Tortoise RI dilemma

[kewpie]

My tortoise has had an RI for a few weeks. I've been reluctant to take him to the vet since he's still been bright and eating well, but mainly because he had another RI 5 years ago where the vet prescribed Baytril and it ended up with him having kidney damage, completely off food, completely unable to walk and then with gout. We had to rehabilitate him for months including Lego wheels to get him to be able to rebuild his strength to walk again.

I've been using F10 in a nebuliser and increased night temps but he's still got the RI and tonight has started opening his mouth, so I fear that it's now getting worse. But it feels almost guaranteed that a vet's antibiotics will bring a repeat of what happened 5 years ago. Has anyone got any advice please?

 

[tortturt]

@Tom

 

[tortturt]

@Littleredfootbigredheart

 

[tortturt]

Idk but these people will probably know

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

My tortoise has had an RI for a few weeks. I've been reluctant to take him to the vet since he's still been bright and eating well, but mainly because he had another RI 5 years ago where the vet prescribed Baytril and it ended up with him having kidney damage, completely off food, completely unable to walk and then with gout. We had to rehabilitate him for months including Lego wheels to get him to be able to rebuild his strength to walk again.

I've been using F10 in a nebuliser and increased night temps but he's still got the RI and tonight has started opening his mouth, so I fear that it's now getting worse. But it feels almost guaranteed that a vet's antibiotics will bring a repeat of what happened 5 years ago. Has anyone got any advice please?

Hello and welcome, I’m sorry you’re not here under better circumstancesI’m sorry your tortoise is poorly! If we could get some more information from you that’d be great help for members coming along to advise

First and foremost, what species of tortoise is it you have?

Just so we’re on the same page with temperatures, what is your basking temp(directly under the bulb), overall day temps and night temps currently?
What does your humidity read?
What kind of monitoring are you using to measure temperature and humidity?

If we could get a photo of the entire set up that can sometimes be really helpful with some tips and pointers for maintaining your ambient heat etc during this time, if you can include your heating and lighting set up too that’d be great.

@zovick and @Tom can probably cover the medication recommendations better than I can, but I believe fortaz would be a good alternative to baytril, especially with the issues it caused him. But ultimately we need to double check all levels are correct for any antibiotics to work

 

[COmtnLady]

@zovick

 

[kewpie]

Thanks for your replies. He's 22, a marginated Mediterranean tortoise.

Basking temp is between 34 and 37 in the day and at night around 34 (measured before I go to bed, so I'm not sure in the night but he has a ceramic bulb on a thermostat but it's hard to say what the basking temp is as it's different than what the thermostat is set to). Humidity is between 44 and 50%.

Measuring with a gun thermometer and an ambient thermometer/humidity device.

He has been absolutely fine today after I was worried the mouth opening marked a worsening, but I've been in the room with him all day - no strange movements, not opening mouth at all, eating well, no nasal discharge or bubbles. But as keeps being the case, it gets to around 4 pm and he starts popping his head in and out of his shell and bubbles are coming out of his mouth, and he seems annoyed. This keeps happening and sometimes he goes a few days where I don't see any signs at all. So it's hard to make the call to take him into the vet when he seems normal most of the day, is eating well, and when I know taking him in did more harm than good last time.

If anyone could advise on meds that would be great. It would be good to know what I need to ask for if I need to take him in. Thank you

 

[kewpie]

Any advice on whether I can feasibly treat this at home - and how - would be much appreciated.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Thanks for your replies. He's 22, a marginated Mediterranean tortoise.

Basking temp is between 34 and 37 in the day and at night around 34 (measured before I go to bed, so I'm not sure in the night but he has a ceramic bulb on a thermostat but it's hard to say what the basking temp is as it's different than what the thermostat is set to). Humidity is between 44 and 50%.

Measuring with a gun thermometer and an ambient thermometer/humidity device.

He has been absolutely fine today after I was worried the mouth opening marked a worsening, but I've been in the room with him all day - no strange movements, not opening mouth at all, eating well, no nasal discharge or bubbles. But as keeps being the case, it gets to around 4 pm and he starts popping his head in and out of his shell and bubbles are coming out of his mouth, and he seems annoyed. This keeps happening and sometimes he goes a few days where I don't see any signs at all. So it's hard to make the call to take him into the vet when he seems normal most of the day, is eating well, and when I know taking him in did more harm than good last time.

If anyone could advise on meds that would be great. It would be good to know what I need to ask for if I need to take him in. Thank you

I am sure @zovick can advise you when he sees this.

 

[kewpie]

Just a correction: I meant bubbles are coming out of his nose, not mouth.

I also nebulised him again after this and then he's been fine again since.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks for your replies. He's 22, a marginated Mediterranean tortoise.

Basking temp is between 34 and 37 in the day and at night around 34 (measured before I go to bed, so I'm not sure in the night but he has a ceramic bulb on a thermostat but it's hard to say what the basking temp is as it's different than what the thermostat is set to). Humidity is between 44 and 50%.

Measuring with a gun thermometer and an ambient thermometer/humidity device.

He has been absolutely fine today after I was worried the mouth opening marked a worsening, but I've been in the room with him all day - no strange movements, not opening mouth at all, eating well, no nasal discharge or bubbles. But as keeps being the case, it gets to around 4 pm and he starts popping his head in and out of his shell and bubbles are coming out of his mouth, and he seems annoyed. This keeps happening and sometimes he goes a few days where I don't see any signs at all. So it's hard to make the call to take him into the vet when he seems normal most of the day, is eating well, and when I know taking him in did more harm than good last time.

If anyone could advise on meds that would be great. It would be good to know what I need to ask for if I need to take him in. Thank you

Basking temp sounds spot on, and I’m presuming the rest of the temps are fine if you’re currently using a ceramic, humidity isn’t too high., nothing is jumping out to me with your initial information, some of the symptoms you’re describing sound kind of similar to another member we have with a red foot, her symptoms seemed to mainly be in the evening too, vets weren’t ever really able to offer any conclusive answers in the end after multiple antibiotics, it kind of lessened over time I believe.

I’m hoping zovick will see this and guide you on the med front, but I’d opt for fortaz over baytil if he has to go in, hang tight for more input, hopefully he’ll see this tomorrow for you

 

[zovick]

My tortoise has had an RI for a few weeks. I've been reluctant to take him to the vet since he's still been bright and eating well, but mainly because he had another RI 5 years ago where the vet prescribed Baytril and it ended up with him having kidney damage, completely off food, completely unable to walk and then with gout. We had to rehabilitate him for months including Lego wheels to get him to be able to rebuild his strength to walk again.

I've been using F10 in a nebuliser and increased night temps but he's still got the RI and tonight has started opening his mouth, so I fear that it's now getting worse. But it feels almost guaranteed that a vet's antibiotics will bring a repeat of what happened 5 years ago. Has anyone got any advice please?

I would heartily recommend injections of ceftazidime (much safer than Baytril for tortoises). The dose is 20 mg per kilo given every other day for severe cases and every three days for less severe cases. It should be given until 6 doses have been given for severe cases and 4 doses for less severe cases.

 

[kewpie]

Thank you both for the advice.

I phoned the vet this morning and have been informed the reptile vet is no longer working there, so I'm going to try and give things a bit longer since things don't seem too severe. Before I introduced the overnight heat he would have symptoms first thing in the morning too, so I'm wondering if it's temperature dip related and may improve when the weather gets warmer (as it's starting to now in the UK). His temps do keep dipping down to 30 I've noticed so I'm going to try and partially cover his enclosure to see if that helps keeping warmth in.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you both for the advice.

I phoned the vet this morning and have been informed the reptile vet is no longer working there, so I'm going to try and give things a bit longer since things don't seem too severe. Before I introduced the overnight heat he would have symptoms first thing in the morning too, so I'm wondering if it's temperature dip related and may improve when the weather gets warmer (as it's starting to now in the UK). His temps do keep dipping down to 30 I've noticed so I'm going to try and partially cover his enclosure to see if that helps keeping warmth in.

You might hopefully find some cover options in here!

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[kewpie]

If anyone has the thread where the person had a similar problem that would be great. Any other advice for trying to treat this at home would also be great.

I have found a vet now I can go to but I'm still feeling cautious due to the reasons already described.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

If anyone has the thread where the person had a similar problem that would be great. Any other advice for trying to treat this at home would also be great.

I have found a vet now I can go to but I'm still feeling cautious due to the reasons already described.

I do! Though I’ll be honest I’m not sure how helpful you’ll find it, it’s quite a long read because it was an ongoing issue for quite a while, the symptoms aren’t necessarily the same as yours at first, but what really stuck out to me was when you described;

“it gets to around 4 pm and he starts popping his head in and out of his shell and bubbles are coming out of his mouth, and he seems annoyed. This keeps happening and sometimes he goes a few days where I don't see any signs at all”

That’s incredibly similar to what started happening with Rojita(the red foot in the thread) with seemingly no reasons why, it was very strange and all manner of things were suggested by the vets, with different tests to run, all tests for infection started coming back clear, in the end, the only possible test left to run would’ve been incredibly invasive, risky, expensive and still with the potential for no answers. Rojitas mom opted to continue as normal, and as far as I’m aware, she doesn’t have any problems these days

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