Red Foot Tortoise Possible RI?

Hello all,

I’ve noticed over the last day or so that my tortoise has been breathing differently. It’s quite sharp leg/head pumping, with him pulling his head in quickly like something’s uncomfortable, then pushing it back out again (Sometimes closing his eyes too as if he's in some form of discomforted). Definitely different to his usual breathing.

About 4 months ago I had to take him to the vets because he was very fatigued and doing something similar. At that time, he also appeared to be regurgitating, almost like “throwing up”. The vets thought it could have been food-related (It was right after some cooked chicken, so possible way too much for him to digest) or possibly an RI, so he was treated with antibiotics. After the course, he went back to normal; active, climbing, eating well.

Now I’m seeing similar movements again. Yesterday I noticed he was struggling to pass stool, which eventually he did and it was a fair size. So today I gave him a long soak as usual and he passed a very large stool again. Since then, he’s been eating normally, moving around, and generally acting like himself again, but I'm just weary of this head movement, the breathing just doesn't quite seem right for my liking.

I’m just a bit cautious and wondering if this could be early signs of an RI returning, or if it could be something else entirely. Any advice would be great, I was advised to use some F10 during the first time, so I'm debating to try this to see how he gets on and monitor from there.

For context:

• 5-year-old Red Footed Tortoise (Terry)
• Enclosed setup with automated temps: 30°C daytime, slightly higher basking spot around 35°C, dropping to 23–25°C at night
• Humidity sits around 80%, ventilated at the back; occasionally topped up by adding water to the substrate in corner when it dries out (Use pond liner at the base so water doesn't ruin the enclosure)
• Substrate is coir soil with a top layer of orchid bark (I do wonder if the soil might be too fine/dusty when dry)

Jdiddle said:

Hello all,

I’ve noticed over the last day or so that my tortoise has been breathing differently. It’s quite sharp leg/head pumping, with him pulling his head in quickly like something’s uncomfortable, then pushing it back out again (Sometimes closing his eyes too as if he's in some form of discomforted). Definitely different to his usual breathing.

About 4 months ago I had to take him to the vets because he was very fatigued and doing something similar. At that time, he also appeared to be regurgitating, almost like “throwing up”. The vets thought it could have been food-related (It was right after some cooked chicken, so possible way too much for him to digest) or possibly an RI, so he was treated with antibiotics. After the course, he went back to normal; active, climbing, eating well.

Now I’m seeing similar movements again. Yesterday I noticed he was struggling to pass stool, which eventually he did and it was a fair size. So today I gave him a long soak as usual and he passed a very large stool again. Since then, he’s been eating normally, moving around, and generally acting like himself again, but I'm just weary of this head movement, the breathing just doesn't quite seem right for my liking.

I’m just a bit cautious and wondering if this could be early signs of an RI returning, or if it could be something else entirely. Any advice would be great, I was advised to use some F10 during the first time, so I'm debating to try this to see how he gets on and monitor from there.

For context:

• 5-year-old Red Footed Tortoise (Terry)
• Enclosed setup with automated temps: 30°C daytime, slightly higher basking spot around 35°C, dropping to 23–25°C at night
• Humidity sits around 80%, ventilated at the back; occasionally topped up by adding water to the substrate in corner when it dries out (Use pond liner at the base so water doesn't ruin the enclosure)
• Substrate is coir soil with a top layer of orchid bark (I do wonder if the soil might be too fine/dusty when dry)

Click to expand...

The symptoms you are describing do indicate a respiratory problem. You probably need to go through another course of antibiotics.

What antibiotic was used last time? Personally, I would highly recommend ceftazidime at a dose of 20 mg/kilo every three days until it has been given 5-6 doses. For severe RI's give it every other day instead of every three days.

Jdiddle said:

Hello all,

I’ve noticed over the last day or so that my tortoise has been breathing differently. It’s quite sharp leg/head pumping, with him pulling his head in quickly like something’s uncomfortable, then pushing it back out again (Sometimes closing his eyes too as if he's in some form of discomforted). Definitely different to his usual breathing.

About 4 months ago I had to take him to the vets because he was very fatigued and doing something similar. At that time, he also appeared to be regurgitating, almost like “throwing up”. The vets thought it could have been food-related (It was right after some cooked chicken, so possible way too much for him to digest) or possibly an RI, so he was treated with antibiotics. After the course, he went back to normal; active, climbing, eating well.

Now I’m seeing similar movements again. Yesterday I noticed he was struggling to pass stool, which eventually he did and it was a fair size. So today I gave him a long soak as usual and he passed a very large stool again. Since then, he’s been eating normally, moving around, and generally acting like himself again, but I'm just weary of this head movement, the breathing just doesn't quite seem right for my liking.

I’m just a bit cautious and wondering if this could be early signs of an RI returning, or if it could be something else entirely. Any advice would be great, I was advised to use some F10 during the first time, so I'm debating to try this to see how he gets on and monitor from there.

For context:

• 5-year-old Red Footed Tortoise (Terry)
• Enclosed setup with automated temps: 30°C daytime, slightly higher basking spot around 35°C, dropping to 23–25°C at night
• Humidity sits around 80%, ventilated at the back; occasionally topped up by adding water to the substrate in corner when it dries out (Use pond liner at the base so water doesn't ruin the enclosure)
• Substrate is coir soil with a top layer of orchid bark (I do wonder if the soil might be too fine/dusty when dry)

Click to expand...

-What size is the tortoise and what size is the enclosure?

-This species does not need a basking lamp.

-23C is too cold at night. It should be around 28 at night, and around 30C during the day. RI is often caused by cold nights.

_ I don't know how often you are soaking, but given what you are seeing, I would soak more often. The soak water should be kept warm and the tortoise should be soaked for 30-40 minutes.

Tom said:

-What size is the tortoise and what size is the enclosure?

-This species does not need a basking lamp.

-23C is too cold at night. It should be around 28 at night, and around 30C during the day. RI is often caused by cold nights.

_ I don't know how often you are soaking, but given what you are seeing, I would soak more often. The soak water should be kept warm and the tortoise should be soaked for 30-40 minutes.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. So his shell sits around 5-6 inches currently, and the enclosure is 7ft x 3 ft currently and I built quite deep for the substrate in there.

I was advised that they needed a specific area with stronger heat to mimic that the rain-forest floor? He seems to warm himself up here on a morning and then off he goes, but the temp of the enclosure as an entirety is about 30C so would you suggest removing this? I agree the cold temps likely increase that risk so I'll keep temps higher overnight.

Regarding soaking, what do you do about keeping them in the bath for so long? He hates anything longer than about 5 minutes, any advice?

Thanks again

zovick said:

The symptoms you are describing do indicate a respiratory problem. You probably need to go through another course of antibiotics.

What antibiotic was used last time? Personally, I would highly recommend ceftazidime at a dose of 20 mg/kilo every three days until it has been given 5-6 doses. For severe RI's give it every other day instead of every three days.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure unfortunately, I no longer have the prescribed box. Thank you for the suggestion though. Is this something that once they've had it once they're prone to it again, or is it simply controlling the environment better?

Jdiddle said:

I'm not sure unfortunately, I no longer have the prescribed box. Thank you for the suggestion though. Is this something that once they've had it once they're prone to it again, or is it simply controlling the environment better?

Click to expand...

If the bacteria causing the RI was/is Mycoplasma, yes, they are prone to getting it at multiple times throughout their lives. If the RI is not caused by Mycoplasma, it is just random and then may well be a result of improper conditions such as temps too low, too much dampness, etc.

Jdiddle said:

Thanks for the response. So his shell sits around 5-6 inches currently, and the enclosure is 7ft x 3 ft currently and I built quite deep for the substrate in there.

I was advised that they needed a specific area with stronger heat to mimic that the rain-forest floor? He seems to warm himself up here on a morning and then off he goes, but the temp of the enclosure as an entirety is about 30C so would you suggest removing this? I agree the cold temps likely increase that risk so I'll keep temps higher overnight.

Regarding soaking, what do you do about keeping them in the bath for so long? He hates anything longer than about 5 minutes, any advice?

Thanks again

Click to expand...

Do you have a closed chamber and not an open topped enclosure?

Understand that most of the advice you receive from most sources is old, outdated, erroneous info. The advice you were given does apply to some species. Sulcatas, leopards, and all the Testudo do need a basking lamp area to warm up above ambient, and Testudo do need cooler nights. RF don't need either.

All tortoises start scrambling to get out of the soaking tub after a few minutes. This is fine. The exercise is good for them and helps keep the GI tract moving, which is one of the problems you are experiencing. Like horses, tortoises need locomotion to help keep the GI tract functioning correctly. Imagine how far and how much the tortoise would walk daily out in a forest in the tropics somewhere. No compare that to how much the tortoise walks in a 7x3 foot enclosure. We call bath time "the tortoise treadmill" here. Keep the water warm the whole time. It is sometimes helpful to put the soaking tub inside the enclosure to keep it all warmer longer. My advice on the soaking is: Put the tortoise in a tall sided, opaque, plastic tub with warm water and leave it in there for 30-40 minutes. Refresh and warm up the water as needed. Some people like to have two soaking tubs. When one gets soiled or cools too much, pop the tortoise into the fresh one. Rinse and repeat as many times as is necessary.

Tom and Zovick have given you solid advice above!

RedFoots evolved in and near the Amazon Rainforest. They are hard-wired for 29C and higher ALL the time, day or night. It doesn't get cold in the equatorial regions ever. I keep mine at 29-32, never below 29C.

You get kudos for your substrate. That system is the best way to keep humidity even and consistent. As long as you have the layer of bark over the coir, there really isn't a way for the coir to dry out enough to be dusty, so don't worry about that. As long as your humidity is above 84% your RF will be happy.

As stated above, RedFoots don't need a basking lamp. (Basking lamps should be FLOOD not Spot, in any case. The spot types are too focused and will burn the top of your tortoise's shell.) If Terry is sitting under something RFs normally wouldn't need or want, it is because he is too cold and is desperately trying to warm up any way he can. Increase your enclosure heat a.s.a.p.

Until he returns to breathing normally. keep the enclosure around 35C all the time, and like Tom said, soak him every day for at least 40 minutes (it will help with the difficult pooping, too). Soaking water needs to be 37C to 40C, and only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together. When in doubt, soak more often. There is almost no such thing as too much soaking.


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While this doesn't specifically pertain to your immediate problem, it contains some good info for a RedFoot keeper to be aware of (there are a couple things this talks about that we have since discovered are not "best keeping practices", for example, never use sand, moss, commercial soils for substrate. When this was written we hadn't realized how harmful those can be. BUT! This still has value for the background info.)





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