A Tortoise For School

[Floof]

Another vote for a Russian. They're very tough, which is ideal for a classroom situation. Greeks or Hermann's would also be good choices.

To those on the first page who insist that she shouldn't have any animals... I actually agree very much with Zamric's statement. With very few exceptions, you DO have to be genuinely interested in an animal to really care for it right. There are certain animals that I can't take care of properly to save my life, because they just don't command me the way certain others do. I can't keep a rat cage clean, a litter box scooped, or fish healthy. Does that mean I shouldn't have any pet at all? NO! All that means is that I shouldn't have THOSE animals. To me, keeping a pair of rats healthy or a 10 gallon fish tank clean is a million times harder than maintaining a collection of 15 or so assorted reptiles for the simple reason that rats and fish don't enthrall me the same way reptiles do.

It sounds like "Ms Smith" is truly enthralled by tortoises. With Zamric's guidance, I think she'll do GREAT.

 

[Zamric]

Thank You Floof!

When you take care of as many pet/human relationships as I do.... it takes a nak! Wish I had it! hehehe

Really, finding a pet for this teacher has been a major chore! She was raised with no pet in her home and has, till now, NEVER been interested in caring for any animals other than Humans (this she does well!). Seeing her eyes light up when she saw Eros and Gaia was well worth taking them to school!

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I was a Montessori kid, and I have many wonderful memories of interacting with my teachers' pets: bull snake, African clawed frog, and cockatiels. It would be wonderful if you could get pets into that classroom. Of course, if the pet is not properly cared for, it's going to end badly for everyone involved.

Russians don't need to hibernate, that would be my first choice.

I agree about not needing to hibernate them.

With all due respect, guys, I disagree. Not because I think that all temperate turtles always have to be hibernated, but because this year I learned that my Russian tortoises had to hibernate. That is to say, despite living indoors and in the same enclosure they had all spring and summer, come autumn they fasted and remained buried. Had I not put them in the fridge in November (a typical starting date for brumation), they would now be slowly starving during the winter. This topic has come up in other threads, so suffice it to say, tortoises like that need lots of light (and perhaps also elevated temperatures and humidity) to counteract the hibernation instinct. I know a couple people who do that successfully, but if you don't, you may find that your Russians need to brumate. At least, that is what my experience thus far has taught me about this species. I used to overwinter my boxies without problems, but I have found that I can't do the same for my Russians - at least, not so far.

Testudos, box turtles, and even redfoots to some extent are good "beginner" pets as far as terrestrial chelonians go, but I think that qualifier is very important. They should be described as, "Beginner ... for a tortoise." In other words, they are easy compared to leoparda, sulcatas, yellowfoots, radiated, or Aldabrans. However, compared to a goldfish or hamster, they are not easy. Most folks here on TFO know that, as long as you know what to do, keeping tortoises and boxies is not hard. But woe unto him who does not know what to do, because his turtles will slowly decline until they die.

Here's a suggestion. If this teacher is such a turtle fan, how about a nice pond turtle like a red-eared slider? With a sufficiently large aquarium and knowledge of how to maintain it, I think it would be easier than any tortoise or box turtle. Don't you think so?

 

[Richmond2]

Class pets don't get treated very well and a loving tortoise needs a lot of tender love an care and who will look after it in holidays I think it is a terrible idea but what do you think ?

 

[Zamric]

Ummm she not a Turtle fan... this is definatly a Tortoise thing! I belive it's also a cultural thing...

 

[zesty_17]

Is there a way for you to "lend" her the tortoise to care for during the school year "under your supervision?" Meaning that you oversee all of the health issues of the tortoise on a weekly basis and she follows your guidelines? Perhaps have the guidelines nicely framed above the enclosure that you setup for her??? Personally, I would not allow (or pretty much hand over) a tortoise to someone like this unless I were able to be directly involved in the tortoise's care, and could intervene whenever necessary.

---

OK, for those of you un-Familiar with the ways of Montessori teaching.... (at least in this school) All classrooms have a pet that the children care for under a teachers guidance. Some classrooms have many such pets... my wife's class has and aquarium and 2 birds, one room has a snake, we have several Guinnipigs and other rodents... we got most all bases covered.... with one exception!

we have a teacher (we'll call her Ms Smith) that has had problems with every pet under her care. She is from China and sees ALL rodents (or anything with a long hairy tail) as RATS, See has killed off several hundred dollars worth of fish, Hermit Crabs lasted 1 year in her classroom and her current pets (2 finches donated by a family in her class) are way loud for her classroom.

On Monday when I brought Eros and Gaia to school to show them off, her eyes lit up and she was in love. She even explained the facination with Tortoises in her homeland and she used to visit the Temple just to see the Aldebras living there. I idea hit me like a ton of bricks! I've been lookin' for the perfect pet for her room for about 5 years now! I went to the Head of School and told her the situation (she is VERY aware of Ms. Smith animal avertion) and got permission to get Ms Smith a tortoise if she was interested... when I told her today of my actions and the Directors dissition, she was beside herself and even hugged me (Very out of charictor for this very subdued person!)

This is what I have for long term keeping. An outdoor enclosure that is 4'x8' that used to be used by a box tortoise a couple of years ago. It is very shady during the summer because of the tree that is growing in it (the enclosure was built around the tree) It has high walls (3' tall) made from heavy plastisized rubber and looks like a Trellis.

Indoor inclosures will have to be built by me and I think I can handle the husbandry for all of it.

My question to you all is what kind of tortoise would go well in a classroom of Lower Elementary children (7-10 years old)?

It will be inside the class most of the time but will have plenty of outside time but never unattended. Since it will be a classroom pet all year long, Hybernation is not an option.

I was thinking about a redfoot or a cherryhead but am afraid they might get to big for classroom care. Russian and Hermanns need to hybernate.

Any ideas? I know Ms Smith is very excited about the prospects of a tortoise in her room but I want to make sure it is the right tortoise for the right circumstances.

this may be mean, and overly stereotypical, but my first thoughts were... "she won't want to eat it will she?" Some people just aren't animal people.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Ummm she not a Turtle fan... this is definatly a Tortoise thing! I belive it's also a cultural thing...

I realize that. It is not surprising, and even endearing, but my advice is not to house a tortoise or box turtle in a classroom.

Growing up, my mother was a teacher and since I was always a "turtle guy," we did discuss putting a box turtle in her classroom. However, after going over the logistics, it quickly became apparent that a terrestrial chelonian in her classroom would probably not do well. For one thing, even if provided with all the heating and lighting equipment, feeding it is as much an art as it is a science. Moreover, all those kids can really stress out an animal. And then there is the issue of vacations (I know you discussed that above, but it's one more variable in the care of this animal if it has to be relocated every few months).

Keeping torties and boxies is a lot like gardening; some people have a knack for it, some don't, and unless you know what to do, the creature relying on you could decline.

Also, I wonder about liability issues with having a turtle in a classroom. We here on TFO know how silly it is to worry about Salmonella in a healthy animal, but the laws on the books still say that people can contract this potentially dangerous bacterium from turtles. And indeed, it is a good idea to wash your hands after handling a reptile or bird for that reason. If the animal is not properly cared for, then not only will it become ill, but it could make the children sick, too, if they touch it and then put their fingers in their mouth.

Putting a tortoise in that classroom could work, and it would be educational, but it also has a high likelihood of failure. If it were my decision, I would err on the side of caution, and elect to keep that class tortoise-less.

 

[Zamric]

I understand your objections, and even agree with most of them!

But this tortoise will not be going into this classroom un-supervised. I walk the Halls constantly. This teacher has a bad history with pets. I know it and more inportantly, her supervisor knows it as well. She (her supervisor)is also a Sulcata owner and knows the respocibilities involved. My wife Cathie is in the classroom 3 doors down, and she (Cathie) raise WalkingRock in her classroom for the 1st 5 years of his life (from day 2 of hatching).

When Montessori Teachers go thru training they know that animal husbandry is expected in most Motessori schools. In our school it is most definatly Manditory! With this teacher, it has always been.... well... difficult.

The reason I think this will work and the ONLY reason is She shows interest (never before) and I have plenty of back up with Cathie and the supervisor. The Tortoise will never be in danger and I might find somthing Ms Smith is interested in preserving.

In these classrooms, a child will spend 3 years (in this one it will be grades 1-3). The children come and go but the Teacher and the Pet she cares for makes the room unique. Ms Smith has a very bland classroom almost to a steril point. The hope is that this toroise will help stimulate the Teacher as well as the children.

 

[terryo]

Ummm she not a Turtle fan... this is definatly a Tortoise thing! I belive it's also a cultural thing...

I realize that. It is not surprising, and even endearing, but my advice is not to house a tortoise or box turtle in a classroom.

Growing up, my mother was a teacher and since I was always a "turtle guy," we did discuss putting a box turtle in her classroom. However, after going over the logistics, it quickly became apparent that a terrestrial chelonian in her classroom would probably not do well. For one thing, even if provided with all the heating and lighting equipment, feeding it is as much an art as it is a science. Moreover, all those kids can really stress out an animal. And then there is the issue of vacations (I know you discussed that above, but it's one more variable in the care of this animal if it has to be relocated every few months).

Keeping torties and boxies is a lot like gardening; some people have a knack for it, some don't, and unless you know what to do, the creature relying on you could decline.

Also, I wonder about liability issues with having a turtle in a classroom. We here on TFO know how silly it is to worry about Salmonella in a healthy animal, but the laws on the books still say that people can contract this potentially dangerous bacterium from turtles. And indeed, it is a good idea to wash your hands after handling a reptile or bird for that reason. If the animal is not properly cared for, then not only will it become ill, but it could make the children sick, too, if they touch it and then put their fingers in their mouth.

Putting a tortoise in that classroom could work, and it would be educational, but it also has a high likelihood of failure. If it were my decision, I would err on the side of caution, and elect to keep that class tortoise-less.

Sadly, I agree with this post. There are many other ways for children to learn about animals. We have a children's zoo here with many class room tours, with hands-on teaching. I never believed in class room animals. Maybe it's because through the years I've taken in many box turtles that were in a cold, 10 gal tank eating lettuce for years, with deformed shells. I respect everyone's opinion....this is just mine.

 

[Zamric]

I promise not to keep it in a cold, 10 gal tank and feed it lettuse!

and animals in the classroom is the Montessori way.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I promise not to keep it in a cold, 10 gal tank and feed it lettuse!

and animals in the classroom is the Montessori way.

Yep, animals in the classroom is the Montessori way. My little sister was in the same Montessori school I was. She got to watch the class bull snake prey on mice. One day he actually escaped, and everyone had assumed that he was either gone or dead, until they found him in the spring trying to warm up under the radiator - apparently he had spent the winter brumating somewhere. In my own class, we used to take care of two cockatiels (until they flew away one summer from the person who was keeping them ... case in point).

However, even with the great experience you and your wife have, in the end this tortoise would be under the care of someone else, and by the looks of it, someone who doesn't really have a way with animals.

I think fish, amphibians, snakes, and rodents make better classroom pets than turtles or birds, because they are much lower maintenance. Coincidentally, those are all animals that this particular teacher seems to find creepy. Why did they even hire a non-animal person if it is so critical that there be animals in the classroom?

 

[Zamric]

We have a snake corn snake that has excaped twice in 4 years.

We have 5 classrooms with birds, 3 of these classroom accually allow the bird to fly around the room.

If she leaves the school, she will have the option of taking her pet with her to another School. Hopfully I'll have her well trained before she leaves this school for another.

She was hired knowing she had to care for animals but having never been introduced to pets as a child, had no idea what was involved, how many differant pets there was or how many she might find obnoxious (rodents).

In the USA, MOST households have a pet of some sort or another, one reason animal husbandry is part of every classroom in this Montessori School. In her contry of origin, pets are not common UNLESS their is a status symbol related to it. Most pets we have in the USA are considered a food source in her country or concidered pest (rodents of all kinds). The Tortoise has LOTS of Status in her country of origin. This will/has given her the desire to care for a Tortoise. (only recently concidered a pet in the USA, compaired to dogs or cats)

YOU CAN NOT CARE FOR A PET PROPERLY THAT YOU HAVE NO DESIRE TO CARE FOR! She has always been forced to maintain pets she finds disgusting or revolting or she just has no respect for(fish). You would not ask a person who hated snakes to care for snakes. No matter how hard they try, they will never be a snake handler and the snakes would suffer because of that. On the other hand, if you have a love and facination with snakes, your charges will thrive and be happy healthy snakes. It's all a matter of pairing the pet with the keeper, or in this case, a keeper to a pet.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

We have a snake corn snake that has excaped twice in 4 years.

We have 5 classrooms with birds, 3 of these classroom accually allow the bird to fly around the room.

If she leaves the school, she will have the option of taking her pet with her to another School. Hopfully I'll have her well trained before she leaves this school for another.

She was hired knowing she had to care for animals but having never been introduced to pets as a child, had no idea what was involved, how many differant pets there was or how many she might find obnoxious (rodents).

In the USA, MOST households have a pet of some sort or another, one reason animal husbandry is part of every classroom in this Montessori School. In her contry of origin, pets are not common UNLESS their is a status symbol related to it. Most pets we have in the USA are considered a food source in her country or concidered pest (rodents of all kinds). The Tortoise has LOTS of Status in her country of origin. This will/has given her the desire to care for a Tortoise. (only recently concidered a pet in the USA, compaired to dogs or cats)

YOU CAN NOT CARE FOR A PET PROPERLY THAT YOU HAVE NO DESIRE TO CARE FOR! She has always been forced to maintain pets she finds disgusting or revolting or she just has no respect for(fish). You would not ask a person who hated snakes to care for snakes. No matter how hard they try, they will never be a snake handler and the snakes would suffer because of that. On the other hand, if you have a love and facination with snakes, your charges will thrive and be happy healthy snakes. It's all a matter of pairing the pet with the keeper, or in this case, a keeper to a pet.

They used to let our cockatiels fly around the classroom, too. They would often crash into objects and windows and fall down. Sad. That's why I don't keep birds.

Forgot to mention, the teacher with the bull snake also had a lop-eared rabbit. He was very cute. He lived in an outdoor hutch most of the year, but they brought him indoors for the winter.

Yeah, I get it, this teacher only likes tortoises. No need to "shout" in all-caps. She probably would not want to care for a rabbit, either. I understand. It's just silly to hire a person for a job in which animal husbandry is required, when the person is unwilling to care for animals, unless they are status symbols.

You can donate a tortoise to this classroom if you want, and maybe it will even work out. But when I faced a similar decision years ago, I thought it would be too risky, and elected not to do it. You asked which tortoise we would place in that classroom, and my advice is, "None." The rest is up to you.

 

[Zamric]

Thank you for your opinion. I really am concidering all points of view and you make a really good argument for not having a tortoise in class.

 

[zesty_17]

i vote she get a hamster, or a rat.

 

[Zamric]

if you are voting for a hamster or a rat, you obviously have not read this whole thread! or even my last couple of post....

 

[mango x]

Here's an idea : if you decide a tort isn't the right thing, you could sponsor an animal as a class. You will usually get a lot of information on the animal, monthly updates on what the animal has been doing and a cuddly toy. Just a suggestion though.

 

[Zamric]

all classrooms are required to maintain a living pet, in the classroom, just like most kids have to do at home. This teach respociblity for another life other than Human.

Teachers get to chose the pet that their class will take care of but is ultimatly the respocibility of the teacher. This teach originally chose fish, thinking they where easy. (as I mentioned earlier, this teacher was never introduced to pets as a child and chose a pet she thought would care for itself).

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

all classrooms are required to maintain a living pet, in the classroom, just like most kids have to do at home. This teach respociblity for another life other than Human.

Teachers get to chose the pet that their class will take care of but is ultimatly the respocibility of the teacher. This teach originally chose fish, thinking they where easy. (as I mentioned earlier, this teacher was never introduced to pets as a child and chose a pet she thought would care for itself).

Oh, I thought she didn't like fish, either. Sounds like she just needs to learn how to maintain a fish tank.

Fish aren't that hard, but you have to know what to do. With a fish tank, if you keep fish that are compatible with each other at the right temperature, feed the right food in the right amounts, and do water changes at least once a month, then you're golden.

If someone coached her on which fish to get, what to feed them and how much, and showed her how to change the water every now and then, she would be able to keep fish successfully.

For this person, big predatory cichlids and arawanas are out of the question. Unfortunately. However, if she had a 10, 20, or 30 gallon tank with some nice community fish (guppies, platies, swordtails, maybe some tetras and cory catfish) and knew how to care for them, she would do fine.

 

[Zamric]

In my OP, I stated that she has already killed off a couple of hundred dollars in fish (guppies, mollies,neons, pocastimus, gold fish of all sizes) in a 20 gal tank. She has been mentored and shown everything she needs to know about BASIC fish tanks. Problem is SHE DOES NOT CARE TO CARE FOR FISH . They are an interuption of her time. the kids can feed but 1-3rd graders can not tend the tank and she refuses to tend the tank (it requires her to put her hands in what she precives as dirty water that "Things" live and poop in)! She just is not INTERESTED.... (she only chose fish because she thought they take care of themselfs aside from feeding)