that would **** me off immensely. Glad they don't do that here. I'm not sure what that does to all the local plants, but I'm sure it's wreaking havoc on the beneficial insect population along with the mosquitoes. Why don't they use non toxic methods like those mosquito dunks, or gambusia fish?

 

[herpgal88]

Mostly yes, you do. Hello and welcome!!!

The LED UV lights are too narrow of a spectrum, and as of now we don't generally recommend them. I've been experimenting with the ones from ZooMed that are more balanced and have more extra LEDs in them and I have no problems to report with lizards or baby tortoises yet. but the Chinese screw in types are probably not effective or good for them. We all generally agree here that the HO type T5 type UV tubes are the best substitute for real sunshine when needed.

There is no age when a closed chamber doesn't work better for maintaining heat and humidity. I would not recommend an open table for a star of any age unless the entire room I heated to 80+ and humidified. Over there in India, the "dry" season sees humidity of 60-80%. The rainy season is 80-100%. An open topped indoor enclosure even in a humid state over here is going to be WAYYYYY too dry for an Indian star. All of the electric heat drys them out and desiccates everything. 4x10 feet or even 3x8 feet is enough for an adult Indian star.

Sounds like you have a good food variety. Do whatever you can to add even more variety. I don't have any experience with the government spewing toxic fumes all over everything, but that would **** me off immensely. Glad they don't do that here. I'm not sure what that does to all the local plants, but I'm sure it's wreaking havoc on the beneficial insect population along with the mosquitoes. Why don't they use non toxic methods like those mosquito dunks, or gambusia fish?

Awesome, thanks so much! I do have a spare 3' Lumenize UVB, but that's unfortunately longer than the tank and I'd have no clue how to mount it. Might have to get a shorter one and experiment with that. Especially as I was reading they don't need super high levels all day long, the Lumenize (by Arcadia) lets you ramp up and down. My milk frogs absolutely love it and while they're pricy, they definitely seem worth it.

I haven't seen too many covered table options, but I'm now rather insanely curious. I think my second 'story' will help maintain humidity on the bottom level. I do have a few fish tanks as well so in the summer, the house stays around 65% humidity on its own. Winter would be the struggle. I have had a lot of luck with acrylic over screen mesh for my dart frogs--their enclosure stays around 90% with next to no struggle. Will definitely be interesting once I start building and testing. Question--I use an automated mister system for my dart frogs but haven't seen people mention them much for torts. Is there a drawback to using them on the humid side of an enclosure, especially for a humidity-loving species?

 

[Tom]

Awesome, thanks so much! I do have a spare 3' Lumenize UVB, but that's unfortunately longer than the tank and I'd have no clue how to mount it. Might have to get a shorter one and experiment with that. Especially as I was reading they don't need super high levels all day long, the Lumenize (by Arcadia) lets you ramp up and down. My milk frogs absolutely love it and while they're pricy, they definitely seem worth it.

I haven't seen too many covered table options, but I'm now rather insanely curious. I think my second 'story' will help maintain humidity on the bottom level. I do have a few fish tanks as well so in the summer, the house stays around 65% humidity on its own. Winter would be the struggle. I have had a lot of luck with acrylic over screen mesh for my dart frogs--their enclosure stays around 90% with next to no struggle. Will definitely be interesting once I start building and testing. Question--I use an automated mister system for my dart frogs but haven't seen people mention them much for torts. Is there a drawback to using them on the humid side of an enclosure, especially for a humidity-loving species?

65% ambient humidity in a room will translate to very low humid in an open table with heat lamps and ambient heat.

I've dabbled with two story enclosures, and I don't care for them. I don't think they necessarily do harm, but I didn't like how they worked for tortoises. I do like them for some snakes and some lizard species.

I also don't care for covered tables. They never worked well for me. What works is a closed chamber with a solid top, all the heating and lighting contained inside, and front opening doors. There is no need for misting systems in an enclosure like this. If things dry out so much that you need a misting system then you have far too much evaporative cooling going on. Good for frogs, but to so good for tortoises. Contain your humidity and you don't have to keep adding more water. If I ran a misting system in one of my closed chambered, it would flood in a day or two.

As an example, I used to keep my cribos on Sani-chips, at the breeders recommendation. With a water bowl and a humid hide, I had no problem keeping ambient humidity at 80% with a water bowl and a humid hide. Now I use coco chips, but look at the gauge here:

 

[WhitneyMtree]

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species.

Babies hatch during the start of the rainy season. It is hot, very humid, rainy, and marshy in some areas. There are puddles and lush green growing food everywhere. In some areas there is a dry season, but the hot monsoon season is when babies hatch, and babies find humid microclimates to hide in during drier times. In extreme conditions they aestivate and don't eat or grow at all when its hot and dry. Keeping your hatchling in a dry, desert-like enclosure, is a big mistake and an invitation to disaster. It is also very un-natural for these animals. Damp substrate, a water bowl, and a humid hide should all be pre-requisites. Along with this, warm temps day and night are necessary. Sulcatas, leopards and stars are NOT prone to shell rot at all, and they do not get respiratory infections in these damp conditions as long as temps are kept up. I shoot for no lower than 80 degrees day or night year round, and all three of these heat loving species do well with a day time ambient approaching 90 degrees. Humidity is at 80+% all the time. Most people keep them too cool and too dry. Adults can tolerate colder temps and drier conditions in some circumstances, but this care sheet is for hatchlings and babies and is aimed at helping them thrive, not just survive. I know the books, the breeders and the "experts" all say the opposite of this. They are wrong. They've been wrong for 30 years. For 20 of those years I was wrong right along with them. Some of us have learned and advanced. Some have not. Keep this in mind when consulting a vet, or a potential breeder or seller that you want to buy from. As soon as they contradict this info and tell you "this is a desert species", you will know NOT to buy from them.

Some General Notes:

• Set up your enclosure, run it, check it and make adjustments BEFORE you bring home a new tortoise. Babies are easy if the set up is correct. Babies aren't delicate or difficult. When babies are not started correctly is when people have problems with them. Babies have a smaller margin of error due to their smaller body mass, if you've made mistakes, or if the enclosure and equipment isn't already set up and at the right temperatures.
• You won't find most of what you need to set up a tortoise at a pet store. What you will find is expensive stuff that is bad for your tortoise and lots of bad advice. This is true even at most reptile specialty places. Where to get tortoise supplies then? The hardware store or large department stores. There are a few exceptions like reptile thermostats, some reptile heating elements, and UV tubes. I get these from on-line sellers.
• If you are going the the grocery store to buy tortoise food, you are feeding the wrong stuff. If you have no other choice but to use grocery store food due to your climate and weather for part of the year, it will need to be amended to make it more suitable as tortoise food. More on this later.
• It is my hope that this care sheet finds you BEFORE you buy a tortoise. Most breeders start their babies too dry. The end result is stunting, pyramiding and sometimes death weeks or months later. Don't get a baby from someone who starts them dry, on dry substrate, outdoors all day, and doesn't soak daily.
• Some common mistakes to avoid, with more explanation later: Buying from the wrong (dry) source, getting advice and products from a pet store, free roaming indoors or out, feeding a diet of mostly grocery store foods without amendments, not soaking daily, cool temps, wrong UV bulbs, wrong basking bulbs, letting dogs around your tortoise, small enclosures, open topped enclosures, sand or soil substrates, bad vet care or advice, too much outside time for little babies, keeping a pair of tortoises in the same enclosure...

Heating And Lighting:
I use a 45-65 watt incandescent flood bulb on a 12 hour timer and adjust the height of the fixture to get a basking area of around 95-100 directly under the bulb. In some closed chambers I go with lower wattage bulbs. This depends on many factors and no one can tell you exactly what wattage you will need in your enclosure. Let your thermometer be your guide. I use a ceramic heating element or a radiant heat panel set to 80 degrees on a reptile thermostat to maintain my ambient temperature in the enclosure. The basking lamp should raise the day time ambient temperature into the high 80s or low 90s. Ambient should be no lower than 80, but drifting up to 90 during the heat of the day is good. The thermostat will keep your CHE or RHP off during these times, but ready to click on after the basking lamp clicks off and the ambient temperature starts to drop at night. I use LED bulbs when I want to brighten up the whole enclosure and I run these on the same timer as the basking bulb. There are other ways to do some of this, but trial and error have shown time and time again, that the above is what works the best. Don't use "spot" bulbs, reptile specialty bulbs, halogen bulbs, any cfl, or mercury vapor bulbs. You want a plain old, regular incandescent flood bulb from the hardware store. I buy them in six or twelve packs, so I always have extras on hand. They always go out at the most inopportune times.

UV:
Tortoises need regular exposure to the right kind of UV rays in order to make vitamin D2 into D3 to be able to utilize dietary calcium. Real sunshine is best, but be careful. Shade should always be available as babies can overheat and die surprisingly quickly. If your tortoise can get some regular sunning time in a safe outdoor enclosure, even just a couple of times a week for most of the year, you don't need any artificial UV. Its okay if you have to skip two or three weeks of sunning time during a cold winter spell. If you live somewhere with long frozen winters, then some artificial UV might be in order for that time of year. I no longer recommend mercury vapor bulbs for several reasons, but florescent HO (High Output) UV tubes work very well according to my UV meter. CFL type UV bulbs are ineffective as UV sources and sometime burn reptile eyes. No type of compact florescent bulb should be used over a tortoise. Also get yourself a Solarmeter 6.5. Without a UV meter, you are guessing about the UV levels in your enclosure, no different than guessing the temperature without a thermometer. At least without a thermometer you can still feel the temperature with your hand. You can't feel UV levels. These meters pay for themselves in short order since you won't be replacing perfectly good working bulbs every six months, as the sellers recommend.

Too much outside time is bad for babies. It slows their growth tremendously and causes pyramiding. I've done many side-by-side experiments with clutch mates over the years to determine this fact. My general rule is an hour of access to sunshine per inch of tortoise. Once they reach around 5 inches, outside all day is fine, weather permitting, but soak daily and continue to let them sleep in their humid closed chamber every night until they get a bit bigger.

The Enclosure:
I have not been able to make any open topped enclosure work to my satisfaction. Low sided open topped enclosures like tortoise tables and sweater boxes are the worst. No amount of covering, or attempts to slow heat and humidity loss have worked well for me. There is just no way to keep the warm humid air where you want it. Closed chambers are the way to go. Maintaining whatever temperature and humidity you want is easy and efficient in a closed chamber. They use a lot less electricity because all of your heat and humidity is contained with nowhere to go. It also makes maintaining warm night temps a snap. Open tops allow all your warm humid air to escape up and into the room where your enclosure sits. Even if you cover most of the top, the heat lamps create a chimney effect and draw your heat and humidity up and out. Having the heat lamps outside, or on top of, the enclosure also lets the majority of the electrically generated heat you are creating float up up and away. A closed chamber contains all the heat and humidity. It works best if all the heating and lighting equipment is INSIDE the enclosure with the tortoise. Any other way is a compromise and less than ideal. Maintaining a small open topped box at 80 degrees with 80% humidity in a regular sized room that is 70 degrees and 20% humidity is VERY difficult, if not impossible in a practical sense. A closed chamber makes it easy.
Here are pictures of the plain basic closed chambers that I use to start babies:
View attachment 291552
View attachment 291554
You can make it much more fancy and add plants and decorations if you want. I'm going for simplicity and I spend time making their outdoor enclosures more fantastic. When done correctly, your baby will only be in this enclosure for a year or two, and then it will be time to move outside full time with a heated night box, or get much larger indoor accommodations if this is what your climate dictates.

What if you already bought a glass tank or wooden tortoise enclosure? How can you make that one work? You really can't. Covering the top and trying to contain the heat and humidity is better than nothing, but the sooner you resign yourself to buying or building the right kind of enclosure, the sooner you and your tortoise will reap the benefits. Almost everyone gets bad info from the breeder, pet store, vets, and all over the internet. I'm sorry this happens and sorry you bought all the wrong stuff, but it helps no one when a person keeps trying to jam that square peg into a round hole. Think it over, take a deep breath, and just go get the correct stuff now that you know. I encourage people to return the items to the pet shop and tell them why. Eventually they will learn and stop selling dangerous, bad, and useless items to people.

You need to know, and periodically adjust your temperatures. You need to regularly check warm side, cool side, basking spot and night temps, and adjust as needed. Every enclosure is different and they even change with the seasons in most households. It is not enough to screw a bulb in and walk away. Check those temps, and make adjustments, preferably BEFORE the baby even comes home. I like to use an infrared temp gun AND digital thermometers for this purpose. Check your temps early and often.

Enclosure Size:
Simply put: The bigger the better. I start babies in a 30x48 inch closed chamber. As a minimum, I would suggest no smaller than 36"x18" for a tiny hatchling, but you'll need to upgrade quickly. They need room to roam around. Once you put in the food and water bowls, the humid hide, and any decorations or potted plants, there is hardly any room left over to walk. Tortoises do not tend to do as well as some other types of reptiles when stuffed into small enclosures. They need room to roam inside their safe heated enclosures, and the floor is not a safe option. Don't think that you'll use a smaller enclosure, and just let Sheldon out to roam the floor for some exercise. This almost always ends in disaster. Its bad for your tortoise and impaction, sickness, injury, or death is the usual result. "But, but, but... I make it safe and supervise closely..." says every person until the day that disaster eventually strikes and they realize they were wrong. Its a terrible sickening feeling to hold a dead tortoise in your hand. Don't put yourself through this. Make a large enclosure. Don't have room for a large enclosure? Get a different pet that can live in a smaller enclosure that you have room for. Tortoises aren't good pets for everyone. For a sulcata, even 4x8' is only going to last a year or two. You might get three years with it for a star, leopard or slower growing sulcata, but that is optimistic. Outdoor enclosures can be even larger. Babies will NOT get lost or overwhelmed in 10x10 foot enclosure. In the wild they roam far greater distances than that.

Humid Hide Boxes:
This offers the tortoise a more humid place to retreat to and sleep and can simulate some of the more damp micro-climates they might utilize in the wild. It is as simple as getting a $2 black dishwashing tub from Walmart, flipping it upside down and cutting out a small door hole. I keep the substrate under the tub more damp than the surrounding substrate and it works great. You can also use plastic shoe boxes. Sphagnum moss is unnecessary and potentially dangerous since they eat it, and it can cause an impaction. The humid hide is a very important detail that should not be overlooked. Half logs and flower pots on their sides do not work. They are not closed in enough.

Substrate:
There are only three viable options. Coco coir, orchid bark, and cypress mulch. All of these can be purchased in bulk at most hardware or garden center stores at a tremendous savings. I don't like coco coir for these species because its too messy. I don't like cypress mulch because the pieces aren't uniform, some pieces are too big or too sharp, and because it smells like the swamp that is came from. If these two are all you can find, then go ahead and use them. They are safe and suitable. Fine grade orchid bark works the best. Its cheap, easy, holds moisture well, doesn't stink, easy to clean, easy for babies to walk on, not an ingestion hazard, etc... I recommend against any store bought soil, "Pets At Home" reptile bedding with the little white limestone bits in it, wood shavings or chips, ground walnut shell, corn cob bedding, rabbit pellets, compressed grass pellet bedding, newspaper pellets, hay, cedar, or any amount of sand. None of those are safe or suitable for an indoor tortoise enclosure.

Water Dishes:
Plain old terra cotta plant saucers work best. They come in a variety of sizes to suit any size tortoise, they offer good traction to little wet tortoise feet, they have low sides, they are cheap so you can buy extras, and they are shallow so your tortoise won't drown if it happens to flip over and land upside down in the water bowl. Sink the bowl into the substrate for best results. I prefer to give babies two water bowls. Do NOT use the typical ramped pet store bowls. These are great for snakes and lizards, but they can literally be death traps for tortoises. Clean your terra cotta saucer as often as needed. The more they track food and substrate into it, and the more they poop in it, the better. This means they are comfortable using their bowl, and that is great news. Just rinse and refill as many times a day as you need to. A water bowl that stays clean and untouched all day is a water bowl that is not being used for one reason or another. This is a bad sign, and it means your tortoise is one step closer to dehydration.

Soaking:
I recommend ALL hatchlings of ALL species be soaked in 85-95 degree water for at least 20-30 minutes every day. I use a tall sided opaque tub and keep the water depth about a third to half way up the body. If you have a humid enclosure with a humid hide and a water bowl, it is totally fine to skip a day here and there. Soaking only once a week and using a dry enclosure is not enough in my opinion, and I would not buy a hatchling that had been started that way. Once the tortoise gets to about 100 grams, I start skipping a day now and then. I gradually taper it down as they gain size. How often I soak older tortoises depends on a lot of factors, the current weather and season being two big ones. I soak more often when its hot and dry. If you live in a warm, humid, rainy climate, and your tortoise is exposed to these conditions, soaking less often is probably fine, but it still wont hurt anything to do it. You cannot soak too much or for too long. Soaking does not do any harm whatsoever. It doesn't make them poop too much and not digest their food, it doesn't upset their "water balance", whatever that is, it doesn't give them shell rot or respiratory infections, and it is NOT unnatural in any way. "But, but, but... Who soaks them every day in nature???" These babies hatch at the start of the RAINY season in the wild. Its raining on them frequently, and puddles form all over the place. Keep the soak water warm for the entire soak. If you are in a hurry, 10 minutes is enough. If you are forgetful or get distracted, an hour will do no harm.

Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems to help those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a year.

Outdoor Enclosures:
This is a MUST in my opinion. Tortoises are solar powered, need lots of walking room, and benefit greatly from some time in the great outdoors. With hatchlings I start with short excursions of only an hour a day, followed by a soak on the way in. As they gain size, I like to leave them out longer and longer each day, weather permitting, until they eventually live outside full time with a heated night box of some sort, where climate allows. Outside time must be done with great care as there are many dangers. They can overheat, be eaten or mauled, or escape. Here is one simple idea. A large kiddie pool or horse watering trough could also work. If you don't have a suitable grassy area, you can put a plywood bottom on this with wheels and legs, and move it around. Do NOT let your baby roam free outside. You will lose it eventually, and you'll be unable to explain how it happened so fast when you were watching so carefully. Its a sickening feeling. Don't put yourself through this. Use an enclosure and make it large. Also, if you have a dog, or people who come to visit bring a dog, your tortoise is in grave danger. Be careful. EVERY dog will chew up a tortoise. It doesn't matter how nice and loving a dog it is. Tortoises are seen as chew toys by dogs. Don't let this happen to your tortoise. Physically prevent it with fencing and/or correct housing. Don't leave it to chance. It is a horrible sickening feeling holding a mauled tortoise in your hands. Don't put yourself through this.
View attachment 291555

Pyramiding:
This is the subject of many threads in itself. I will simply state here what I know to be true based on my experience, my experiments, conversations with people who live other countries and study tortoises, people who have kept them for decades here in the U.S., and personal observations of thousands of tortoises in all manners of keeping styles.

There are many things listed as causes of pyramiding. I can refute each one with multiple examples. Lack of UV, lack of calcium, too much protein, too much food, the wrong foods, fast growth, wrong temperatures, small enclosures, not enough exercise, indoor housing, etc. None of these factors CAUSES pyramiding. They can all be somehow related to it, but they don't cause it. Simply put: Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. This is true for any species of tortoise, even the ones that don't typically pyramid. To prevent pyramiding I use a closed chamber and keep the ambient temperature 80 or higher all the time, I keep humidity at 80% or higher, I offer a humid hide that holds 95-100% humidity, I soak daily to ensure good hydration, and I spray the carapace with plain water several times a day. Sulcatas hatch during the African rainy season. It is hot, humid, rainy and marshy. It makes no sense to keep them in a dry box, with dry substrate, and a hot desiccating bulb overhead. Simulating this rainy season has grown me hundreds of smooth leopard and sulcata babies, as well as a few other species too. There are literally thousands of examples of other people succeeding using the same basic philosophy here on this forum. So please, don't keep sulcatas and leopards in desert-style enclosures. It is not healthy for them. They are not the least bit prone to shell rot, like some other species are, and they DO NOT get respiratory infections from high humidity as long as temps are 80 or higher everywhere in the enclosure, day and night. I don't say these things and come up with these assertions lightly. Its not that I raised one tortoise this way, and everything went okay. I have literally raised hundreds of tortoises of multiple species this way and had nothing but success. My methods and success rate have been repeated by thousands of tortoise keepers all over the globe. We have more than 10 years of living healthy examples to back up these assertions.

If you want to prevent pyramiding, simply do the above stuff.
View attachment 291556
View attachment 291557
View attachment 291558

Questions and conversation are welcome. The goal here is to help people to have happy, healthy, long lived tortoises and avoid some common mistakes.

Hi Tom,

Is there a specific place you buy your orchid bark? I’m only finding really small bags

Thanks!

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,

Is there a specific place you buy your orchid bark? I’m only finding really small bags

Thanks!

My local nursery sells it in bulk for $12 a bag. Its harder to find outside the west coast.

 

[WhitneyMtree]

My local nursery sells it in bulk for $12 a bag. Its harder to find outside the west coast.

Thank you! Last question - do you mix anything else in with the Mazuri pellets?

 

[Tom]

Thank you! Last question - do you mix anything else in with the Mazuri pellets?

Yes. All the time and all sorts of things. Greens, soaked horse hay pellets, chopped and soaked horse hay(when appropriate for the species and size), dried leaf offerings from Kapidolofarms.com and herbal hay from tortoisesupply.com.

 

[wutang]

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species.

Babies hatch during the start of the rainy season. It is hot, very humid, rainy, and marshy in some areas. There are puddles and lush green growing food everywhere. In some areas there is a dry season, but the hot monsoon season is when babies hatch, and babies find humid microclimates to hide in during drier times. In extreme conditions they aestivate and don't eat or grow at all when its hot and dry. Keeping your hatchling in a dry, desert-like enclosure, is a big mistake and an invitation to disaster. It is also very un-natural for these animals. Damp substrate, a water bowl, and a humid hide should all be pre-requisites. Along with this, warm temps day and night are necessary. Sulcatas, leopards and stars are NOT prone to shell rot at all, and they do not get respiratory infections in these damp conditions as long as temps are kept up. I shoot for no lower than 80 degrees day or night year round, and all three of these heat loving species do well with a day time ambient approaching 90 degrees. Humidity is at 80+% all the time. Most people keep them too cool and too dry. Adults can tolerate colder temps and drier conditions in some circumstances, but this care sheet is for hatchlings and babies and is aimed at helping them thrive, not just survive. I know the books, the breeders and the "experts" all say the opposite of this. They are wrong. They've been wrong for 30 years. For 20 of those years I was wrong right along with them. Some of us have learned and advanced. Some have not. Keep this in mind when consulting a vet, or a potential breeder or seller that you want to buy from. As soon as they contradict this info and tell you "this is a desert species", you will know NOT to buy from them.

Some General Notes:

• Set up your enclosure, run it, check it and make adjustments BEFORE you bring home a new tortoise. Babies are easy if the set up is correct. Babies aren't delicate or difficult. When babies are not started correctly is when people have problems with them. Babies have a smaller margin of error due to their smaller body mass, if you've made mistakes, or if the enclosure and equipment isn't already set up and at the right temperatures.
• You won't find most of what you need to set up a tortoise at a pet store. What you will find is expensive stuff that is bad for your tortoise and lots of bad advice. This is true even at most reptile specialty places. Where to get tortoise supplies then? The hardware store or large department stores. There are a few exceptions like reptile thermostats, some reptile heating elements, and UV tubes. I get these from on-line sellers.
• If you are going the the grocery store to buy tortoise food, you are feeding the wrong stuff. If you have no other choice but to use grocery store food due to your climate and weather for part of the year, it will need to be amended to make it more suitable as tortoise food. More on this later.
• It is my hope that this care sheet finds you BEFORE you buy a tortoise. Most breeders start their babies too dry. The end result is stunting, pyramiding and sometimes death weeks or months later. Don't get a baby from someone who starts them dry, on dry substrate, outdoors all day, and doesn't soak daily.
• Some common mistakes to avoid, with more explanation later: Buying from the wrong (dry) source, getting advice and products from a pet store, free roaming indoors or out, feeding a diet of mostly grocery store foods without amendments, not soaking daily, cool temps, wrong UV bulbs, wrong basking bulbs, letting dogs around your tortoise, small enclosures, open topped enclosures, sand or soil substrates, bad vet care or advice, too much outside time for little babies, keeping a pair of tortoises in the same enclosure...

Heating And Lighting:
I use a 45-65 watt incandescent flood bulb on a 12 hour timer and adjust the height of the fixture to get a basking area of around 95-100 directly under the bulb. In some closed chambers I go with lower wattage bulbs. This depends on many factors and no one can tell you exactly what wattage you will need in your enclosure. Let your thermometer be your guide. I use a ceramic heating element or a radiant heat panel set to 80 degrees on a reptile thermostat to maintain my ambient temperature in the enclosure. The basking lamp should raise the day time ambient temperature into the high 80s or low 90s. Ambient should be no lower than 80, but drifting up to 90 during the heat of the day is good. The thermostat will keep your CHE or RHP off during these times, but ready to click on after the basking lamp clicks off and the ambient temperature starts to drop at night. I use LED bulbs when I want to brighten up the whole enclosure and I run these on the same timer as the basking bulb. There are other ways to do some of this, but trial and error have shown time and time again, that the above is what works the best. Don't use "spot" bulbs, reptile specialty bulbs, halogen bulbs, any cfl, or mercury vapor bulbs. You want a plain old, regular incandescent flood bulb from the hardware store. I buy them in six or twelve packs, so I always have extras on hand. They always go out at the most inopportune times.

UV:
Tortoises need regular exposure to the right kind of UV rays in order to make vitamin D2 into D3 to be able to utilize dietary calcium. Real sunshine is best, but be careful. Shade should always be available as babies can overheat and die surprisingly quickly. If your tortoise can get some regular sunning time in a safe outdoor enclosure, even just a couple of times a week for most of the year, you don't need any artificial UV. Its okay if you have to skip two or three weeks of sunning time during a cold winter spell. If you live somewhere with long frozen winters, then some artificial UV might be in order for that time of year. I no longer recommend mercury vapor bulbs for several reasons, but florescent HO (High Output) UV tubes work very well according to my UV meter. CFL type UV bulbs are ineffective as UV sources and sometime burn reptile eyes. No type of compact florescent bulb should be used over a tortoise. Also get yourself a Solarmeter 6.5. Without a UV meter, you are guessing about the UV levels in your enclosure, no different than guessing the temperature without a thermometer. At least without a thermometer you can still feel the temperature with your hand. You can't feel UV levels. These meters pay for themselves in short order since you won't be replacing perfectly good working bulbs every six months, as the sellers recommend.

Too much outside time is bad for babies. It slows their growth tremendously and causes pyramiding. I've done many side-by-side experiments with clutch mates over the years to determine this fact. My general rule is an hour of access to sunshine per inch of tortoise. Once they reach around 5 inches, outside all day is fine, weather permitting, but soak daily and continue to let them sleep in their humid closed chamber every night until they get a bit bigger.

The Enclosure:
I have not been able to make any open topped enclosure work to my satisfaction. Low sided open topped enclosures like tortoise tables and sweater boxes are the worst. No amount of covering, or attempts to slow heat and humidity loss have worked well for me. There is just no way to keep the warm humid air where you want it. Closed chambers are the way to go. Maintaining whatever temperature and humidity you want is easy and efficient in a closed chamber. They use a lot less electricity because all of your heat and humidity is contained with nowhere to go. It also makes maintaining warm night temps a snap. Open tops allow all your warm humid air to escape up and into the room where your enclosure sits. Even if you cover most of the top, the heat lamps create a chimney effect and draw your heat and humidity up and out. Having the heat lamps outside, or on top of, the enclosure also lets the majority of the electrically generated heat you are creating float up up and away. A closed chamber contains all the heat and humidity. It works best if all the heating and lighting equipment is INSIDE the enclosure with the tortoise. Any other way is a compromise and less than ideal. Maintaining a small open topped box at 80 degrees with 80% humidity in a regular sized room that is 70 degrees and 20% humidity is VERY difficult, if not impossible in a practical sense. A closed chamber makes it easy.
Here are pictures of the plain basic closed chambers that I use to start babies:
View attachment 291552
View attachment 291554
You can make it much more fancy and add plants and decorations if you want. I'm going for simplicity and I spend time making their outdoor enclosures more fantastic. When done correctly, your baby will only be in this enclosure for a year or two, and then it will be time to move outside full time with a heated night box, or get much larger indoor accommodations if this is what your climate dictates.

What if you already bought a glass tank or wooden tortoise enclosure? How can you make that one work? You really can't. Covering the top and trying to contain the heat and humidity is better than nothing, but the sooner you resign yourself to buying or building the right kind of enclosure, the sooner you and your tortoise will reap the benefits. Almost everyone gets bad info from the breeder, pet store, vets, and all over the internet. I'm sorry this happens and sorry you bought all the wrong stuff, but it helps no one when a person keeps trying to jam that square peg into a round hole. Think it over, take a deep breath, and just go get the correct stuff now that you know. I encourage people to return the items to the pet shop and tell them why. Eventually they will learn and stop selling dangerous, bad, and useless items to people.

You need to know, and periodically adjust your temperatures. You need to regularly check warm side, cool side, basking spot and night temps, and adjust as needed. Every enclosure is different and they even change with the seasons in most households. It is not enough to screw a bulb in and walk away. Check those temps, and make adjustments, preferably BEFORE the baby even comes home. I like to use an infrared temp gun AND digital thermometers for this purpose. Check your temps early and often.

Enclosure Size:
Simply put: The bigger the better. I start babies in a 30x48 inch closed chamber. As a minimum, I would suggest no smaller than 36"x18" for a tiny hatchling, but you'll need to upgrade quickly. They need room to roam around. Once you put in the food and water bowls, the humid hide, and any decorations or potted plants, there is hardly any room left over to walk. Tortoises do not tend to do as well as some other types of reptiles when stuffed into small enclosures. They need room to roam inside their safe heated enclosures, and the floor is not a safe option. Don't think that you'll use a smaller enclosure, and just let Sheldon out to roam the floor for some exercise. This almost always ends in disaster. Its bad for your tortoise and impaction, sickness, injury, or death is the usual result. "But, but, but... I make it safe and supervise closely..." says every person until the day that disaster eventually strikes and they realize they were wrong. Its a terrible sickening feeling to hold a dead tortoise in your hand. Don't put yourself through this. Make a large enclosure. Don't have room for a large enclosure? Get a different pet that can live in a smaller enclosure that you have room for. Tortoises aren't good pets for everyone. For a sulcata, even 4x8' is only going to last a year or two. You might get three years with it for a star, leopard or slower growing sulcata, but that is optimistic. Outdoor enclosures can be even larger. Babies will NOT get lost or overwhelmed in 10x10 foot enclosure. In the wild they roam far greater distances than that.

Humid Hide Boxes:
This offers the tortoise a more humid place to retreat to and sleep and can simulate some of the more damp micro-climates they might utilize in the wild. It is as simple as getting a $2 black dishwashing tub from Walmart, flipping it upside down and cutting out a small door hole. I keep the substrate under the tub more damp than the surrounding substrate and it works great. You can also use plastic shoe boxes. Sphagnum moss is unnecessary and potentially dangerous since they eat it, and it can cause an impaction. The humid hide is a very important detail that should not be overlooked. Half logs and flower pots on their sides do not work. They are not closed in enough.

Substrate:
There are only three viable options. Coco coir, orchid bark, and cypress mulch. All of these can be purchased in bulk at most hardware or garden center stores at a tremendous savings. I don't like coco coir for these species because its too messy. I don't like cypress mulch because the pieces aren't uniform, some pieces are too big or too sharp, and because it smells like the swamp that is came from. If these two are all you can find, then go ahead and use them. They are safe and suitable. Fine grade orchid bark works the best. Its cheap, easy, holds moisture well, doesn't stink, easy to clean, easy for babies to walk on, not an ingestion hazard, etc... I recommend against any store bought soil, "Pets At Home" reptile bedding with the little white limestone bits in it, wood shavings or chips, ground walnut shell, corn cob bedding, rabbit pellets, compressed grass pellet bedding, newspaper pellets, hay, cedar, or any amount of sand. None of those are safe or suitable for an indoor tortoise enclosure.

Water Dishes:
Plain old terra cotta plant saucers work best. They come in a variety of sizes to suit any size tortoise, they offer good traction to little wet tortoise feet, they have low sides, they are cheap so you can buy extras, and they are shallow so your tortoise won't drown if it happens to flip over and land upside down in the water bowl. Sink the bowl into the substrate for best results. I prefer to give babies two water bowls. Do NOT use the typical ramped pet store bowls. These are great for snakes and lizards, but they can literally be death traps for tortoises. Clean your terra cotta saucer as often as needed. The more they track food and substrate into it, and the more they poop in it, the better. This means they are comfortable using their bowl, and that is great news. Just rinse and refill as many times a day as you need to. A water bowl that stays clean and untouched all day is a water bowl that is not being used for one reason or another. This is a bad sign, and it means your tortoise is one step closer to dehydration.

Soaking:
I recommend ALL hatchlings of ALL species be soaked in 85-95 degree water for at least 20-30 minutes every day. I use a tall sided opaque tub and keep the water depth about a third to half way up the body. If you have a humid enclosure with a humid hide and a water bowl, it is totally fine to skip a day here and there. Soaking only once a week and using a dry enclosure is not enough in my opinion, and I would not buy a hatchling that had been started that way. Once the tortoise gets to about 100 grams, I start skipping a day now and then. I gradually taper it down as they gain size. How often I soak older tortoises depends on a lot of factors, the current weather and season being two big ones. I soak more often when its hot and dry. If you live in a warm, humid, rainy climate, and your tortoise is exposed to these conditions, soaking less often is probably fine, but it still wont hurt anything to do it. You cannot soak too much or for too long. Soaking does not do any harm whatsoever. It doesn't make them poop too much and not digest their food, it doesn't upset their "water balance", whatever that is, it doesn't give them shell rot or respiratory infections, and it is NOT unnatural in any way. "But, but, but... Who soaks them every day in nature???" These babies hatch at the start of the RAINY season in the wild. Its raining on them frequently, and puddles form all over the place. Keep the soak water warm for the entire soak. If you are in a hurry, 10 minutes is enough. If you are forgetful or get distracted, an hour will do no harm.

Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems to help those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a year.

Outdoor Enclosures:
This is a MUST in my opinion. Tortoises are solar powered, need lots of walking room, and benefit greatly from some time in the great outdoors. With hatchlings I start with short excursions of only an hour a day, followed by a soak on the way in. As they gain size, I like to leave them out longer and longer each day, weather permitting, until they eventually live outside full time with a heated night box of some sort, where climate allows. Outside time must be done with great care as there are many dangers. They can overheat, be eaten or mauled, or escape. Here is one simple idea. A large kiddie pool or horse watering trough could also work. If you don't have a suitable grassy area, you can put a plywood bottom on this with wheels and legs, and move it around. Do NOT let your baby roam free outside. You will lose it eventually, and you'll be unable to explain how it happened so fast when you were watching so carefully. Its a sickening feeling. Don't put yourself through this. Use an enclosure and make it large. Also, if you have a dog, or people who come to visit bring a dog, your tortoise is in grave danger. Be careful. EVERY dog will chew up a tortoise. It doesn't matter how nice and loving a dog it is. Tortoises are seen as chew toys by dogs. Don't let this happen to your tortoise. Physically prevent it with fencing and/or correct housing. Don't leave it to chance. It is a horrible sickening feeling holding a mauled tortoise in your hands. Don't put yourself through this.
View attachment 291555

Pyramiding:
This is the subject of many threads in itself. I will simply state here what I know to be true based on my experience, my experiments, conversations with people who live other countries and study tortoises, people who have kept them for decades here in the U.S., and personal observations of thousands of tortoises in all manners of keeping styles.

There are many things listed as causes of pyramiding. I can refute each one with multiple examples. Lack of UV, lack of calcium, too much protein, too much food, the wrong foods, fast growth, wrong temperatures, small enclosures, not enough exercise, indoor housing, etc. None of these factors CAUSES pyramiding. They can all be somehow related to it, but they don't cause it. Simply put: Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. This is true for any species of tortoise, even the ones that don't typically pyramid. To prevent pyramiding I use a closed chamber and keep the ambient temperature 80 or higher all the time, I keep humidity at 80% or higher, I offer a humid hide that holds 95-100% humidity, I soak daily to ensure good hydration, and I spray the carapace with plain water several times a day. Sulcatas hatch during the African rainy season. It is hot, humid, rainy and marshy. It makes no sense to keep them in a dry box, with dry substrate, and a hot desiccating bulb overhead. Simulating this rainy season has grown me hundreds of smooth leopard and sulcata babies, as well as a few other species too. There are literally thousands of examples of other people succeeding using the same basic philosophy here on this forum. So please, don't keep sulcatas and leopards in desert-style enclosures. It is not healthy for them. They are not the least bit prone to shell rot, like some other species are, and they DO NOT get respiratory infections from high humidity as long as temps are 80 or higher everywhere in the enclosure, day and night. I don't say these things and come up with these assertions lightly. Its not that I raised one tortoise this way, and everything went okay. I have literally raised hundreds of tortoises of multiple species this way and had nothing but success. My methods and success rate have been repeated by thousands of tortoise keepers all over the globe. We have more than 10 years of living healthy examples to back up these assertions.

If you want to prevent pyramiding, simply do the above stuff.
View attachment 291556
View attachment 291557
View attachment 291558

Questions and conversation are welcome. The goal here is to help people to have happy, healthy, long lived tortoises and avoid some common mistakes.

Tom - this is simply excellent, and thank you so much for the time you took putting this together and your valuable responses to all the questions. I am setting up my enclosure before bringing home my Leopard Tortoise and I’m trying to dial in the basking spot. When it comes to the basking spot - should I be going for a 95-100° on the surface of the substrate? Or 95-100 ambient air at the basking spot? Right now I’m getting a 95-100 reading on my ambient air temp at the basking spot but when I use my laser thermometer to measure the surface temperature, it’s around 115. Should I recalibrate so that I’m getting a surface temp reading of 95 to 100?

 

[Tom]

Tom - this is simply excellent, and thank you so much for the time you took putting this together and your valuable responses to all the questions. I am setting up my enclosure before bringing home my Leopard Tortoise and I’m trying to dial in the basking spot. When it comes to the basking spot - should I be going for a 95-100° on the surface of the substrate? Or 95-100 ambient air at the basking spot? Right now I’m getting a 95-100 reading on my ambient air temp at the basking spot but when I use my laser thermometer to measure the surface temperature, it’s around 115. Should I recalibrate so that I’m getting a surface temp reading of 95 to 100?

You are very welcome. I'm glad the info is helping you and your tortoise!

You want it to be 95-100 at tortoise shell height. Leopards have high domes, so watch this carefully as your baby grows. Measure the temp by laying a digital thermometer on its back at tortoise shell height, directly under the basking bulb and letting it cook for an hour or more. Use a block of wood, or something similar to raise the thermometer higher and higher as your tortoise grows. 115 at the surface will be 120-125 at the top of the shell 2 or 3 inches closer to the bulb, and this will contribute to pyramiding, even if you are doing everything else right. Raise or lower the bulb as needed to get the temperature correct at the correct height for your tortoise. You can also change the wattage of your bulb, or run a rheostat to control the wattage going to the bulb.

Leopards need a basking area, but we need to make sure we aren't overly desiccating the top of the carapace and doing damage.

 

[wutang]

You are very welcome. I'm glad the info is helping you and your tortoise!

You want it to be 95-100 at tortoise shell height. Leopards have high domes, so watch this carefully as your baby grows. Measure the temp by laying a digital thermometer on its back at tortoise shell height, directly under the basking bulb and letting it cook for an hour or more. Use a block of wood, or something similar to raise the thermometer higher and higher as your tortoise grows. 115 at the surface will be 120-125 at the top of the shell 2 or 3 inches closer to the bulb, and this will contribute to pyramiding, even if you are doing everything else right. Raise or lower the bulb as needed to get the temperature correct at the correct height for your tortoise. You can also change the wattage of your bulb, or run a rheostat to control the wattage going to the bulb.

Leopards need a basking area, but we need to make sure we aren't overly desiccating the top of the carapace and doing damage.

Thanks for the insightful reply Tom! So glad I found this info before bringing my little guy home, going to get everything dialed in perfectly.

 

[wutang]

Hi Tom, thanks again for this. I’ve had my Leopard hatchling for about a month. After the initial settling in, he’s always been a good eater and active. However he stopped eating 3 days ago, and has become progressively less active to the point that he now pretty much just settles in wherever I place him after soaking - he’ll open his eyes occasionally, but not often, and just seems to have little desire to move around whereas he is typically climbing and wandering his enclosure. The sequence of events from normalcy to his current state are as follows: I moved him into a new 6 foot enclosure around 2 days before he stopped eating / became progressively less active (parameters and substrate/setup are all in line with your guide - I posted about it last week, linked below) The last meal before he stopped eating were cut up nopales pads dusted with vitamins and ground up oat grass. The next day, I noticed some constipation / couldn’t fully pass everything in one go (he would pass out what looked like a long strand but then there would be more partially digested strands still stuck behind ). Concerned that this is related to me letting him graze in his outdoor enclosure before realizing that this wasn’t good for hatchlings. I’ve since been doing multiple long soaks a day, and he has gone every time, including a couple that were almost the length of his body - they looked like pretty sizable pieces of not fully digested grass/roughage. This happened multiple times, he has pooped a lot over the past couple of days without eating, at least a little bit every time I’ve soaked him. Now on day, three of no eating he’s no longer pooping in his soaks, but it doesn’t look like there are any undigested strands stuck in his cloaca like it had been. That said I’m still concerned due to the complete lethargy and lack of eating. On the other hand, his behavior reminds me of how it was in the first couple of days when he was adapting to his new enclosure so also wondering if this may be at least partially just him having a delayed reaction to being in a new environment. I’m now soaking him in a carrot baby food water mixture and upping the ambient temp to closer to 90. Sorry for the long winded explanation just wondering if you might have any insight / experience into this kind of behavior / sequence of events.

Thread 'Planning For Adult Leopard Tortoise Indoor Keeping'
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-for-adult-leopard-tortoise-indoor-keeping.231407/

 

[COmtnLady]

@Tom
@Yvonne G
@zovick
@ZEROPILOT








Why did you move to a larger enclosure? Can you return to the one your tortoise is used to until this concern is passed? Hatchlings need consistent mid-80s humidity and 85-95F, all the time, for their first two or three years, and its easier to accomplish this with an enclosure that is smaller. How warm is this new one and what is the constant humidity?

last meal before he stopped eating were cut up nopales pads dusted with vitamins and ground up oat grass.

What size pieces were the cactus pads? This might be part of the problem, Its best to allow the tortoise to take bites from a whole piece so the bites that are manageable for them. What people think of as small enough are frequently choking hazards.


Let's see what the more experienced members suggest.



.

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom, thanks again for this. I’ve had my Leopard hatchling for about a month. After the initial settling in, he’s always been a good eater and active. However he stopped eating 3 days ago, and has become progressively less active to the point that he now pretty much just settles in wherever I place him after soaking - he’ll open his eyes occasionally, but not often, and just seems to have little desire to move around whereas he is typically climbing and wandering his enclosure. The sequence of events from normalcy to his current state are as follows: I moved him into a new 6 foot enclosure around 2 days before he stopped eating / became progressively less active (parameters and substrate/setup are all in line with your guide - I posted about it last week, linked below) The last meal before he stopped eating were cut up nopales pads dusted with vitamins and ground up oat grass. The next day, I noticed some constipation / couldn’t fully pass everything in one go (he would pass out what looked like a long strand but then there would be more partially digested strands still stuck behind ). Concerned that this is related to me letting him graze in his outdoor enclosure before realizing that this wasn’t good for hatchlings. I’ve since been doing multiple long soaks a day, and he has gone every time, including a couple that were almost the length of his body - they looked like pretty sizable pieces of not fully digested grass/roughage. This happened multiple times, he has pooped a lot over the past couple of days without eating, at least a little bit every time I’ve soaked him. Now on day, three of no eating he’s no longer pooping in his soaks, but it doesn’t look like there are any undigested strands stuck in his cloaca like it had been. That said I’m still concerned due to the complete lethargy and lack of eating. On the other hand, his behavior reminds me of how it was in the first couple of days when he was adapting to his new enclosure so also wondering if this may be at least partially just him having a delayed reaction to being in a new environment. I’m now soaking him in a carrot baby food water mixture and upping the ambient temp to closer to 90. Sorry for the long winded explanation just wondering if you might have any insight / experience into this kind of behavior / sequence of events.

Thread 'Planning For Adult Leopard Tortoise Indoor Keeping'
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-for-adult-leopard-tortoise-indoor-keeping.231407/

Where did you get the tortoise, and how much does it weigh in grams?

Leopards are not grass eaters. A little ground up oat hay might be an okay way to add some fiber for an adult if it is mixed in with lots of greens, but I wouldn't feed any sort of hay to a baby. I wouldn't feed any sort of grass to a baby leopard. Save the hay for when the tortoise is larger. Feed mostly leafy greens, weeds, leaves, opuntia, and occasional flowers to a baby. I wouldn't use any grass at all until the tortoise is larger, but you can use freshly sprouted tender grass to add fiber to greens when that time comes, and that should be chopped into short pieces with scissors before mixing it in.

How is the oat hay ground up, and what is the typical length of the fibers after being ground up?

 

[wutang]

Where did you get the tortoise, and how much does it weigh in grams?

Leopards are not grass eaters. A little ground up oat hay might be an okay way to add some fiber for an adult if it is mixed in with lots of greens, but I wouldn't feed any sort of hay to a baby. I wouldn't feed any sort of grass to a baby leopard. Save the hay for when the tortoise is larger. Feed mostly leafy greens, weeds, leaves, opuntia, and occasional flowers to a baby. I wouldn't use any grass at all until the tortoise is larger, but you can use freshly sprouted tender grass to add fiber to greens when that time comes, and that should be chopped into short pieces with scissors before mixing it in.

How is the oat hay ground up, and what is the typical length of the fibers after being ground up?

Thanks Tom. 54 grams, weighed 50 grams when I got him on April 1. Pardalis pardalis Limburg lineage from a hobbyist breeder born in January, parents were purchased from Ian Tomich. He was raised in closed chamber 80 ambient temp/humidity with daily soaks. For feeding, no hay, I’m only using the finely ground basically powdered oat/barley grass from kapidola farms as a topper on the nopales pads, other than that I feed him grass / chickweed / dandelion greens / leaves from wild violet flowers, clover, etc. from my yard that I wash, however, I was not diligent about chopping until I realized hatchlings needed it cut up for them, and he did have access to all of those plants during his outside time where he would sometimes eat. I’ve noticed constipation and then large strand like bowel movements that leave a lingering trail behind that he can’t fully pass. Today was the first day since he stopped eating that he hasn’t pooped (like I said he pooped a lot the past couple of days in spite of not eating at all)

 

[wutang]

@Tom
@Yvonne G
@zovick
@ZEROPILOT








Why did you move to a larger enclosure? Can you return to the one your tortoise is used to until this concern is passed? Hatchlings need consistent mid-80s humidity and 85-95F, all the time, for their first two or three years, and its easier to accomplish this with an enclosure that is smaller. How warm is this new one and what is the constant humidity?

What size pieces were the cactus pads? This might be part of the problem, Its best to allow the tortoise to take bites from a whole piece so the bites that are manageable for them. What people think of as small enough are frequently choking hazards.


Let's see what the more experienced members suggest.



.

Thanks for jumping in sincerely appreciate all input. Cactus pads were not so small that he was going at them in one bite, I observed him eating and he was chomping at the bigger pieces, not swallowing whole, though I can’t guarantee that he didn’t end up swallowing a piece. As far as switching enclosures, the main point of the move was actually not size but rather to switch to a fully closed chamber. My previous enclosure was a tote where I cut the lid and taped over it, but it ended up not holding high enough humidity - when I initially tested I thought I was maintaining 80%, but that was only at, ground level, I couldn’t keep up with the air humidity thus the move. I’m now between 80-90% ambient humidity throughout the entire enclosure, and I’ve bumped ambient air temps since he’s not feeling well. Here are current measurements